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SsSsSnake Registered User (1/6/04 1:39 am) Reply	ex monks please? do any of the ex monks know of this? In sum, to say one needs a true guru, which I will repeat unto my death, only means to say you need to know what the real purpose of life is (the expansion of self into the infinite Self) and learn the method that works in accomplishing this--and you know it works because it worked for someone else, and that someone else, the guru, proved it by dematerializing the body at will. Sri Yuktesvar displayed that power for Paramahansa Yogananda, his disciple, and Paramahansa Yogananda displayed it before Brother Bhimalananda. Paramahansaji's incorruptibility upon his consciously leaving the body was further proof so that it would not be said that true teachings require any blind faith.
xmonk Registered User (1/6/04 5:36 am) Reply	Re: ex monks please? Please be advised, SsSsSnake, that those stories abound in SRF, and are classic urban legends. Some advice would be to believe what you see....don't see what you want to believe. All cults and religions have these stories of magic to inspire their followers to stand in awe and believe that they are unworthy, therefore needing what is being offered by these groups/men/organizations. You are a child of God. You are loved unconditionally by Him. You need only approach Him personally...one-on-one...any time, or any place you so desire. Those who would try to make you feel otherwise, by purporting to be God's chosen and have come here to save your unworthy hide, are nothing more than fakirs in a carnival. Their goal in life is to maintain a following who will keep them in the style to which they would like to become accustomed. It works, too. Look around you and see those people doing their work all over the Earth. When one finally sheds himself of those people and the organizations that help to prop them up, he will finally feel the freedom and peace that he has been seeking. Edited by: xmonk at: 1/6/04 5:38 am
dawnrays Registered User (1/6/04 6:16 am) Reply	Re: ex monks please? Wow, more pearls of wisdom from xmonk.... And where did you learn THAT xmonk? Seems a little reminiscent of the teachings to me... If there's anything I cannot bear, it's bitter, maladjusted xmonastics coming on the board to trash thier guru because their little srf ego trips did not pan out (I am also referring to previous posts and "pearls of wisdom" from you).. It is ungrateful, sickening and not very inspiring to me... I never liked or had much use for the phony and sanctimonious airs of many of the monastics when I was in srf, now I find my opinion hasn't changed much... You keep the cult going by your ignorance and kissing up and then you want a medal pinned on for all of your sanctimonious and sickening bitching when you leave... Sorry, but try to shed the "victom" role a little. I you really can't find anything nice to say, move along. There's a whole, perfect world waiting for you! Remember? That's why you went in!
etzchaim Registered User (1/6/04 6:41 am) Reply	Re: ex monks please? I think what matters in a Guru is that you can learn how to move toward an awakening of you own consciousness and Higher Self, towards manifesting God within your self. All else is just the icing on the cake, don't eat too much of it, and try to get a healthy version. Too much sugar is bad for your teeth. It's more important to figure out who you are are and work from there, rather than worry about whether your Guru can dematerialize or not, some day you might be able to and then it won't matter. If you can dematerialize and your still a bad teacher, then I guess we might need to rethink this whole business. Hmmmm....bitchiness is in the air....it's all done with mirrors, I suspect. Etz, feeling obscure. The Universe is expanding, y'know... Edited by: etzchaim at: 1/6/04 6:47 am
dawnrays Registered User (1/6/04 6:41 am) Reply	Re: ex monks please? One on one, unconditional love.. the first time I ever even HEARD words like this was through the lessons... You are incredible.. You continously come here and attempt to try to hang Master by his own words... Are you REALLY that far into your own ego trip that you believe you invented this and that you learned it "directly from God" with no help or intervention from anybody? I find this really, reallly disturbing and incredible... Do by all means move on...
