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chela2020 Registered User (3/14/03 2:46 pm) Reply	Moved to another thread (This message was left blank) Edited by: chela2020 at: 7/1/03 4:53 pm
chrisparis Registered User (3/14/03 2:48 pm) Reply	Re: Thank you redpurusha If I may add on here, the book "God is a Verb" By Rabbi David Cooper is outstanding. I mean Outstanding!! Two enthusiastic thumbs up.
stermejo Registered User (3/14/03 5:49 pm) Reply	Re: Now I am free Hi, I REALLY am nobody. The nobody who replies to your posts. I'd agree, you must be a teenage male. That said, I should be shooting myself in the foot instead of replying. BUT, here goes; you made a major error in judgement hashing out your mental health issues with any religious monastic. What you need to do is contact a certified mental health professional in your community and follow their good advice. Get the burning anger out of your system. That once done, you will be FREE. Beyond doing that, all this Hubbard, Yogananda, "I'm going to shatter your illusions" stuff is a waste of time.
MastersChela Registered User (3/14/03 8:31 pm) Reply	hubbard/yogananda I feel like everybody read a post I didn't read... Did fork explain his comparison then delete it? If so, what was said? I didn't ask the question to attack him, I really wanted to know how someone could make that comparison.
stermejo Registered User (3/15/03 6:59 pm) Reply	Re: hubbard/yogananda MC, It wasn't that fork "explained" anything. I went back over the posts and find them going all over the place. Seems VERY angry. Spent all of two years chatting it up with who knows at Mother Center. Trying to "get in." Then was cut off. Now this person is ticked and thinks they've got the full skinny on SRF and who knows who else. Sounds like nonsense. But yes, here's a brother or sister who needs some help. I'm suggesting they get it from the proper sources. As ALL of us know, Mother Center is NOT equipped to handle psychological problems8-). Heaven forbid! In suggesting that forkhand get some qualified help from a mental health professional, I was NOT being sarcastic. I speak as a concerned brother. Yes, I have been a bit chipper with some of my other posts. BUT, I truly feel forkhand could benefit from that advice. It's clear from the posts this is an angry individual. The condition may only be the result of being jacked around by M Center. As we now know, you can never tell who you are really talking to at the other end of the phone. But then again, maybe forkhand had issues before coming to investigate SRF. As for my own experience, I had been turned down from study at another esoteric school not SRF. I'm sure had I applyed to SRF at that time in my life, they would have turned me down, too. So, I CAN understand forkhand's situation and even the anger. I am only trying to warn against that anger. I'd do anything within my limited power to help. Life is too short to remain angry throughout. As for my "clown kachina" comment: It's a well known fact that some older cultures and myths use the clown character as a type of foil for the almighty gods. I see forkhand as possibly trying to fullfill that type of role. But I submit that forkhand has a lot more dues to pay than two years of niggling at Mother Center's tit.
forkhand Registered User (3/16/03 2:22 am) Reply	Re: hubbard/yogananda At first there were few replies so i assumed that people didn't visit here much often. It seems a lot of assuming goes on around here. Well, what do ya know - i was wrong. I can admit to being wrong, doesn't take much. No i am not a teenager. I used to be. And i have nothing against gay people apart from using the issue in a light-hearted joking way. Really, is religious comedy too much for you? YOu need to take it easy. I submit that my Hubbard comparison was a stab in the dark. I didn't mean to offend anyone with that idea, as i respect Yogananda and there is clearly a great difference between the two individuals. I didn't come here to convert people but merely to lend some interest in things. It has been suggested that i am a very angry person even though i said quite explicitly that i wasn't angry at all. Infer what you will. About the mental health thing. I have a mental health problem and in no way did i think that SRF or any monastic could help me in that field. When you read things like, 'Undreamed-of possibilities' and you have less than a good existence, it suddenley makes you want to experience these possibilities, regardless of any label you may have. To suggest i need MORE than 2 years to get a good feel for what SRF is is quite honestly ludicrus and a waste of breath (and insulting). But it would make sense for a person without a diagnoses and a great deal of emtional pain to suggest to someone like me that i need to seek professional medical advice. IT fits like the last piece in a jigsaw puzzle. Very sweet. I enjoyed the postings about Kabalah and similarities with Yoga. One of the things that attracts me to this webboard is the honesty and rationality of some of the writers. They have intellects extraordinaire. Of course, it would be very easy to criticise me and