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SsSsSnake Registered User (1/2/04 12:04 am) Reply	Exhausted I lost my main post and havent time right now to put it all down again but I was trying to say this. Gurus come and attract us to there path with talks of Divine lights and Bliss and miracles etc etc.so we end up chasing and waiting for those experieces to come and if we do get some mystical stuff happeing which i have to admit i have had my fair share it just pushes you on further to have more yet on the one hand they say just desire God and on the other they say till you can cut off your arm and renew it again you havent experienced the highest or till you can feel yourself in the fartest reaches of outer space you have not arrived so we continue on and on faithfully practicing our Kriya or whatever untill we exhaust ourselves with the desire for enlightenment frustration ensues and Peace flies out the window. Yet if you listen to Echart tolle and particularly Raman Maharshi Being is here now and yes Be still and know that i am God is easier to feel if one just sits and surrenders to Be here now rather than sticking tongues down throats pressing eyeballs sticking fingers in ears and breathing oneself silly. Thanks for listening ,I guess ive just had Gurus up to my neck, even though i can feel great devotion to themI feel now they are a distration to relising Truth.
YellowBeard420 Slow Down (1/2/04 12:38 pm) Reply	Re: Exhausted > SsSsSnake wrote: "I lost my main post and haven't time right now to put it all down again" YellowBeard has had that happen at least once, it's pretty frustrating especially when you put a lot of effort into a post. > SsSsSnake: "we continue on and on faithfully practicing our Kriya or whatever until we exhaust ourselves with the desire for enlightenment, frustration ensues and Peace flies out the window." Exactly. Unfortunately most people never seem to catch on and go to their graves chasing 'Enlightenment' when in actuality it is right behind their eyes and not something to be hunted down. > SsSsSnake: "... sticking tongues down throats, pressing eyeballs, sticking fingers in ears and breathing oneself silly." Nice description of the SRF techniques and of that strange tongue Mudra that people think is real slick. These practices really are quite silly when we stand back and think about them carefully for a bit. > SsSsSnake: "I guess i've just had Gurus up to my neck, even though i can feel great devotion to them, I feel now they are a distraction to realizing Truth." The closer you get to Truth, the more subtle the illusions become to bring us down. YellowBeard feels that gurus are a distraction as well. We should continue down the Path and not get caught up in these 'temptations' of supernatural abilities that gurus offer. Gurus take the Divine from us and stick it in their pockets, and we're suppose to worship them for that. YellowBeard considers them thieves more than anything else, so he cannot share in your devotion to them. He has some other feelings for them.
SsSsSnake Registered User (1/2/04 2:08 pm) Reply	Re: Exhausted Yo Yellowbeard I love this site.the audio bits a great ,especially Spiritual Addiction. I realize now that Im a Spiritual Junkie lmao
SsSsSnake Registered User (1/2/04 2:09 pm) Reply	Re: Exhausted wwwooooops forgot to post the link for the above post. www.zen-satsang.org/
redpurusha Registered User (1/2/04 4:16 pm) Reply	Re: Exhausted SsSsSnake, I dont' know who's telling you these things, but from what I've read in the Bhagavad Gita and the AY, is when performing any action do not be attached to the results. This applies to meditation or kriya (action). Meditate and perform everyday functions with purpose but without expecting anything in return. Expectation brings sorrow and your Peace flying out the window. Like for example, you post some important thoughts on the Walrus, then maybe an hour later you come back to check if anyone has jumped to reply to your wisdom (your aim might even solely be to stir the pot as much as possible as has been seen here) but when you see no one has you might get a little frustrated or at least disappointed. But, say you post a message and go do something else afterwards, almost forgetting about it and not worrying or anticipating any people responding to it -just knowing you wrote something good, then the next time you come back you won't be looking for a response or lack of, just accepting and reacting to whatever happens. I wish I can say I have such great control of my emotions and am supremely calm, but I'm not and find myself anticipating things, yet curbing the anticipation a little. Well, these are the teachings given in the Gita as translated and interpreted by PY, I've find them useful.