SsSsSnake Registered User (1/6/04 9:59 am) Reply	Re: ex monks please? thankyou but did anyone know Brother Bhimalananda. ?
etzchaim Registered User (1/6/04 10:29 am) Reply	Re: ex monks please? I was under the impression that Yoga was not a religion, and did not require faith, being a practice that any person of any faith, or lack there of, may do. People coming from Christian backgrounds or from a rationalistic doubt orientation, may be assisted by the use of miracles, particularly when Yoga was new in the US and still very foreign, but miracles in and of themselves do not constitute Realization, and people do choose to 'believe in miracles' or to not believe. Also, I question the need for 'dematerializing' to 'prove' that Yoga works. What does someone elses ability to disappear have to do with my enlightenment? I want to know if this person can help me grow spiritually and if they have wisdom, goodness and integrity in them. In fact, I'm in a subculture that would look down on someone using miracles to convince others that their way is the 'truth'. The Torah actually warns against this. Personally, I also find it offensive, which is why I don't like SRF's orientation of emphasizing the siddhis. It's spiritually 'crass', so to speak, and think it may have been necessary in the 20's and 30's, but not today. I'm of the opinion that the creation of a religion of Yoga has caused much more havoc than good. It's about Consciousness and Self-Realization, of us, in our own personal lives right now, not Miracle Men and fantastic, out of this world, experiences. I didn't realize you wanted people who knew a particular brother. It sounded like you were making a statement about the use of Siddhis, so I'll back out after this post. Edited by: etzchaim at: 1/6/04 11:08 am
SsSsSnake Registered User (1/6/04 12:17 pm) Reply	Re: ex monks please? Sorry etz I pasted the quote from sankaram's site and i wondered if anyone knew that monk thats all .ie to verify that statement. thanks anyway
etzchaim Registered User (1/6/04 1:13 pm) Reply	Re: ex monks please? Ah, yes, I have some definate disagreements with Sankaram, so I'm shutting up now...
xmonk Registered User (1/6/04 2:16 pm) Reply	Re: ex monks please? Obviously, Dawnrays, you have a very mouthy demeanor. You have cut others down, besides myself, for expressing our first hand experiences with SRF and Company. You have had no meaningful comeback, except for being very mouthy. Actually, you are talking like the bitchy nuns at Mt Washington. I really suspect that you are a plant for SRF to downplay and negate anything that might be said, here, that might be derrogatory to them. So, go ahead and play your foolish games. Those who are capable of thinking can see right through you. I truly feel sorry for you. Give my best to the other nuns at Mother Center.
SsSsSnake Registered User (1/6/04 2:53 pm) Reply	Re: ex monks please? Etz please let me hear your thoughts on Sarakanam as he seems to know everything there is to know about kriya pranayama and religious history lol so please fire away
dawnrays Registered User (1/6/04 2:53 pm) Reply	Re: ex monks please? I have given ALOT more information here than you have the balls to.... It really makes up for my many years of having to sit through boring lectures, watching sour, uptight monks (like yourself, so sorry it didn't work out...) getting fawned over, to actually tell one of you "spiritual" creeps what I actually think of you.. There is NO DOUBT in my mind that if good old MC called you and told you that you had your own temple to "preach to" like you laughingly attempt to do here, you would be over there like a shot... I guess they are just as fed up with your sorry axx as I am... Edited by: dawnrays at: 1/8/04 11:34 pm
History Buff 2002 Registered User (1/7/04 2:45 am) Reply	Re: Tone of the board Anyone want to join me in making a plea for civility on the board? Things have taken a turn toward angry spats, it seems to me. Is this really what we are here for?
