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astral7
Registered User
(2/12/03 6:07 pm)
Reply 		Re: People Bashing?
how did you figure that out by yourself???

Borg108
Registered User
(2/12/03 10:22 pm)
Reply 		Re: Falling Through the Cracks
I'll agree with chris paris and say that I don't see any reason why Astral 7 should remain here to disturb the harmonious discussions on this board. Perhaps such disturbance is his goal. The only redeeming value I see from him being here is that it reminds us of the dogmatism and narrowness that many of us had at one time accepted without question. Astral 7 makes me thankful that I can see things more clearly now.

I wouldn't mind having someone here representing SRF's point of view if they could correct factual errors or present well reasoned counter arguments. But Astral 7's specious reasoning usually seems to be that SRF is divinely inspired and always correct. Therefore, if anyone disagrees with them, they must be wrong. Let me tell a story. On my first trip to India, I met someone from An*nda. I was happy to meet up with another kriyaban. But when I told him I was in SRF, his nostrils flared and he snapped, "You know, SRF is not divinely guided!" I thought for a moment then responded, "I think you're right, my friend. Any organization that once had Kriyananda as a board member and vice president couldn't be divinely guided." I smiled, but he walked away and never spoke to me again. So what about that Astral 7? How could the SRF, that is always right, have let Mr. Walters, who you think so badly of, be part of its top management? For that matter, how could Yoganandaji have built his first temple on the edge of a cliff and have it fall into the ocean soon after it was finished? Don't you think perfection is best sought within rather than without? Isn't that what all this is about? Do you really believe that many on this board who were very devoted and loyal to SRF, some giving much of their lives to God and Guru, all suddenly came under the influence of delusion and maya and, for little or no reason, decided to speak out against an organization to which they had at one time been so close and devoted?


Edited by: Borg108 at: 2/14/03 10:12:18 am
chela2020
Registered User
(2/13/03 4:41 am)
Reply 		Re: Falling Through the Cracks
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Edited by: chela2020 at: 2/13/03 3:26:08 pm
astral7
Registered User
(2/13/03 6:37 am)
Reply 		Filling in the cracks!
I do believe that SRF is divinely guided, if you can show a post where I have said otherwise - name that post. If it was said - like you, it was not meant to be said that way.
If you can't show where it was said, this would be just another example of the false rumors some like to start on this board?
Maybe you should change the name to SRF Rumor board!

Is there a any difference between a fundamentalist Christian and a Fundamentalist Ananda member posing as a disgruntled SRFer? Not much.

You wrote; "but I feel that it should be done in a respectful, intelligent, and non-disruptive way"
this brings up the question as to why any of you are on here!

Point is - whoever is not repeating your company line you are not comfortable with. You can't handle it.
With all the disrespect, unintelligent rumors and disruptive pretentious comments on this board - what are many of you doing here.

Anyhow chela2020 ; you did give yourself away when you wrote, "not because someone from SRF should not be on this board." Is this because it must be an Ananda board?

These recent posts on this page 7 seem right in tune with the people-bashing hobby of this thread. If you have nothing of value to say, or if you cannot handle hearing anything positive, I guess you are left with bashing to fill in your pages.

Keep up the good work boys, the more you do this the more readers of this site will know where you are really coming from.

I believe Self-Realization Fellowship is divinely inspired.

What does this mean? In this world it means a lot - but it does not mean perfection, (or especially someone’s uninformed idea of perfection which is still colored by a dark ego), look for that in another world.

Was Jesus divinely inspired? - I think so. Then you may ask -why did he choose Judas as one of his inner circle? Why did he wreck the temple tables in Jerusalem? Why did he tell his disciples he came to help the Jews - then later changed to tell them to baptize any believer. Did he not know his people would reject him? Why did he not realize at the beginning of his ministry the power tricks attracted the wrong king of people? etc.

Well - until we have some understanding of how this works, our judging of it can be empty and meaningless.

When one measures the bigger picture of the prophet like Yogananda, you might find (depending on your motives & understanding) that the degree of divine perfection/guidance He exhibited in that life far exceeds what usually takes place in this world, especially when building a large organization.

"Where everything the leader does or does not do is criticized." I guess we know who he was talking about - don't we!
"So let the dogs howl at the ever-shining moon" said Lincoln. It was a long time before any signs that Lincolns directions were inspired, many things were not going right for a long time, He stood alone in his direction, but the result was outstanding and the direction proved correct.
Even the endless string of failures of Lincolns life were positive and divinely inspired steps to that he would be the one to really bring America together - a great nation.