SsSsSnake Registered User (1/2/04 4:26 pm) Reply	Re: Exhausted Thankyou Redperusha but its hard to meditate without expecting results when we have it thrust down our throats,promises promises of mystical stuff to wheel us in then told to not expect anything,if thats not decietfull i dont know what is?
dawnrays Registered User (1/3/04 6:33 am) Reply	Re: Exhausted Snake, What (exactly) are you complaining about? First you admit you've had mystical experiences (but are sick of them?) Then you complain because somebody broke their promise (or something?) It seems to me that if you got your inner lights and stuff (my fair share) then you got what you wanted! Then you go on to say that it is "deceitful" to be told to expect these things? Also, your link appears to be to a spiritual study sight ripe with happy faced and smiling teachers promising yet more and more "enlightenment" and you admit to being a "spiritual junkie". I just don't get what the problem is. The whole point of the teachings is spiritual liberation. For some this is achieved through bhakti or devotion. It is not the end all and the be all. If gurus are just a "distraction" then concentrate on the formless. However, this is difficult for many to do, as someone pointed out in an earlier thread, we are conditioned to be visual creatures... I must say I don't know much about the higher kriyas. They do seem a little strange. I've never felt the need to go beyond 24 or 36 but I have found that much helpful and sometimes "less is more". In my experience, a little goes along away after a few years.
SsSsSnake Registered User (1/3/04 7:23 am) Reply	Re: Exhausted Dawnrays(nice name by the way). I was trying to say that most of the traditional paths seem to put one in a position of keep trying a little bit harder as you still have a long way to go,you are not experiencing out and out bliss yet so you must keep going going going. In contrast I was saying about Eckart Tolle as an example of that we are already Being and we are like the dog trying to catch its tail when we look for more and more experiences of comfirmation that we are on the correct path etc. What really hit me was something somebody said. We are not a body having a spiritual experience but we are a spiritual experience having a body .
dawnrays Registered User (1/3/04 7:47 am) Reply	Re: Exhausted Well, you will NEVER get that kind of confirmation from srf (I don't know if you are in or out right now). What alot of people don't realize, is that realizing what they are in, is actually a pretty MAJOR realization. They don't give you much positive feed back, agreed. Hope you are OUT NOW and I do agree with the here and now and taking a break from spiritual practices to smell the flowers too! A well balanced, happy life with a family or a loving community is a wonderful anecdote to meditation. It is a thing which srf (unfortunately) is not providing to devotees right now. Welcome to the Walrus and perk up there!!! The only thing to exhaust you here is probably too much gab....
YellowBeard420 Slow Down (1/4/04 9:46 pm) Reply	Re: Exhausted > Redpurusha wrote in regard to SsSsSnakes's post: "I don't know who's telling you these things ..." SsSsSnake is doing more than fine on his own in not worrying about these kinds of comments, but YellowBeard has to slip in a few comments here. SsSsSnake is speaking on his own experiences. He's been a serious spiritual practitioner for a very long time. He's definitely qualified and entitled to make these observations. > Redpurusha to SsSsSnake: "Like for example, you post some important thoughts on the Walrus, then maybe an hour later you come back to check if anyone has jumped to reply to your wisdom (your aim might even solely be to stir the pot as much as possible as has been seen here) but when you see no one has you might get a little frustrated or at least disappointed." Umm, this is not really much of an example, it's more of a not-so-veiled cheesy backhanded slap in the face. ---------------- "'Letting everything end' means to stand in the moment completely naked of attachment to any and all ideas, concepts, hopes, preferences, and experiences. Simply put, it means to stop strategizing, controlling, manipulating, and running away from yourself -- and to simply be. Finally you must let everything end and be still. In letting everything end, all seeking and striving stops. All effort to be someone or to find some extraordinary state of being ceases. This ceasing is essential. It is true spiritual maturity." -- Adyashanti This is a quote from the site mentioned by SsSsSnake. You gotta love the Zen approach, it's just so sane and clear, leaving very little room for error. Guru worshipers scatter like roaches from the light with talk like this. As a rule, YellowBeard dislikes most religious teachers because they're either completely disingenuous (which is the case most of the time) or their experiences have been very shallow and most of what they say is simply parroted from others. This gentlemen on the other hand, Adyashanti, has a very profound degree of understanding. YellowBeard appreciates the link. The quotes by Adya are a blessing to read and very "loaded". Just reading the words removes dross from the mind. After reading some of the material and then as YellowBeard was lying in bed, the personality began to slowly melt away a bit allowing pure Awareness to peek around inside. "To deeply inquire into the question 'Who is another?' can lead to the direct experience that the other is one�s own Self � that in fact there is no other. However, I have seen that for most seekers, even this direct experiential revelation is not enough to transform