dawnrays Registered User (1/7/04 5:47 am) Reply	Personal Beliefs History, As far as I'm concerned, a personal belief structure which involves, yoga, a guru and a set of teachings, falls into the category of somebody's own, personal business. These constant pot shots and unending attacks on people's personal belief structures, which have nothing to do with the srf structure and are outside of it and not harming anyone (and probably doing alot of good) have got to stop. Attacks, insults and condescending, superior mannerisms towards such is not known as "freedom of religion" or freedom at all. It is no different from attacking someone's personal belief in Jesus, Buddah, Tao or even atheism. May I remind some of our readers and writers that Master has been out of the body for some fifty years and has nothing to do with the current srf "power structure?" If some persons think that the so called "bad ladies" are getting a bum rap, it is because anybody who has been closely or losely associated with srf, knows that NOTHING get's done or accomplished, right down to the details, without permission from MC... Also, exmonastics here are no longer in the ashram. What they have to say is no more weighty or important than what anybody else has to say. If they cannot respect another persons personal belief structure or do not agree, perhaps they should keep this information to themselves.. It is none of their business and not all of us worshipped daya mata. It is no longer thier right or job to tell devottees what to believe, how to belief, whether or not to worship or what to worship... One of the most valid critisisms of people in srf and monastics and the very closely associated in particular, is a lack of social skills. Openly critisizing and insulting or otherwise using superior and condesceNding language towards another persons spiritual life, would fall very neatly into that category... I highly doubt if any of these persons would have the balls to go into a Christian church or even up to a neighbor or friend to do the same... and most people believe in SOMETHING. I don't understand why it is so common here.
History Buff 2002 Registered User (1/7/04 11:15 am) Reply	Re: Tone of the posts Dawnrays, I would not think one could object to the content of the recent posts, including those you have contributed and those that you object to. And one can certainly understand the need to express anger, frustration, and so forth. Perhaps, however, the tone could reflect what used to be called "good manners." This is a matter, one might argue, of choosing words that are not in themselves inflammatory and recognizing differences of experience and opinion. One might also acknowledge that not all devotees, yogis, monastics or ex-monastics are alike, in the same way that not all members of one particular race are alike. This is just a suggestion for your consideration. I can imagine that you would want readers to give real thought to what you say, rather than confusing your message with your method of expressing it. One would gain little by transforming "Oprah" into the "Jerry Springer Show."
dawnrays Registered User (1/7/04 11:32 am) Reply	Re: Tone of the posts Hi History, If you are referring to my post to xmonk, yes, I meant EXACTLY what I said pretty much. Yes, I do know what you mean by "good manners". I have wasted such on him on many, many other occasions. I get your point about not all xmonks and nuns being alike. I realize this. However, I have noticed that a rather narrow minded outlook, whether in srf or out of it, is very, very common to such. So much so, it is worthy of comment. Also a tendency to preach "doctrines". Nowadays, it seems to be atheism or some such.. Before srf against the world, now we are in the world, all forms of religeous worship are suddenly mind numbing, brain washing. I don't agree with this concept and I refuse to listen to it based on somebody's bitter experience in an ashram environment. Bitter, unhappy experiences and disappointments are common to all people in all walks of life, I'm afraid. Nobody has the lowdown on suffering and/or wisdom.