Things are not always what the seem or appear to be!
Only to the short-sighted, disruptive minds, and those of narrow view,
does "everything appear to be wrong."

Regarding such unfortunate would be teachers that the master accepted for training and didn't work out. That was his great heartedness, and very few were turned away. Even the human being exists in the face of his pitiful performance on this planet - is God not divinely inspired?

One of the Many great things PY did was to say, "I don't say that I never make mistakes." How many have said that - did Buddha, who like Tara Mata left a family behind to do spiritual work, did Jesus, who rejected his family in public.
Did Muhammad, who made the vainest claims of all, that His was the worlds "final and most complete religion".
They were all great prophets & did great work, but "anyone can find fault in the greatest works of are " Yoganandaji tells us. That is the nature of this world.

As time went on, Paramahansa Yogananda displayed that ever increasing creativity and perfection. Exactly why he chose or did not choose to do various things is not as easy to know as many on here keep pretending they know all about.
His contribution in many areas - especially of enhancing the quality of lives in this world which now measures in many millions, rates Him with the best examples this world has known.

What we do know, is that Yogananda made it very clear that those on Babaji’s SRF path will be loyal to the organization which is the culmination of this divine lineage - the Self-Realization Fellowship. And they are doing a lot of great work in this world.

Regards and Respect Astral.7

Edited by: astral7 at: 2/13/03 2:09:37 pm
astral7
Registered User
(2/13/03 6:41 am)
Reply 		Re: Filling in the cracks!
PS - Let's put an end to people bashing and concentrate on what can be contributed to make SRF and Ananda better organizations. Astral.7

chrisparis
Registered User
(2/13/03 7:24 am)
Reply 		Re: Filling in the cracks!
Those on Babaji's path will be loyal to the organization that represents the flowering of that lineage-the SRF...do you mean that those who are followers of the sucessors of Lahiri in India, who have never had anything to do with SRF, are being disloyal to Babaji in some way?
How intolerant of you Astral7...

chela2020
Registered User
(2/13/03 8:14 am)
Reply 		Re: Filling in the cracks!
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Edited by: chela2020 at: 6/25/03 11:23 pm
astral7
Registered User
(2/13/03 2:04 pm)
Reply 		Re: Filling in the cracks!
Dear Chela2020 and others;

Yes, I believe you when you say :"most of us are not in Ananda. Some of us have begun reading Buddhism, some have gone to Ramana's organization, others to Nisargadatta's, and myself to the Vedanta Society. Many of us are still here supporting each other in our own way."

So this leads me to pose another question.
If many (or some of you) are from so many other organizations, does this board appear as a gang up participation against SRF? This is something I might expect from other groups fearful of Yogananda's work in the west, like the “one-wayers”eg. Unless there is a great change in emphasis here – some will get that blind attack of SRF impression from reading many posts here.

What then does that really say about what is being done here?
It is as if you are either attacking to knock others down, or are in support of others who are doing just that. Some here are genuinely still hurting because of their real and presumed disappointments with SRF.
To those of you who support the approaches of this board against SRF. I am wondering just what you have been learning in your newly adopted paths? If this is the case – you can imagine how grateful we are to still be part of PY/Babji’s Self-Realization Fellowship path.

I use above the word presumed, because some of the matters brought up here appear seem emphasized just for defaming SRF, & based on imagined, misrepresented or unsubstantiated judgments. [such as blaming the org every time some volunteer gets it wrong or falsely saying A7 is someones plant]. This is what I mean about devotees of all paths taking so long, learning to read and listen. And looking at ones own faults - this one takes the longest!

Even though you proudly tell about your gurus example of not judging – it takes longer to learn it ourselves. Besides, why should your guru make any judgment based on just your side of the story? Only those who want to attack others proceed on that basis. Not conducive to inner growth!
He now has you as one of his own followers, and hopes that by now you are getting past the self-pity or self-hurt that made you specialize in fault-finding in the first place. He will no doubt be teaching you more patience by his own example.

If I also believe your possible idea about being here to help others through their hurts and trauma. The worse thing you can do for them is this negative support process that represents 95 % of comments here. It is one thing to do this in the privacy of a shrinks office, and an ignorant thing to do it in public.
Most here are mostly saying "everything about the SRF is bad. Lets bash them all."
The public approach of telling the world about your hurts while lashing out at everyone is an immature approach. Dealing with real issues will give less desire to attack persons you know little about.