the painfully personal ways they relate. To come to this profound transformation requires a very deep investigation into the implications inherent within the experiential revelation that there is no other. It is in the daily living of these implications that most seekers fail. Why? Because, fundamentally, most people want to remain separate and in control. Simply put, most people want to keep dreaming that they are special, unique, and separate, more than they want to wake up to the perfect unity of an Unknown which leaves no room from any separation from the whole." -- Adyashanti Ever since YellowBeard came to this board, he has spoken on this Self-realization. But YellowBeard has not been able to actually live this realization, or in other words, allow himself to be fully consumed by it. When YellowBeard had these realizations through his practices before SRF, he got distracted by the guru-fantastic tales (a term coined from the Windsor Castle archives on SRF oaks.nvg.org/kors.html ) described in Autobiography of a Yogi. This was the beginning of the end. YellowBeard feels that this was a subtle deception on the Path and feels very cheated like a small child being beaten by what Yogananda did. If some readers wonder why YellowBeard's statements are so fiery in regard to Yogananda, this is why. Now YellowBeard can get back to the real work. The perception of Self-realization is only the beginning. YellowBeard's message is a warning to other travelers about this bandit on the side of the road. Yogananda will take everything of value from you and turn you into a zombie elf to lure more victims into his web. Once caught in this web, it's extremely difficult to escape. Yogananda feigns that he is pointing towards the Self, but actually it is his massively expanded ego that he is pointing to. He speaks of tales of endless bliss and miraculous powers to tempt you. He justifies what he does because only the greedy will fall into his clutches. He is like the description of the Judeo-Christian devil in this regard. He is a false prophet.
redpurusha Registered User (1/5/04 10:50 am) Reply	Re: Exhausted speaking of massively exapanded egos... yellowbeard wrote: "Umm, this is not really much of an example, it's more of a not-so-veiled cheesy backhanded slap in the face." It's actually only an example describing a trivial task without desiring the "fruits of one's actions" as taught in the Bhagavad Gita and elsewhere.
dawnrays Registered User (1/5/04 11:08 am) Reply	Re: Exhausted Wow, You sure read alot into THAT harmless little remark... Really makes me wonder about some of your other astute observations.... Call me clueless, YB, but I was under the impression that Yogananda's "massive ego" departed about 50 years ago. Yours on the other hand, appears to be in full swing.. I have never in my life seen such rampant and uncontrolled paranoia and anger... I wouldn't be so eager to advertise my spiritual techniques and practices just yet (settle down a little) your comments speak volumes...
etzchaim Registered User (1/6/04 6:51 am) Reply	Re: Exhausted "As a rule, YellowBeard dislikes most religious teachers because they're either completely disingenuous (which is the case most of the time) or their experiences have been very shallow and most of what they say is simply parroted from others." It's all done with mirrors, YB. Can you find some subconscious motivations anywhere? I can, but it was really an icky business admitting my own. Good luck and dig deep. Etz, also exhausted, but for different reasons.
SsSsSnake Registered User (1/6/04 12:18 pm) Reply	Re: Exhausted
thatpilgrim Registered User (1/6/04 4:38 pm) Reply	Re: Exhausted YellowBeard, I copy this article for your edification, from Columbia University's Health Question and Answer Internet Service: http://www.goaskalice.columbia.edu/1971.html REFERRING TO ONE'S SELF IN THE THIRD PERSON Dear Alice, Why do some people refer to themselves in third person view? Like they'll say, "Bob likes that" instead of, "I like that." Sounds wacky to me, -confused --------------------------------------- Dear confused, Alice isn't sure why anyone would talk about him- or herself in this way. Could "Bob" be a member of the Royal Family? "King Bob is not pleased with the Prince's escapades." Maybe he has a pretend friend, also named Bob, whom you and the rest of us can't see. Or, what if like Cher, Janet, and Madonna, Bob is both an official first-name only human being and a well-known product, making it perfectly acceptable to use one's own name in this way? If we could get Madonna on the tele, she might say, "Alice, the Madonna shows in New York last summer were brilliant, except the ones that Madonna cancelled." Wait a minute; could it be that, similar to Alice, Bob is an info giver who talks in the third person because so many other people make his work possible, that for him to say "I" all the time would be selfish and inaccurate? Okay, maybe people who say their first name a lot are pretentious and grandiose� you know, full of themselves. On the other hand, saying "I" can be more Intimate, so if Bob were to find intimacy challenging, "Bob" could be a wee bit easier on the brain. "Bob really likes you and hopes you don't find his way of speaking too wacky." Could Bob be uncomfortable in his own skin � so much so that he's talking about himself as if he were someone else? And although it's extremely rare, such talk could occur in people with psychological disorders and illnesses that have speech abnormalities and changes in personality as consistent and long-term symptoms. These are probably many more explanations than you expected, or wanted� but you know Alice!