what i have to say when nitpicking. You should get the overall picture and listen to the things i say rather than feeling the things i say and reacting in any offhand manner. My stance on saints remains the same - show me a saint and i'll show you God. Otherwise, stop complaining and being less than what you claim to be (or aspire to be). PLease cast the first stone who is 100% sane. Yogananda was very inspiring to me. He taught me a lot and i agree with many things he says. He taught love, compassion, child-like behaviour, brotherhood, on and so on. I respect his International Patriotism and love of humanity. He was beautiful, intelligent and had a sense of humour. His poetry is lovely. I can tell you what i believe but it will not change you nor would i want it to change you. About the yugas. My astrology is non-existent so i cannot comment on the science behind it or Yukteswars comments. There is a nice thread somewhere in Walrus that deals more with that side of things. All i can say is that there seems to be disagreement on the matter. I have also seen some comments here and there on Gandhi and Yogananda and kriya. I have respect for Gandhi also. He must be admired. Here i want to quote a little from George Orwell and see what you make of it. (no doubt even he is in for some major critical abuse but here goes:-) 'In this yogi-ridden age, it is too readily assumed that "non-attachment" is not only better than a full acceptance of earthly life, but that the ordinary man only rejects it because it is too difficult: in other words, that the average human being is a failed saint. It is doubtful whether this is true. Many people genuinely do not wish to be saints, and it is probable that some who achieve or aspire to sainthood have never felt much temptation to be human beings. If one could follow it to its psychological roots, one would, i believe, find that the main motive for "non-attachement" is a desire to escape from the pain of living, and above all from love, which, sexual or non-sexual, is hard work. But it is not necessary here to argue whether the other-wordly or the humanistic ideal is "higher". The point is that they are incompatible. One must choose between God and Man, and all "radicals" and "progressives", from the mildest Liberal to the most extreme Anarchist, have in effect chosen Man.' Edited by: forkhand at: 3/21/03 9:13:07 am
stermejo Registered User (3/16/03 4:21 pm) Reply	Re: hubbard/yogananda Blah, blah, blah, Bubba! YOU are first person to reply to me. Lucky you. So, hang on sucka'! What's up with the Shakespere comparison? Yes, there IS a lot of ASSuming going here as in I assume you're a Limey, allright Jack:-)? Man, I would NEVER compare PY to Shakespere. You and I can agree whole heartedly on this. Emotinal pain? Have you read the "ODE to the Bagavad Gita" at the end of God Talks to Arjuna? Well, he's no Tennyson, either. Personally, I AM suffering deeply for having read THAT. Ouch, ouch, ouch. Actually it is SO bad that I suspect the SRF "BOD" of having more to do with it's creation than PY. I'd never read anything so painful. Like alley cats howling on the back fence. Truly, truly painful. No PY IS no Shakespere. But, I see nowhere on this board where he is considered such. As we say, "one cannot compare apples to oranges." Actaully, you're sounding much better and less angry in these later posts. As for comedy. Well, that's what I was suggesting. You seem VERY contrarian, Mary, Mary. What I meant is that two years of SRF isn't going to give you much edge in poking some serious fun at it all. At best, you, sir, may generalize. Feel free. BTW, you're very sweet yourself, Tommy. Just what gives you the idea I don't have a diagnosis...or a degree? Also, could you shorten up your posts. As I was reading that Shankara Sharanam stuff you suggested at www.pranayama.org I severly strained my attention span. What a bloody bore! Beg your pardon, Mum.
forkhand Registered User (3/16/03 11:25 pm) Reply	Re: hubbard/yogananda (This message was left blank) Edited by: forkhand at: 3/21/03 9:14:20 am
etzchaim Registered User (3/17/03 8:42 am) Reply	Re: To Chela2020 Chela2020 wrote: "Could you please inlarge upon this statement you made? "From what I know through my lineage, Yogananda was very concerned about the future of SRF and he knew some things about it that really frightened him." " OK, several years ago my Guru mentioned a few times that Yogananda had spoken to Shelley about issues he had perceived about the future. These were concerning both SRF and his (Yogananda's) next incarnation. This was more than ten years ago, (that I heard this) so I have the general impression that Yogananda was very concerned with both issues, but I do not remember the exact words and I don't recall Kriyananda going into great detail, other than to say that spiritual darkness/delusion was a great concern (for those reading this, this is the Chicago Kriyananda, not the Ananda Kriyananda). What I clearly remember is that he feared that a great amount of spiritual darkness/challenges - would overtake both SRF and his next incarnation. He was afraid that SRF would 'self-destruct'. The details of his next incarnation involved not getting born into a Yogic family and having to battle through a good amount of challenges before being able to establish him/herself on the path again. It was not implied that this next incarnation would fail, just have to struggle through alot of challenges, for whatever reasons. Shelley was very much against starting spiritual organizations, believing them to be madhouses (he also called the earth the "insane asylum of the Universe", which, having lived almost 40 years, I heartily agree) and this was also part of the subject, and has to do with the 'darkness' that Yogananda was referring to with SRF, because Kriyananda kept refering to 'organizations'. Etz
