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SRF Walrus > SRF Teachings and Ideals > Are the teachings bad?
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GregsBrother Registered User (1/14/03 1:35 pm) Reply	Re: . Soulcircle My deleted post on this thread was a message to Lobo saying "why did you delete your post? I read it and I didnt think there was anything wrong with it." But then I decided it wasnt my business to be scolding, so I then deleted MY POST! Sort of ironic huh? I do wonder why people delete their posts here. I think of it as just a conversation and a place for expressing ideas. If I say something wrong, then so what? Its just my opinion. So I dont delete my posts, with the one exception above. This is a fascinating site to read, and totally unique. I like it when devotees "take the gloves off" and just express themselves.
chuckle chela Registered User (1/14/03 7:35 pm) Reply	to Lobo & GregsBrother Thanks, guys, for your responses. Lobo, loved the baseball metaphor! All I can say is that if I were responsible for helping you understand and apply the teachings, I would have liked to have had an opportunity to help you appreciate that, indeed, you are the boat and that the wind is always, always there, and that it’s just waiting for you to put up the sail. What a beautiful metaphor of Ramakrishna’s! I certainly don’t expect that SRF or the teachings are going to solve every problem, cure every ill. That’s just not realistic. But I do feel, and your response encourages me to feel, that we in SRF could be doing a much better job in the teachings. GregsBrother, I loved what Greg had to say: “In my experience the teachings of India really work.” All I can say is “Amen, brother.” My experience, as well. The SRF teachings have served me very well . . . but I still think their presentation can be improved. You put it well when you wrote, “. . .and if you feel guilt instead of joy . . . then God is crying.” Yes! And we should be asking about this and wondering if something is wrong with our presentation. “I’m all for humanizing the whole thing,” you wrote. Yes! Perhaps we need to worry more about being really human than with being really “spiritual,” as silly as that might sound. I like what you have to say about this, brother!
chela2020 Registered User (1/15/03 4:16 am) Reply	Re: thank you those who maintain posts without full deletion (This message was left blank) Edited by: chela2020 at: 7/1/03 5:15 pm
chela2020 Registered User (1/15/03 5:11 am) Reply	Re: Are the teachings bad? (This message was left blank) Edited by: chela2020 at: 7/1/03 5:16 pm
redpurusha Registered User (1/15/03 7:41 am) Reply	Re: . GregsBrother, I wanted to reply to one of your messages in another thread but the function was turned off. I was a little bothered with you misunderstanding what I had posted and runnig off with that wrong understanding. Not to continue the thread, but simply to clarify, you wrote quoting me: *Quote:* "To "without SRF, you dont have a chance". Do I really have to argue against this obvious distortion of the teachings that was done to perpetuate an organization? No. In reality, what I said was that without a guru (any true master) you have little or no chance, quoting Yogananda's percentage formula for spiritual liberation. I don't know how you got SRF or Yogananda out of this as "exclusive" roads to God.
chela2020 Registered User (1/15/03 2:34 pm) Reply	Re: . (This message was left blank) Edited by: chela2020 at: 7/1/03 5:17 pm
GregsBrother Registered User (1/15/03 3:48 pm) Reply	Re: Stuff First of all, lets all turn off the sad face icon. This exchange of ideas is a happy thing! redpurusha, you said "I don't know how you got SRF or Yogananda out of this as "exclusive" roads to God. " To answer that question again, here is one example: Some monks who leave are told wrong things. Things that equate leaving SRF with rejecting Yogananda. That is one place I get that "exclusivity". It is very subtle. Anyway, you made your points well. I made mine as well as I could. If I leave a thread it's only because I feel my points have been expressed as well as I can express them. If you refute something I say, I am happy to leave it at that. I dont need to get the last post on a thread (although on some threads it looks like I am trying!). Anyway Bud, its all good!!!!!!! (PS As I was typing this I got a phone call. I have been offered a job at an excellent company, after being unemployed for nearly one whole year! WOOOOHOOOOOO! I I am dumbstruck with relief and gratitude. amen amen amen amen)
stermejo Registered User (1/15/03 6:11 pm) Reply	Are the teachings bad? are WE? chela202 wrote: ______________________________________________________ You often put him down on this board, but then you say, we should just realize that he is human. ____________________________________________________ Swore I wouldn't do this but here goes--- Maybe that's 99. 44/100ths % of the problem; HUMANITY. So tell us chela, or even you Mr SRF LA, whats so BAD about humanity, huh? Why is "being human, we're only human" mean `we're bad, dumb and /or prone to mistakes' ? Frankly, the ONLY thing worthwhile about Yoagnanda may be his humanity! And the other thing: "there are many enlightenened beings." Really? Lucky you. So, say 2,500 (and I'll bet that's high) for the entire planet of 5 billion. This is many? Now son (or daughter) this is a modern form of Socratic dialogue which you ARE good at BTW . And, soulcircle isn't attacking. Soul is something you may not have a familiarity with...a poet, even a romantic. You're too young to be aware of such things <grin>. No actually, I'm sure your generation must have heard of poetry and romance.