etzchaim Registered User (1/7/04 2:15 pm) Reply	Re: ex monks please? "Etz please let me hear your thoughts on Sarakanam as he seems to know everything there is to know about kriya pranayama and religious history lol so please fire away" It's difficult to sum up properly. He's obsessed with proving the his Guru is superior to all other Gurus because he can 'regrow a severed arm' (I would really like to know if someone chopped off Yogananda's arm and watched him grow it back. In fact, I wish I could have been there so I could ask both of them why) and other such amazing and utterly useless siddhi tricks and seems to revel in casting his judgment against other traditions, Guru's and teachers so much that I suspect him of having a severe inferiority complex, because I can't understand why a Yogi would spend his time doing this. There is a fascinating letter on his website that is positively a diatribe attacking another mans Guru with such fervor and 'my Guru would do this, my Guru would do that, and regrow the severed arm and float in the air and never blink and your Guru is not this and not that and can't do this and can't do that'. It was quite strange and perplexing to me. His understanding of Mahayana Buddhism was also quite fascinating - in that he interprets the Bodhisattva as a false doctrine because 'true Spiritual Masters' do not need to give up their enlightenment and can incarnate fully enlightened because 'his Guru did', so Tibetan Buddhism is false. Odd, I thought, and I do indeed find this odd, because I have met several Tibetan Monks, including the Dalai Lama, because I helped a group of them settle in Chicago. I sponsered a young woman in the group. These are truly some highly developed souls and Sankaranam is clearly not understanding something and fascinating as his statements are, he might wish to sit and comtemplate some more before writing. He's also fascinated by the idea that Yogi's don't blink. This entertained me for several days, I'm not kidding. In his mind, if you encounter a person who doesn't blink, that means they are a Master. Well, again, I thought, 'odd'. I once watched Rajneesh being interviewed and in the entire interview, he didn't blink. Now, I try not to be judgmental, but I do not consider Rajneesh to be a Master. I don't consider many people to be a Master, though... so not blinking falls into the category of 'interesting phenomena caused by meditating' and not a sign of being a Master, whatever that is. I get really wary when people make a habit of focusing on the legitmacy of their own Guru to the detriment of another persons Guru, or the 'truth' of their own form of 'religion' or 'spiritual path' to the detriment of other forms. This strikes me more as a form of self-building for a wobbley ego (and I think a healthy ego is vital for any person wanting to progress spiritually) and not the product of a firm grasp of 'truth'. It's not that I think that there aren't false teachers, teachings and wacky religions out there, but something about the need to 'prove' seems unbalanced to me. Most people are not in a place where it is necessary to have a 'perfect Guru' and when we are at that level, we find them or they find us. Call me a dreamer! It seems more useful for most people to find someone or some path that you feel you are actually relating to and learning from and don't worry so much about other people unless they say 'hey, I relate to you, can you worry about me?' or some other such permission. There is also something very strange about the fascination with siddhis that do nothing apparent to educate the disciple about how to work with the teachings and techniques to uncover their own truth and connection to God. Again, it strikes me as odd, and I cannot help but wonder what it is that is causing this interesting fascination. It is true that certain siddhis can open up the 3rd eye or the heart chakra, and this may be important initially to get a person started, but I've had the same experience simply by falling in love. It was the practice of the teachings that took me further. I do think that Sankaranam is a sincere Yogi, so I suspect that his more interesting side, which is very intriguing in and of itself, will fade at some point, to be replaced by a stronger, less strident version and he will find God and be happy, whether or not someone chops off his arm and he can grow it back. I'm not sure it would be OK to wish the chance of regrowing his arm upon him, so I refrain. Edited by: etzchaim at: 1/7/04 2:37 pm
username Registered User (1/7/04 3:47 pm) Reply	"dawnspeak" "One of the most valid critisisms of people in srf and monastics and the very closely associated in particular, is a lack of social skills. Openly critisizing and insulting or otherwise using superior and condesceNding language towards another persons spiritual life, would fall very neatly into that category..." Are you sure that you aren't spending too much time with SRF? Be careful - sometimes their ways rub off on you. Edited by: username at: 1/7/04 3:49 pm
dawnrays Registered User (1/7/04 4:07 pm) Reply	to username... I have never insulted, either directly or indirectly through insulting and condescending language, anybody's spiritual beliefs or practices on this board, ever... I have certainly had to defend my own quite a bit, or even the right to have one it seems to me... I have let alot of completely outrageous and unfounded, profoundly insulting comments and innuendos go by about Master, before I finally said something... Something that would have been unthinkable to let go by in my srf days... Many persons do not feel the same love and arduor for the path that they once did, this is apparent and understandable. However, there is a big difference between this and total disrespect and contempt for other people's spiritual beliefs... You, username, it seems to me, make a point to complain about just about everything, and jump on the bandwagon for any and all sorts of negativity... I'm sorry if this is your attitude, but I don't find it superior to mine nor am I the least bit envious of yours or xmonks...