chela2020 Registered User (3/18/03 6:02 am) Reply	Re: To Chela2020 (This message was left blank) Edited by: chela2020 at: 7/1/03 4:54 pm
etzchaim Registered User (3/18/03 6:28 am) Reply	Re: To Chela2020 Chela2020, Shelley was Kriyananda's Guru. He passed away about 6 years ago. He was a disciple of Yogananda and lived at MW for a number of years. He was there when the building that fell into the lake was built and tells a story that explains it. I've been contemplating putting it and another in the "Yogananda Stories" section, but the stories there are so "effluviently devotional" that my stories seems out of place. I think that Kriyanada was also at MW for some time, and also lived with Shelley for some time, in Florida. Shelley taught mainly out of his home. Etz
forkhand Registered User (3/18/03 8:40 am) Reply	Re: Shelley I just thought i might add a little on Shelley here since this is the first i have seen mention of him on Walrus. You can find out more about Shelly by going to www.goddessatlarge.com where you will find out that the owner of the sight is none other than Shelly's wife, Deborah Trimmer. SHe is hard to find and might not like me posting this here but i'm sure a little publicity won't hurt. She says Shelly was the stealth guru as he didn't start any organisation or create followers as such. Deborah is a nice lady. I also heard from Roy Eugene Davis that Shelly was kicked out of SRF because he wasn't complying with monastic life. He claims he was taught directly by Yogananda in some special way and was given authorisation by Yogananda to teach Kriya (Roy Davies also claims Shelly was given no such authorisation). He is, as etz says, the guru of Goswami Kriyananda who now has his temple of Kriya yoga in Chicago. Deborah teaches Kriya to those she thinks are worthy and appear sincere. She is usually easy to get hold of by email although you wont have much luck finding her by phone i suppose. She lives in Florida. I am sorry about my earlier posts. It was not right or appropriate for me to condemn kriya. I very much love Yogananda for who he was, is and will always be. When i said i left this path i meant that probably like many others here i left SRF. It is quite apparent that SRF is corrupt. At the same time, they cannot really be blamed for being human. And when i said that Yogananda wasn't Shakespeare i didn't mean that he was bad in any way. Yogananda's writing and talking is of a very high caliber and i do love it. If i want to ever go as far as saying i am a devotee, it won't be to SRF. I know what Yogananda looks like, i know what he said, and that is enough for me - i don't need to pledge allegiance to an organisation that he himself ran into the mud in terms of following. Yoga can be learnt from a book at your local store these days. If you want to be a devotee of master and his line of masters back to Babaji, then that is fine but just don't get me to sign a paper saying i must go to convo or become a member of SRF. SRF may well be under the influence of maya consciousness at the moment. Precious little is said on walrus about the effects of kriya itself on the individuals that practice it. Why don't you share some experiences? My jabs at soulcircle (and if i made any on stermejo) were uncalled for and i'm glad they weren't bothered to be replied to. Tada (i have seen some use the greeting namaste at the end of their posts - just wondered why?!?)
forkhand Registered User (3/18/03 8:46 am) Reply	Re: To Chela2020 I just wrote a nice little bit and it didn't work for some reason! The server went all loopy. Let me try again. Shelly was the guru of Goswami Kriyananda who now runs the Temple of Kriya Yoga in Chicago. You can find out more about Shelly by going to www.goddessatlarge.com. It is a site run by the late Shelly's wife, Deborah Trimmer. Deborah is a nice lady. Roy Eugene Davis told me that Shelly got kicked out of SRF because he wasn't obeying the rules. Roy Davis also says that Shelly wasn't taught to give kriya by Yogananda. That might upset Deborah. I love Yogananda and am not qualified to talk about Kriya. SRF is not an organisation i want to be involved with. Sorry to Soulcircle and stermejo for any uncalled for comments. Precious little is said about people's experiences with Kriya on Walrus. Why is that? Does anybody care to share some experiences? Tada (and i have seen some use the word greeting Namaste at the end of their posts. Why?!?)