GregsBrother Registered User (1/15/03 8:37 pm) Reply	Re: Stuff ....sorry to get all "squishy" but isn't it cool that we are all here, drawn together by a common thread? Despite all the disagreements, I think this is a good thing. hugs me
soulcircle Registered User (1/16/03 2:13 am) Reply	very best wishes and support at your new job Gregs brother, new job with a good company Amen!! Thank you for sharing the good news High Five!! Sometimes a messenger with bad news is shot Converse/ You have good news and are embraced May we all express ourselves though my humble words.... each day find something to be proud of achieving we are proud of you especially if it is a thoughtfulness, in personal communication when you need to get in the storm of the pinch points know that more than our love, you have your guardian angel near most spiritually perhaps, remember remember/ that though you may not always have been patient you patiently survived this last year unemployed if it is of value to you, you have received the paycheck this last year, you have received the paycheck the "squishy" paycheck of our friendships Gregs brother we read your posts we sense between the lines we reflect on the strong heart of a noble friend one with roots within the goddess' heart of emotion and compassion for you are the one that touches us all, as we touch you loneliness has it's seasons with each of us every year that loneliness is god's teasing and my gentle laughter is my payback with you our payback reminding god to find time to worship~~ it is not always that cool to worship god i remember the evening i looked in on our 10 yr old girl [she is now 13] we never demand or enforced any religious attendance or ritual i looked in on our daughter's room and gazed with tears at her on her knees "worshipping" now if we step back several lines above ______ it is not always cool to worship god when we do so...... and miss that season among seasons that season/~~~~~~ when it is god's turn to marvel to marvel to marvel at the disciple ______ how cool to see understanding even higher higher than god knows of~~~~~ for in the disciple the poet plows virgin germinations of love from hate of saint francis's prayer that germinated and grew as your roots grow in rich human emotions more profound than god is found to be loneliness......so when god teases us with loneliness let's give god payback.....and research the divinity of disciples......at times more sacred than goddess herself patience....let's not minimize your patience this last year and "squishy" as squishy is~~~~ goddess finds the patience she needs for this world of ours In Your Example you made a believer of ~~~~~soulcircle~~~ thank you brother
GregsBrother Registered User (1/16/03 4:17 am) Reply	sTUFF, REDUX Edited by: GregsBrother at: 2/14/04 7:47 pm
GregsBrother Registered User (1/16/03 4:29 am) Reply	Re: very best wishes and support at your new job ERG! My posts sound so stupid! Disregard everrything I say, everybody. Thanks (But at least i leave them as they are , no deleting...my moronic-ness is ever on display...)
