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OneTaste
Registered User
(6/25/03 3:57 pm)
Reply 		SRF--the Ups and Downs and the Nondual
:) :\

Notice the Noticer, I noticed this point of yours in another thread and I wanted to start a new thread around it because I don’t think it should be lost in the shuffle of your discussion re the Vedanta org stuff.

Quote:
Remember, the whole concept of "getting somewhere" is delusional since God is not "somewhere else." That's why the attempt to "get there," the belief that it's NOT HERE, keeps us from ever actually "arriving."

Absolutely. This concept of the Nondual goes to the heart of everything about the “spiritual” life and a host of the problems in SRF and the teachings.

Was Yogananda aware of the Nondual approach? From my readings, I would say definitely. But is SRF in its approach and emphasis attuned to the Nondaul? From my experience, emphatically not. We call it the path, but where is it going? As Y quotes Kabir in the AY,

Path presupposes distance;
If He be near, no path needest thou at all.
Verily, it maketh me smile
To hear of a fish in water athirst.

Throughout history, there has been an ongoing war (and I don’t mean debate; I mean war) between two camps, the ascenders and the descenders. The lion's share of the spiritual traditions, East and West, have ascribed to one or the other.

The ascenders see this world as evil, something to be escaped. It’s the Anandamoy line of “this world is a horrible place—put all your efforts into getting out of it.” It’s the “body bad, senses dirty, and don’t even think about sex” wing.

The descenders see this world as the embodiment of God, prakriti as opposed to purusha. Imbued with the divine, this world is the place to embrace that divine in all of it’s Diversity. It’s the “body good, mind bad, celebrate the senses, take delight in nature" wing.

It’s the Transcendental vs. Immanent split, and it has fueled much of the fires of history.

The Nondual traditions have ditched the split altogether and sought the integration of both as being necessary. Spirit is not transendant or immanent, but transcendant and immanent. The One in the Many and the Many in the One. Form in Emptiness, and Emptiness in Form.

While Yogananda was clearly aware of the Nondual, (see When I Take the Vow of Silence) he did put an emphasis on the ascending current and SRF seems to have fallen completely into the ascendant ditch—hence all that repression of the body and such.

But, it is important to remember that, while the ascenders were in the ascendant from the time of the Gnostics and before, the descenders have been dominant since the Renaissance, so he was definitely swimming upstream against that, hence the focus on the ascendant.

For all of the talk of timeless truths that SRF puts out, and Vishwananda’s bit at the convo about these teachings being an old teaching and they aren’t going to change, there is a lot in it that is not timeless, being wholly immersed in the flow of time. The teachings didn’t just pop out of a vacuum, for nothing does. While there is the timeless, much of it is dyed in the culture and time from which the teachings came and to which they were presented. And those elements are wholly in flux. Always. The Noble New is a call for just that evolution of consciousness that is the foundation of Form, ever-evolving Spirit made up of Emptiness, never changing timeless Spirit. Paradox Found.

If folks want to think of SRF as being the Dispensation of the New Age or to deny such, it may be helpful to examine the context of the historical currents of the ascenders and the descenders. Although there is definitely elements of the Nondual, there is much of it that is merely a proclamation of the same ol’ ascendant stuff of days gone by. And those days have gone by for good reason. It's called evolution. As Yogananda councils and rightly, it is up to us to be the good discriminating swan and take the milk out of the mixture and leave the water behind.

Path presupposes distance;
If He be near, no path needest thou at all.
Verily, it maketh me smile
To hear of a fish in water athirst.

Indeed. Here and Now. Like Yogananda said in his definition of Self-Realization, you are as close to God as you are ever going to be. It's just in the remembering.

And for anyone who wants to argue the superiority of either the ascending current or the descending current, just think of how well that would work in kriya. ;)

etzchaim
Registered User
(6/26/03 6:22 am)
Reply 		Re: SRF--the Ups and Downs and the Nondual
I agree that the belief that there is a 'path' can cause a person to get caught in the idea that there is 'somewhere to go' and that this can be an obstacle. On the other hand, to disregard the idea that, as unique expressions of the Infinite, each one of us does not resonate to a particle 'mode', 'vibration' or 'note', or whatever, that causes the realization to 'click' is also incorrect.

It's one thing to say "There's no where to go" and another thing to actually experience it in TOTAL and have it stick so that it permeates the whole. Each part of the whole has a different "language" that it hears, and different patterns that require alignment, so to speak, so individual paths are necessary and should be respected - they all lead to the whole. The problems begin only when one person insists that they have the 'way' that everyone else should follow, that their 'way' is superior and those who reject their 'way' are (take your pick: spiritually imature, complainers, sinners, bad chelas, lost for lifetimes in dillusion, stupid, not on the fast track...etc., fill in whatever has been used against you or someone you know), OR when the 'path' is mistaken for the goal.

Etz

etzchaim
Registered User
(6/26/03 11:35 am)
Reply 		Re: SRF--the Ups and Downs and the Nondual
Wouldn't someone who has been on the transcendent trip need to then take the immanent trip for a while to balance out the patterning?

I would think that someone who has an aversion to either direction is going to have problems, which is why I'm essentially opposed to the non-householder traditions. I don't see a value in monasticism. On the other hand, if all you are is a sensualist, you're also going in the wrong direction. The ideal is a balance between the two.

The Jewish approach is to have everyone marry and engage in the world in carefully prescribed ways. It only works in theory, though :(

Edited by: etzchaim at: 6/26/03 12:54 pm
YellowBeard420
Registered User
(12/2/03 8:23 am)
Reply
Re: SRF--the Ups and Downs and the Nondual
OneTaste wrote (6/25/03): "The Noble New is a call for just that evolution of consciousness that is the foundation of Form, ever-evolving Spirit made up of Emptiness, never changing timeless Spirit. Paradox Found."

I'm quoting this becuase I feel it's your main point here, correct me if I'm wrong. You say there's a paradox here because we have the "evolution of consciousness" and the "ever-evolving Spirit" within the "never changing timeless Spirit. That would be true *if* there was the evolution of consciousness. I don't mean to nit-pick your statements here to attack you. This is an important issue you've raised here. Most have not added to this becuase they're too busy worshipping their gurus who have all the answers for them. "Enlightenment" is the perception of the Self. Seeing that is the only thing that matters in spirituality as far as I'm concerned. Through that perception, you see how everyone is really your Self. Now I know everyone likes to make fun of that here and you like to call it "spirituality 101" and that everyone understands it already and are now onto the serious stuff like Kriya Yoga. Spirituality isn't a matter of grades of understanding. Either you see that Self or you do not. If you truely understood this outside of book reading, you would never make fun of such a thing becuase all morality rests in that knowledge. So when we go into the discussion on paradox, it has no meaning, it's just words banging together because they're to "solid", so to speak, to go down this road. In actuality there is no paradox, only the Self, and that Self you or I can not describe.

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