chela2020 Registered User (3/18/03 9:26 am) Reply	Etzchaim (This message was left blank) Edited by: chela2020 at: 7/1/03 4:55 pm
etzchaim Registered User (3/18/03 9:53 am) Reply	Re: Shelley Well, that's quite fascinating about Roy Eugene Davis. As far as I know, Shelley told Yogananda that he would not become a Swami because he knew that he was going to get married, so he never planned on staying at the ashram. I suspect that Davis does not really know what went on between Yogananda and Shelley, based on my experiences at Kriyananda's Temple. There's alot that goes on there that is not apparent to the physical eye and everyday consciousness and Shelley was not making things up. If I told you any more I would have to...break my adherence to ahimsa . It's shocking to me that there is so much negative talk and judgment going on among Yogananda's disciples. There's an inordinant lack of respect for people who choose to marry (yikes!) and who do not take the very conservative, almost totalitarian, pre-1950's mindset that's seems endemic to SRF. Do they really make people sign a paper saying they will go to convo? I wouldn't follow the rules either!!!! On the other hand, if anyone does contact Deborah, please tell her that her message board has been spammed! She needs to clean it up a bit... Perhaps I'll send her an e-mail. Etz P.S. Very few of us are NOT under the influence of Maya. Usually, when I come across someone who is certain they know the Will of G-d, I cross the street, respectfully.
forkhand Registered User (3/19/03 3:50 am) Reply	Re: Shelley Dear etzchaim, Is there any mention of kundalini in kabbalah? thanks
etzchaim Registered User (3/20/03 9:48 am) Reply	Kundalini "Is there any mention of kundalini in kabbalah?" The English words used are "Fire in the Spine" and it normally preceeds prophetic experiences (along with numerous other phenomena...) and the 'annointing' experiences which are synomous with samadhi. The Middle Pillar of the Tree is basically synomous with sushumna, and the Right and Left Pillars with Ida and Pingala. If going up the Middle, it is a harmonious experience, if going up either the Right or Left, there is more trauma and even violence. The natural creation, downwards, is described as occuring in a 'lightning bolt', which encompasses all the Sefirot, whereas, when going up, it's safer to try to remain in the Middle (this involves balancing out emotions, etc.). ------------------------------------------------------ The University I work at has just laid off ALOT of people and rearranged many jobs. My department lost two positions and one person and we are being asked to increase our production while taking on some of the work that has been 'rearranged', so I'm going to take a break from the internet for awhile till we get into a stable pattern. I'm also going to be setting up other ways for myself to bring in income, because, while I'm assured a job for this year, I'm not so certain of the future. Knowing me, I will not be able to resist checking in every once in awhile. I wish all of you well, with progress in your paths, physically, mentally and spiritually. Shalom and Shanti, Etzchaim
Lobo Registered User (3/20/03 9:42 pm) Reply	Re: Shelley I think the "signing a paper going to convo" is not correct. I certainly never signed any such thing nor have I ever heard any other Yogananda/SRF devotee mention having to sign one. To be accepted for initiation in kriya yoga, and thus as SRF sees it become the disciple of PY and the rest of his lineage one does have to sign a paper offering loyalty to God and Guru and agree not to diviluge the technique without permission from Mt. Washington. Also one must agree by signing to practice the technique faithfully to the best of one's ability. This, it seemed to me at the time and as I consider it now is justified and would probably be what PY would expect from someone he is personally initiating. Second, the story about Yogananda's next incarnation doesn't jibe with what I've always heard from longtime members and monastics. He said he would not play a prominent role in the world (as he did this time), instead gathering up a few of his closest disciples and spending that lifetime meditating in the Himalayas. He said that this future incarnation would be in 200 (I"ve also heard 100) years in the future. Also, a soul that has attained nirbikalpa samadhi, supreme and total freedom has no karma, therefore he/she doesn't have to take a physical form again. So when they do incarnate it is solely to help raise the collective vibratory rate of this plane, whether they play the more open worldly role or stay secluded known just to a few. In other words, if he comes back it will because of his compassion for the suffering of those "left behind". As to experiences with kriya it is part of PY's teaching that spiritual experiences are sacred, therefore to be held as between the devotee and God. Many people, real devotee's, adhere to this knowing that if one wants others to know of their spiritual experiences it ultimately comes down to ego; a desire for adulation, hence not furthering their spiritual unfoldment, the purpose of this and any other incarnation. Pray for peace
etzchaim Registered User (3/21/03 8:52 am) Reply	Re: Shelley OK, I was browsing and have to correct this. There are two levels of Nirvikalpa Samadhi, one with samskaras and one without. A person needs to be established in the higher level (without Samskaras) in order to be a completely free soul. There are alot of things that Senior Monastics have said about Yogananda. I believe my own lineage, though. Etzchaim
stermejo Registered User (3/21/03 7:33 pm) Reply	Re: To Chela2020 None taken Forkhand. Actually, I was playing with you:-) BTW, My sister just sent me an Aricle by Mr Tony Parsons from the UK Daily Mirror. I recall a song, Rule Britiannia (?) that says, "There'll always be an England and England will be free!" So thanks, Mr Tony Blair and all you John Bulls out there, you're ALLRIGHT, Jack!

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