YellowBeard420 Slow Down (1/6/04 11:40 pm) Reply	Women in Power and Speaking in Third Person Thatpilgrim, Since I ... errr, YellowBeard questions the validity of Kriya Yoga and other SRF practices, it's certainly fair to question anything YellowBeard practices such as speaking in third person and the application of the Salvia divinorum herb. First, YellowBeard would like to start off by saying that if you've never run into a spiritual practitioner before that has spoken in third person as a practice of subduing the ego, then your exposure to different spiritual practices has been on the limited side. Even Daya Mata speaks in third person. Ohh, but she's suppose to be a "bad lady". I still haven't figured that one out. With all the money and power at her fingertips, she seems to be doing pretty good to me. But yes, I know, we need to scapegoat all the problems we've found with the Teachings onto the power structure of SRF. Before YellowBeard moves on from this point, it seems that part of the problem may lie in the fact that many have a problem with women in positions of power. Think about that one Dawnrays, Etzchaim and the other female participants on this board while you're busy grinding your axes! You better think about what you're participating in. Let me modify a statement of Etz's here by adding my own comments in brackets: > Etzchaim (from Kriya thread, 1/6/04): "What do you fear [from having women in a position of power], YB [Etz]? Don't answer that out loud, let it sink into the spine, and then dig it up some day ..." But back to speaking in third person, whether it is healthy or not depends on the context. Not speaking to others when they talk to you can be a sign of mental instability, but if someone is practicing the vow of silence, it's simply their spiritual practice -- they do it out of choice as an exercise. Also, it's like not eating for several days. This can be viewed as an unhealthy "strange" thing. But if someone's just fasting ... Speaking in third person is a very straightforward practice to disempower the ego. But of course this is strange to most here because they're not interested in abandoning egoistic ways of dealing with the world. You people want to expand your egos like Yogananda did to engulf the world. Well good luck because there's a price to pay for that. It's called enslavement to a spiritual hierarchy. Your ego may grow to unheard of sizes, but you'll always be on your knees under your gurus. Yin and Yang -- the more power you gain in some areas, the more you lose in others.
chuckle chela Registered User (1/7/04 12:28 am) Reply	Re: Exhausted oh, this is fun! thatpilgrim, methinks that alice has got YB's number, his latest remarks notwithstanding! Maybe we should ask alice about SRF . . . .
etzchaim Registered User (1/7/04 5:40 am) Reply	Re: Women in Power and Speaking in Third Person > Etzchaim (from Kriya thread, 1/6/04): "What do you fear [from having women in a position of power], YB [Etz]? Don't answer that out loud, let it sink into the spine, and then dig it up some day ..." YB, you added the words in brackets, and clearly have taken what I said totally out of context. I was in no way referring to women in power when I asked you what you were afraid of. The question has to do with what's inside you, and nothing more, so please do not read what you wish to see into it. Dig deeper, and really, we should be seeking power like Daya Mata? I have nothing against the lady. I'm not in SRF, never have been. I do have some major disagreements with organized religion, particularly when it tries to incorporate mystical traditions and formulate them for a mass market, and that would include Yogananda's mass marketing, along with Daya Matas. Etzchaim thinks you are deaf because the noise in your head is so talky-talky.