chela2020 Registered User (1/16/03 4:54 am) Reply	Re: (This message was left blank) Edited by: chela2020 at: 7/1/03 5:18 pm
soulcircle Registered User (1/16/03 8:22 am) Reply	lovin da short fat angry guy as an old friend...oh so warm loving guru, [cringin to see guru/monastic/celebrity worship] marveling at each face, tellin each face the value of self-love especially the living faces, and the fingers typing in here yogananda hasn't typed in here you all do and.... seek understandin~~share~~care~~WOW~~much obliged Edited by: soulcircle at: 1/16/03 8:27:31 am
chela2020 Registered User (1/16/03 9:54 pm) Reply	Re: (This message was left blank) Edited by: chela2020 at: 1/20/03 9:02:12 pm
chrisparis Registered User (1/17/03 7:52 am) Reply	Re: lovin da short fat angry guy as an old friend...oh so wa Hmmmmm. I can't help thinking that all the participants in the kriya yoga movement have let themselves in for alot of the "angst" being expressed on the board at this moment. Here is my small attempt to explicate what the problem is: "PY was a Guru. More than a Guru- an Avatar. He isn't merely a human being, he is God realized. He is like a little bay that is aware of its connection to the vast ocean. He appears to be a little body of water only to those who are standing on the little strip of beach, but to those who set sail on him, they find he is the eternal ocean. Eternally deep, eternally broad." "PY is only human. His anger, his attachment to food, his (alleged) dalliance with female disciples are human failings. We shouldn't expect perfection in him." Do you see the contradiction? These two contradictory points of view are expressed daily on this web-site. I think they may be a major root of the dissonance we experience in following the path of kriya as enunciated by PY.
soulcircle Registered User (1/17/03 1:42 pm) Reply	dissonance chrisparis, please tell us more what is your direct experience with the mere words "eternal ocean?" that is one question tell us more of this dissonance, could you? from your experience, not from others' experience, could you? and when, and if, time allows since this feeling is of import ~~~when you have established your answers to the above two questions when time allows, again return to the interplay between the calm....the light....the unity [i have had a smalal experience of this ocean] the interplay between that wondrous mischievious unity with all people and the strife/dissonance in our lives _____on the lighter side___________ in a relaxed moment i had a hilarious feeling: what if none of us had ever experienced strife, but on the other hand experienced the eternal ocean continously for decades, would "gurus" exist to show us the path to strife? circle Edited by: soulcircle at: 1/17/03 1:45:26 pm
wholetruth Registered User (1/21/03 7:25 am) Reply	Re: lovin da short fat angry guy as an old friend...oh so wa Chris: There are those here who adhere to your first statement--about Yogananda as Avatar or, at least, great master--the vast majority. There are those who believe the second statement--Yogananda as only human and subject to human frailty--a handful. There are those who don't give a hoot anymore and have left this message board a long time ago. And then there are those, like myself, who aren't sure--again only a handful? We see him as a remarkable person but can't decide in what ways he was remarkable.
chrisparis Registered User (1/21/03 9:19 am) Reply	Re: dissonance Dear Whole Truth, I would like to congratulate you on a truly ambiguous comment . Precisely! Remarkable in what way? A remarkably developed spiritual person? A remarkably developed occultist? A remarkable con artist? "Remarkable" covers sooooo much ground. Until he shows up in a vision or dream and tells me himself, I am giving up on trying to answer the question. Re the question posed to me by soul circle: I have had contacts with the Eternal. I never had them through the intervention of any human being, guru, whatever. They came only through contact with "the Master Within". I personally believe that it CAN'T happen any other way. I think kriya yoga can lead to this state, but it comes through the turning within, not through the intervention of PY or anybody else. I also have come to think that the "Brotherhood of Kriya Yoga" (to coin a phrase) most certainly DOES NOT hold a monopoly on a technique which leads to these contacts. Even PY always qualified his remarks by saying that, for example, St. John obtained the vision of Revelation through the kriya technique OR SOMETHING LIKE IT. I believe there are, as Kipling put it, four and twenty ways of constructing tribal lays, and every one of them is right. Peace to you all.
wholetruth Registered User (1/22/03 7:54 am) Reply	Re: dissonance Precisely, Chris! You completed my thoughts quite well about his "remarkableness." I feel that I will probably never know the answer as I never met him and spent time around him. I have to admit, however, and so do you, that the vast majority who spent time with him, including some highly spiritual people, found him to a "remarkably developed spiritual person." The dissenters have been very, very few, or at least they never went public! Edited by: wholetruth at: 1/23/03 7:35:48 am

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