SayItIsntSo Registered User (1/7/04 5:27 pm) Reply	Re: to username... Hi Dawnrays, I joined Walrus a few years ago, but got lam blasted (flamed) and ran for the hills... . I only just came back because my skin is much thicker. Sometimes going backwards a bit helps a person go forward. I've addressed many aspects of my life in the past years, but have never entirely reconciled my leaving SRF, the teachings and losing my faith. Many here stayed with their Guru when they left SRF. I didn't. Four years ago, I packed all of SRF into a plastic box...one of those HUGE ones. But here's why, besides the story I told about the gossip flying around one of the temples... No one called when we stopped going. After a few incidents at the temple, I pulled away. At first not as a conscious choice to stop going, just, needed to get away. Nothing. Silence. Months went by. Now, I (and my husband) were very active, knew many monastics, etc., gave them lots of money, worked convocation...etc. We both served in a local temple. But though we left, no one noticed, and so we stayed gone. I think, in my heart, had anyone from the organization called us, the way a caring minister might do for his congregation, I wouldn't have left. Seriously. Why wouldn't a minster wonder about missing flock? From the silence I came to re-evaluate my relationship with this church. The more time went by, and the more I heard nothing, the more I realized that (it seemed) that I was cloying for attention in an organazation that wasn't going to give it. Both of us (husband) were serving...in positions that had to be refilled, and yet nothing from the minister. Silence. This is not my idea of "fellowship." One member called about the position I held and she said, "There are other people who would be grateful to serve," and she hung up! Then I spent a long time reprogramming myself not to "pray" or "sing chants" in my head. Man, was that hard! If I'd think "Master, this or that," I'd say, "NO!" I really was brainwashed. I left a job where a devotee was my boss. I had to get away from SRF and anyone associated with it. I wanted nothing to do with it... Many things are much clearer to me now, mainly, I'd like to say that our own needs are very important in life. When one is involved with SRF on a daily basis our own needs can be viewed as ego, when in reality taking care of ourselves should be #1. I don't believe PY ever intended for certain aspects of his teachings to over shadow others aspects. And in the wrong hands any power can be essentially evil. I do believe that members who attended temple services day in and day out two times a week, and listen to "spins" on the teachings through monastics, are entirely in a different place in their experiences than members who do things via mail and attend a yearly convocation. The smartest devotees are those who only showed up for Kriya ceremonies and then disappeared immediately. I think this board can help members who are confused about where they've come from or are going if they can take another person's situation and get a perspective. The lam blasting of PY or the SRF institution comes from the welling of emotions that we've all struggled to contain. Behind the veil of these postings, many can finally air their emotions. The problem with postings is we lack "tone" or "inflection" or the way we might discuss something in person. Even PY said, "Wise men discuss, and fools argue."
soulcircle Registered User (1/8/04 1:20 am) Reply	Good deed Well done!! Hello Guests and All, dawnrays: *Quote:* I have never insulted, either directly or indirectly through insulting and condescending language, anybody's spiritual beliefs or practices on this board, ever... what you have done, if I may cite one example, is insulted YellowBeard420 personally calling him a "pathetic wimp." And if I may point out to you what some of us here see, you are externalizing the pain in your own life, or more simply, what you say about someone being a wimp is not about them It is clear to me and others here because we too, are hurt and lash out at others when our desires are thwarted or our peace disturbed. At this time of New Year I join you in rededicating our life to bettering ourselves and accepting much about us and others! At this moment I join you in rededicating our time on this board in being grateful for it and yes, thank you SRF Walrus for being a gift to the world. Good deed well done! At this moment I join you in dedicating our time on this board in doing good deeds, and embracing each other, etzchaim, xmonk, username and all I am a fool and not a wise man, but with your help I can be a wise man occasionally and fool some of you, a brief laugh was called for, don't you agree? Pathetic wimps and fools ashram---aka friends and Dave

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