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Raja Begum
Unregistered User
(12/1/01 3:18 am)
Reply 		The Million Dollar Question....
I believe SRF's emphasis on hard-core monastic thinking messed a lot of us up. Only a tiny percent of SRF members will ever be monastics.

So why do we have a monastic guru leading a progressive country of basically householders? Where's the logic in that? How does that provide us with a role model we can relate to?

One for all
Unregistered User
(12/1/01 8:36 am)
Reply 		repeat postings
Dear Raja,

I have read your thought-provoking posts and admire your writing and sense of purpose.

I spend hours a week going throught this bullentin board to stay a breast of new posts (I speed read). I am amazed at the volume that you write...where do you find the time?

I however, don't have oodles of time...it would be a big help to me and perhaps others who visit if you post in one spot the most appropriate topic. I hope you'll consider that.

Rigidananda would youconsider this request as well?

Thanks.

Raja Begum
Unregistered User
(12/1/01 1:02 pm)
Reply 		Multiplicity
Thanks for the advice. My usual habit is to post in one spot at the most appropriate section. Rarely have I submitted multiple posts. When I do, it's usually because I want to catch more responses and have them answered in the context where they're located.

Thank's for the praise. Where do I find the time? I don't need time -- I'm a speedwriter!

By the way..... One-For-All! Would you consider responding to the question? :smokin

KS
Unregistered User
(12/1/01 3:46 pm)
Reply 		Householder
Raja,
True Gurus are so rare. God sends them in many forms and roles. Jesus was unmarried (I think), as was Babaji (?), others have been married. Those of us living today don’t need someone who can take us that last 10 miles to freedom. We need someone who can help us to learn to behave and learn the beginnings of the spiritual life.

I don’t see any problem at all in God sending us a Guru who was not a house holder. I truly believe he was rare in that he was a truly God realized soul who could speak and write on ANY subject. I would listen to his advice on anything.

Reading some of his words directly connects with me in an intuitive way and I would follow him anywhere. I am totally blessed to have found him.

SRF’s emphasis is of course a problem. They need serious “re-configuration” which we are all discussing here on the Walrus. There interpretations in the Lessons and various places are flawed. However, connecting and looking directly at Master I don’t feel his help is lacking for my house holder path.

KS
Unregistered User
(12/1/01 4:01 pm)
Reply 		Stress
By the way, for those that think we are kidding around, I just found out another poor women working for the nuns has been diagnosed by Kaiser with a stress related illness.

Can you imagine? Stress working for those dear sweet nuns.

Raja Begum
Unregistered User
(12/1/01 4:39 pm)
Reply 		RE Master
Quote:
SRF’s emphasis is of course a problem. They need serious “re-configuration” which we are all discussing here on the Walrus. There interpretations in the Lessons and various places are flawed. However, connecting and looking directly at Master I don’t feel his help is lacking for my house holder path


Well put. I get the distinction you're making -- that our guru was well-rounded, but his direct disciples are not, and it is they who are skewing the message.

However, there are quotes atributed to our guru in SRF publications such as "The Master Said" where he seems to favor monasticism. I am recalling a question a disciple put to him regarding which was the higer path -- monastic or householder? --- and he tells the disciple that the monastic path is higher. In contradistinction, someone once pointed out to me that the first edition of the AY has a line of Guruji's in praise of the God-centered householder path, but that subsequent editions altered the line to make it look less favorable.

I just want to know the truth. What did our guru really think about us? And why do his direct disciples have such an elitist attitude towards their renunciation and refer to every one else as "Ordinary man...Average man..."? One hour in front of a Mrinalini Video is enough to convince any newcomer its time to sell all and become an applicant.

KS
Registered User
(12/1/01 5:57 pm)
Reply 		High Path
There is probably a difference in “higher” and “quicker”. “Higher” doesn’t make sense. We assume it means “better” and so on. I was “higher” in the 60’s but didn’t get to God. (A little Walrus humor)

I do believe that a balanced life without distractions would be quicker. If it were possible to be balanced and live alone in a cave then that might be “quicker”. However, that comes much later once we have developed the basics. We are all children on the path, we should not kid ourselves. To develop balance we need some of these challenges. To ignore that and become a renunciant (in the home or ashram) is not healthy and will not speed our progress.

The current direct disciples have such a poor elitist attitude because they are bone heads. This is not a reflection on what Master thought of lay members. Look at James and Doctor. Even Gynamata was a house holder. Even his guru!

Not to worry. Monastic or not, Master is going to give us exactly what we need and as much help as we can accept. The monastic or lay member distinction is a trivial distinction only important to the bad ladies.

One for all
Unregistered User
(12/2/01 8:27 am)
Reply 		Guru's outer role
Raja,

KS has very good response. Just how many God-realized souls are incarnate at one time?

To add to that, the "logic" behind monasticism is that one can devote more time to serving the community at large because they don't have a family that would take up their attention. I'm not sure how well the theory holds up in real life. And does God confine him/herself to logic?

So why didn't Babaji himself come over? Why Yogananda? Perhaps his personality would be best suited to the western culture.

I separate Yogananda from his organization...The same way Jesus Christ is far more that the catholic/chritianity tree that grew from his life.

I thought about why would some one put posts in different topics, and came to the conclusion that you verified: differnet contexts creat different reponse threads.

In closing Raja, I am a little selective about what to respond to... I am interested in learning how SRF got off track. I'll contribute info and insight when I think I can add to the group understanding. Not so sure I added much here.
Lastly time is a factor: I try to choose my words carefully and I quasi-hunt and peck.

Gray beard
Registered User
(12/5/01 9:53 pm)
Reply 		Re: The Million Dollar Question....
Good question R.B.,

I too am aware of the quote in the first edition, later editied out by Tara? or Master? praising the householder life as the better one. Then we too have the example of Sri Shyamaji, householder of householder's.

I think in reading Brenda Lewis' book of Dr. and Master's relationship shown through their letters that as someone else said Master was able to drop the outer part of monastism and become a householder of sorts. He lived with Dr and Mrs. Lewis and their children for a couple of years in the very early days. He talks of recipe's to Mama Lewis and meditation to Dr. He dotes on the kids. Pretty householderish, and quite a change for a monk who'd been revered by everyone at the school he'd founded where he'd just come from.

And he had so many great householders as disciples. Yogacharya Oliver Black, Yogacharya Curaron from Mexico, Durga from Detroit before she entered the ashram etc. etc. He got along with all from what I can see not being doctrinare or fussy the way some monastic teacher's are who refuse to 'mix' with the great unwashed.

Ramakrishna Paramahansa had a great quote on this subject.
"God loves the householder who in the midst of all his activity and worldly distractions still takes a moment to think of Him whereas the monk has all day to do so." Or words to that effect.

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