This is as anti-productive for the assumed injured as it is for you own path. What does this tell us.
Only that it is the equivalent of those religious fundamentalists who are saying all other paths are wrong and damned. If you are on different paths – ask your gurus if He/She thinks what you are doing is spiritually productive.

When one is interested in healing and forgiving assumed wrongs, attacking everyone in sight is not the way to do it.

Such as this issue I know the facts on [contrary to some who have said Astral is an SRF plant]. Now if anyone has evidence that I was plant by any org - show it! Otherwise it should not even be mentioned.
I am sure someone from one of your orgs can still write "I have heard that so and so was planted."

This is the kind of stuff that I can simply throw back, not from fear or hurt, but to help the uninformed feel what it sounds like to some others who may be hurt by their lies on this board. That statement about my being a plant is clearly a lie! To even suggest it is to play with false rumors.

Aside from that, I am sure that those who are hurting because they were not dealt with compassionately or wisely with someone in the organization as they wanted to be, do need healing and understanding. Then there are some things that time and growth & self-confrontation may heal best.

Few of these persons will really be helped by much of these “anything goes” bashing attacks on an organization that you have yet to understand some things about, or you felt a member of didn’t understand your needs at some time.

Some devotees may be in the wrong place for the wrong reasons- or at the wrong time even. Most move do on from impatience and premature fault-finding. They keep saying "it's not me - it must be the tools."

Well 2020, thank you for your open and communicative post.

I would only say to others who metion the "company line".
It is not only orgs 7 execs that have them - it is also the mantra individal in a group of genuinely hurt souls bent on attacking an entity for whatever reason.

Regards and respect Astral.7

Edited by: astral7 at: 2/13/03 2:07:20 pm
chela2020
Registered User
(2/13/03 2:09 pm)
Reply 		Re: Filling in the cracks!
(This message was left blank)

Edited by: chela2020 at: 7/1/03 4:31 pm
Borg108
Registered User
(2/13/03 4:17 pm)
Reply 		Re: Filling in the cracks!
All your comments above are well said, Chela 2020. I might add that some of us are still active in SRF, trying to be like the little ant that takes away the sugar but leaves the sand behind. I still enjoy attending long group meditations and am sometimes inspired by something a monastic might say. I do my kriya every day and try to lead a life in accordance with my conscience and the instructions of my Guru. We are all given intelligence and discrimination for a reason. Over the years, it has become increasingly difficult to maintain my dedication to SRF, an organization that I came to learn from my own experiences promotes secretiveness, misinformation, rigidity and elitism. God is love, and love represents openness, acceptance, expansiveness and inclusiveness. Yet I see now that SRF has its place in the scheme of things. Persons with a similar mindset have molded this organization into one that suits their temperaments and gives them a secure and comfortable environment. SRF has been shaped into a new religion for the coming ages. Some sincere souls will be able to progress spiritually within that framework. But, like all religions, this one has its dogmas and its limitations, especially when it alters reality so as to ascribe perfection to itself and its leaders, rather than to God alone. I believe it was Vivekanandaji who said it is good to be born in a religion, but not to die in one. Toward the end of his life, St Francis had to back away from the monastic order that he created when it took on a life of its own that was no longer in tune with his inspired ideals. According to SRF headquarters, Yoganandaji has said that he will return to earth again in 100 years and live as a yogi in north India. I understand why he won’t be running SRF.

Edited by: Borg108 at: 2/13/03 11:18:32 pm
chela2020
Registered User
(2/13/03 5:35 pm)
Reply 		Loyalty is only to the guru
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Edited by: chela2020 at: 7/1/03 4:32 pm
chuckle chela
Registered User
(2/14/03 12:04 am)
Reply 		Re: Filling in the cracks!
Great posts, Borg and chela2020; refreshing. I agree with you. Like you, Borg, I'm still a member; perhaps unlike you I'm still holding on, sometimes barely, to the idea that significant change is possible within the organization by means other than ascension ceremonies. Time will tell. Chela2020, I am so happy for you.

For anyone else reading this: is there anyone else out there who agrees with Astral7? If so, I would sincerely like to hear your thoughts.