YellowBeard420 Slow Down (1/7/04 7:00 am) Reply	Aggressive Perfector Interesting SsSsSnake, YellowBeard sees that you're rolling on the floor laughing after 3 posters line up to insult Yellowbeard for defending your arse! Yeah YellowBeard knows that you didn't need his help or want it, but still that's pretty cheesy. YellowBeard has experienced more honor from drunks living on the streets. You received a harsh welcome and YellowBeard steps in to put that into question and you think it's funny that he's getting slammed for that? Yeah YellowBeard knows that you're worshiping gurus again now, but still, what's up with the kick in the teeth? Is that what your gurus teach you? Kick anyone in the teeth that doesn't worship regardless of how they treat you personally? Worshiping gurus always makes people vicious, we see it again and again on this board and throughout history. They don't care about anything other than the power that they think that they're going to gain. There's no other reason people worship. It's like pagans sacrificing people to their gods -- they don't even flinch about it, they'll kill anyone without a second thought for the power they think that they're going to get from their worship. But guess what, the trick's on you guru worshipers. You think you're going to gain power, but really you're on your way to hell in subservient guru enslavement. With your lust for power you end up chained on your knees underneath your religious hierarchy which you thought would uplift you. Yeah, smile in your artificial bliss, but you know that you're really feeling nothing but dull pain. You talk about the benefits of your mind-control techniques (aka Kriya Yoga), but if there really were any, you wouldn't be here talking about it, you would be doing it! Like all unrealities, you talk about it all day long because there's no real experience of it. You can't hear anything from the outside world, nothing but your programing. You're trapped in a labyrinth of twisted thoughts but you don't care. Hate is all you know, and you call it it love. Your gurus are your angles of death that you plaster your faces on the ground before. Independent thought is a mystery to you, a threat actually. All you can hear is "worship me, give me everything" from your large assortment of gods that come to collect from your dark hearts. Guru worshipers are dark specters working for their "masters" to subdue more victims. They continually work thinking that they'll somehow gain their long sought reward in the end just like Christians work to convert others thinking that they're paving their way to heaven by offering souls to their dark imaginary God. The road to hell is paved in your lust filled intentions for divine power that you think that you're going to receive for your brutal actions. Autobiography of a Yogi is a calling to all the trash of society, appealing to their greed and pulling them to hell. It's a magnet that attracts the shallow and hateful. If Yellowbeard didn't know that all people are the Self, he wouldn't care. He'd let everyone be flushed down the toilet. But he has to speak out to you pieces of dung even though it does no good. Here's some song lyrics by a band called Slayer that likes to sing about your gurus. It's called Aggressive Perfector: ------------- Follow me, I�ll lead the way; your fears will soon overtake Hide your infinite tears inside, it seeks your smallest break Screaming as if nothing helps, you press on to survive Playing out the fantasies of a force that keeps you alive He�ll have you down on your knees You play his fatal game He�ll satisfy your every need You�ll never be the same Take my hand, I�ll show you how; You�ve just one life to live The road you�re on goes straight to hell; Your life is yours to give His fantasies of all of you are much too great to see This world your living is so unreal, perfected just for me He�ll have you down on your knees You play his fatal game He�ll satisfy your every need You�ll never be the same -----------------
SsSsSnake Registered User (1/7/04 7:09 am) Reply	Re: Aggressive Perfector LoL yellowbeard. I dont know what made you think the rolling laughter was intended at you they most certainly were not. Regarding if I'm into Guru worship the answer is no but i still like to discuss all aspects of the path as I find it most interesting to talk to others of a like ilk. At the moment im sweating at Bikram Yoga lol,and even if i was doing kriya I couldnt be at it all day.even sex gets boring No I find like you this and other forumns a nice way to relax and read other peoples confusion beside my own
etzchaim Registered User (1/7/04 7:16 am) Reply	Aggressive Protector It might take awhile for me to figure out why SsSs etc. needs to be defended. I see a conversation and an exchange of ideas, but YB, you see aggression. We seem to like SsSsSs, at least I do, I've been having great conversations with him. Look at what Redpurusha really said. He is only wondering. You have us pigion-holed as Guru-worshippers, but the reality is that we are all much more varied and complex, or rather, just different, and it looks like the self that looks at the non-self is the same as the self but doesn't know it. Mirrors, YB. Dig. Edited by: etzchaim at: 1/7/04 7:22 am