Finally, for Astral7: you wrote, "Let's put an end to people bashing and concentrate on what can be contributed to make SRF and Ananda better organizations." Sounds good to me (although as an SRF member, I'm not really interested in Ananda. I wish them well, but my focus is SRF). Why, then, did you proceed to contribute another long, crash-and-bash posting like some elephant loose in a china shop? No wonder chela2020 had a headache.

chela2020
Registered User
(2/14/03 3:02 am)
Reply 		Change
(This message was left blank)

Edited by: chela2020 at: 7/1/03 4:33 pm
Amidala of Coruscant
Registered User
(3/27/03 8:05 pm)
Reply 		Re: Filling in the cracks!
Many of us on this board like you because you are devoted to the path and doing what you feel is right. I do agree with you 100% that the techniques that Master gave us can never be exhausted. They are like buried treasure and you feel so much more Presence as you dig deeper. I love kriya with all my heart.

Still you must understand that people have been hurt. You must understand that people need to let it out sometimes and know that they are not alone and others are going through the same thing.

You know that this is not an easy path and for me the outer social structure of how SRF handles their socials has not been easy for me. It seems that it's the devotees outside the temple atmosphere that I conncect with. I apologize if this offends you. This highly has to do with my love for creative arts. I believed too long that I couldn't ever do anything special to Master because SRF devotees from the temple made me feel as if I might as well not even bother to do anything creative "because SRF already has their musicians" Okay that's fine but then devotees make it seem like if I go to another spiritual group where I can share the gifts that I feel in my own heart God has given me (and everyone has a special gift that they should use) that I am going off the path and not fully loyal to Master and therefore cutting myself off from his blessings. I am learning that I can do things for Master in my circle of friends and musical community even when it doesn't go into the archives of Mother Center's hall of fame. I'm sorry, but I always had the feeling like devotees would project in a subtle way that if I never performed for Daya Ma like a Ron Hart or a Ravi Shankar, then I might as well not even bother doing anything anywhere else since "it's not blessed" and "it's not sanctioned by SRF."

For the first time I am learning that it is okay to have friends and receive support from others. For the first time I am doing something for my Lord. I am publishing a very inspiring spiritual novel. Before, I would have kept it secret "because it's ego to want to do anything like that." I tried so hard to give up the fact that I love to create special things just because I wanted to please Master. But as I go through this process, I realize in my heart that even if SRF never sees what I made, it is still special to Master and he blesses it and he is with me just as much as he is with someone who wraps saris around nuns and paints elephant statues for Br. Satyananda. This is what I'm learning and healing through. to realize that I am special to Master and we all are even if we're not in MC's aristocracy. I don't have to wait to be recognized by a monastic in order to love Master and do special things for him.:rollin :) :rollin :rollin

astral7
Astral7 Level
(3/27/03 8:21 pm)
Reply 		Re: Filling in the cracks!
Hello chelas;

I wrote that last crash and bash - if it's the one I think it is? just to mirror what I was seeing in some posts of others.

Since then - with the help of all concerned, there seems to be an improvement in the tone of this board.
Oh, about the china shop - just bill me!

I know things will get better in time with/for everyone,
This is what is says on my mothers/fathers shared gravestone." There is no hurt so deep that time and love cannot heal."
It might be from the Bible - not sure.

Take care - fella chelas

Astral 7

Amidala of Coruscant
Registered User
(3/27/03 8:44 pm)
Reply 		Re: Filling in the cracks!
In answer to your comment "this brings up the question as to why any of you are on here!" Whoa! Hold it there, fellow padawan! We are not against Master. It is true that SRF is divinely guided as far as the kriya technque but wow I love the story about the Indian lady who never went to an SRf temple and just took the lessons and communes directly with Master! Yes!

You still are missing the point though. We are devotees of Master but sometimes we need to just let it out. It's healing to me to know that others also are in the same boat as me. Yes I do believe sometimes people can knit pick at things that have nothing to do with a relationship with the Lord such as all this concern over Master being a father. Even if he had been so what! Krishna had many beloveds okay.
And about the temple going into the sea. Well an Avatar does play the role too,.. Sometimes saints PRETEND not to know but wow you better believe it they know. They're just being an example.
I was pretty shocked when a devotee posted how Master said Mussolini was a great leader, but then I thought, well there's a saint for you. sometimes they say things simply to test your heart and because I feel Kriya Shakti, I don't question Master's actions. Kriya works no matter what the Avatar does outwardly. I heard of a saint who would throw pots and pans and his devotees and shout the foulest language but anyone who got hit with an object Oh Woww They got Shaktipat big time!!!!

Now in reply your statement: "Those on Babaji's SRF path will be loyal to the organization" What about Gandhi. He practiced Jainism. When he took kriya initiaiton, he didn't stop chanting his Rama mantra. He didn't suddenly give up his religion to only only only read SRF lessons and SRF books and nothing else. He still worshipped Rama. Loyalty is more in the heart than confining ourselves to a building. I believe Gandhi was very loyal even though he did his own thing along with kriya yoga. I belive and know in my heart because I feel Kriya shakti response inside that I can go to another group, support the music department there, and still be loyal to Master. I know a shaman named Dreamseed who is very loyal to Master even though he doesn't go to the temple. I can testify to this. His energy was absolutely God's presence 100%. Even a very prominent Brother of SRF (I won't mention his name for fear he might get in trouble by MC) encouraged me in going to SYDA Yoga since I felt it is intensifying my kriiya practice.

What we really perhaps need is to stop hearing MC put a guilt trip on us for not attending ONLY SRF lectures and not listening to ONLY SRF music and not reading ONLY SRF literature and not worshipping ONLY God in the form of ONLY SRF saints and not having ONLY SRF friends. This is where I think a lot of us have been hurt and this is the part that many of us are in the process of healing. We love Master and I enjoy reading some of your forums because you feel with alll your heart you are supporting Master and you express great reverence. Yes he is a great Avatar and dear to my heart and to hearts of many others here too. I realize SRf is reallly a place to worship the Lord and meditate but I also need to have friends who share my interest in the creative things that I love to do (most people at SRF temple are very conservative and turned off by home grown bhajans that me and my other devotee friends outside temple like to sing) and share with Master and other people. I cannot stay confined to the SRF temple. This is really the issue here that I'm on a healing journey about.

In all sincere regards Jai Guru
;) ;) ;) ;) ;)

Borg108
Registered User
(3/28/03 1:31 am)
Reply 		Re: Filling in the cracks!
Amidala,

It sounds like you have things figured out OK. It's good that we post such things so others can see that it's fine to function outside the bounds of SRF. The prominent brother who said it was OK for you to continue attending SYDA yoga if it helped your kriya practice was certainly going against the party line. I have a friend who wrote to headquarters years ago asking if it would be alright for him to do japa to Krishna and attend a Krishna temple from time to time. He was told that if he did so, SRF would stop sending him the lessons, and he could not receive kriya. I sometimes wonder if he would have been told this if he had said he wanted to sing Gregorian chants and occassionaly attend Catholic mass. But that's a whole other topic.

Edited by: Borg108 at: 3/28/03 3:03:16 am
Amidala of Coruscant
Registered User
(3/28/03 6:42 pm)
Reply 		Re: Filling in the cracks!
Thanks for your encouragement, Borg. One of my friends who used to be on Walrus mindtraveler7 told me that this was the reason that Brother didn't seem as friendly to me when he was transferred to another temple and Brother and I had our last talk.

Wow! That says it all the story you told me about someone wanting to do japa to Krishna. Wow!!! No wonder that prominent Brother also never reported to MC that he increased my kriyas each year. MC was shocked when I proclaimed to them that I do 84 kriyas. They only had me down as doing 36 kriyas, but then they zipped it when I told them that Brother ----- said I could. I shouldn't have done that. I was naive at that time and maybe "helped" in getting him ostracized from our temple. Wouldn't MC really have a fit if they saw what's around my altar! Ancient Egyptian deities that I even pray to sometime! The deities I like actually did Kriya type meditation and chanted Om too and They taught it and Bengalis even have a statue of one of these Egyptian deities I revere called Door of the South but that's way off the subject.

Anytime I worry that I'm going off the deep end, I just have to remember this ridiculous scenario: Master giving kriya to Gandhi, then sitting Gandhi down and saying, "Now Mohandas, now that you are setting yourself on the path of SRF, you are not to chant your Rama mantra anymore. No more worshipping Rama for you. You may only go to SRF lectures and no more Jainist religion!! And if you start chanting your Rama mantra then I'm going to take away your kriyas." (Smirk!) Yeah right! Master's probably saying "Give me a break!" And we must remember that Gandhi was one of Master's favorites. :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin

I was so mad when a Fullerton devotee cautioned to me that one devotee was denied kriya initiation just because each time she meditated (yes, she was doing SRF techniques) she saw visions of walking inside the Great Pyramid. I wondered for such a long time if I was going crazy but I am learning to see that applying Master's teachings, studying the Lessons on my own, and praying to the aspect of the Divine I feel drawn to, is beginning to come together in my life. What's really neat is Master is showing me others who are connected to him outside the SRF sphere and even some who are SRF kriyabans.

Edited by: Amidala of Coruscant at: 4/2/03 5:44:38 pm
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