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SerenityNow7
Registered User
(12/24/03 2:57 pm)
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kriya, just the facts please
(I was going to post this on the other thread, but decided it would have gotten lost admist the flames, so I'm starting a new topic.)

I've been away for a few days, found this thread and look what a barroom brawl this board (at least this thread) has disintegrated into! Such a sad thing given we are all such spiritual people here...

I for one would love to see an actual thread about the pro's and con's of Kriya, how it impacts people on initial practice and after 5years, 10 years, etc. How do people who have done it compared with other meditation practices consider it? I've found little bits and pieces of actual information in these threads which are quite intriguing, but more would be nice.

Merry Christmas everyone :hat

sn7

soulcircle
Registered User
(12/24/03 9:18 pm)
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kriya, just the facts please
Is this recent post of Punk Yogis helpful? I agree with it.

Quote:
Kriya Requires Creative Action

What Kriya does, in my opinion, is it amps up the nervous system and allows it to become more acute and perceptive to subtler waves of information. This acquired sensitized acuity does not automatically guarantee a certain set of behaviors.

The idea is to internalize the bliss and allow it to wield lasting impressions on the nervous system. In SRF parlance, this means "holding on to the effects of meditation." Brother Turiyananda often reminded us of an infrequently mentioned piece of advice of Yogananda's to centralize all the feelings of bliss into the brain and hold that feeling there for an extended period of time. This , he said, multiplies the results. One could then do it at the heart center or any other part of the body.

Most of what's being talked about involves two categories of Kriya practitioners: Bliss Bunnies and the Non-Resulters.
The Bliss Bunnies are just that -- people who regard spiritual joy as some yummy carrot they can munch on whenever their little rabbit tummies feel hungry. But this is not creative; in fact, it inevitably leads to the fetishizing of the technique, turning it into some mystical totem with the power to do all the work those passive little rabbits ought to be doing for themselves.

Inevitably, life catches up. Remember the old computer term GIGO (Garbage In, Garbage Out)? What we put into life, or don't put into it, is what we get out of it. I ask the following: What are we doing with that Bliss? How are we utilizing it? Or are we allowing life to happen to us? Are we latching on to the values of the SRF organization only to discover that our lives don't work out because the SRF value system has elements to it that are thoroughly contradictory to our authenticity?

We are creative beings. The fundamental premise of what it means to be creative is that we have the freedom to make choices and witness the results of those choices. Kriya, in my opinion, simply makes us a more sensitive radar dish. A sensitive radar dish can pick up good information or bad information. It still rests on the individual to act responsibly with what he or she's been given. This is where SRF has gone wrong. It encourages people to abandon their independent thinking for the sake of loyalty and devotion. What many ex-members are trying to do is experiment with keeping the best of both worlds -- amping up with Kriya without surrendering one's own authenticity. This often means a wholesale break from the organization and its fascistic reliance on style over substance. Each person has to handle it in their own way.


Finally, there are those who experience no results and claim the technique actually ruins lives. This is naive. It's like saying, "Hey Joe! you've been practicing piano for years, why are you still just an amateur. Shouldn't you being booking recitals at Carnegie Hall? How come you aren't even half as good a player as Vladimir Ashkenazy?"

Now, let's say a music academy comes along and advertises: "With our patented technique, we can have you playing piano at the same level as Ashkenzy in five years." So Joe puts his money down, and in five years all he gets a gig doing musicals for the school of the deaf because nobody else wants him. Now Joe's depressed because life didn't work according to his plans. Who's to blame? The academy for making false claims but also Joe for being gullible.

The "frightening" truth is that we're all creative beings. What we get out of life is to a high degree dependent on what choices we make and how we implement those choices. Adding weight to this is the environment and unforeseeable events. But there it is. I think Kriya is still an excellent tool if used artfully.

SerenityNow7
Registered User
(12/25/03 8:57 am)
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Re: kriya, just the facts please
Hi Christmas Circle ;) PY's post starts to talk about it...but then veers off to talk about bliss bunnies and non-resulters. What I'm interested in is more of an interior description of what it's like...

For example when I practice any "focus based" meditation technique which could be focusing on the breath or a word/mantra I get a set of experiences along a similar line. Usually thoughts slowing down sometimes ceasing, tension draining out, a sense of expansion much larger than my body, sometimes I see lights/colors and sometimes a wonderful sense of bliss. A very deep meditation can leave a long after taste of the bliss aspect for a few days after even if I don't meditate again. These aspects vary in their intensity and presence depending on how often I've been meditating and a lot of other factors which I can go into if anyone is interested.

So I'm curious, is kriya like this or is it an entirely different meditation experience??? And if it's different, how is it different?

Thanks!

(YB, I respectfully request that you do not jump on this thread to say what I described is loss of blood flow to various parts of my brain. However, I would certainly welcome the equivalent description of what the salvia experience is actually like.)

Edited by: SerenityNow7 at: 12/25/03 9:04 am
SerenityNow7
Registered User
(12/26/03 7:37 am)
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Re: kriya, just the facts please
Looks like you guys aren't inspired to talk about this? Or everyone is just full of Christmas turkey? :rollin

etzchaim
Registered User
(12/26/03 1:36 pm)
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It's all in the spine
I'm trying to figure out how to talk about it.

My practice is divided into several things that have worked for me, not just Kriya. With Kriya proper, I usually become much more centered, it increases the intensity with which I see internally, I'm aware of the flow of energy up and down, and can tell when there I'm being to tense or 'tight'. It produces a bliss state, and probably is a chief cause of many of the realizations I've had, along with a couple of other important factors.

I dove into doing Kriya in my mid 20's. By my early 30's it was making me ungrounded, but I wasn't very grounded to begin with. I was basically living in the apartments I was rehabbing or paying very low rent, working part time at bookstores, making some artwork but not much and doing yoga. That it ungrounded me is not very surprising, I was anyway. I've had to work at opening up my base chakra. Massage, oddly enough, has worked the best, along with Hatha, and work on my earth life - starting with getting over the fear and revulsion I had for some of it, including my own career.

I usually feel more of the flow of energy when I'm bringing it down, which to me indicates that I have trouble grounding, duh, and I'd prefer to hang out in heaven and be blissful in la la land. So I focus on bringing it down with a purpose, and am much more involved in trying to live my earth life, which is currently trying to find a way to make a living with creative work, I have an art degree, and withdraw from being a wage slave, than on having an elaborate spiritual life - I try to meditate twice a day, though I'm more disciplined about the morning one, limit my Kriya to what is comfortable, which can change often, but is never more than 15, for quite some time, and go to a religious service once a week (a bunch of meditating, singing Jews, actually, on Saturday mornings) and do a half hour to an hour of Hatha Yoga daily.

To me, a good part of Kriya, as practice and as philosophy, is keeping myself in balance. The focus on the spine is important, and fundamental to the teaching, from what I can tell. You can add what ever religion or metaphysical/philosophical system you want to it, or not have one at all, perhaps. The more aware I've become of the chakras and the energy in them, through the techniques, but also through study, the more I can tap into what my subconscious is doing and work with it, so it becomes conscious and I can bring issues I have up to the higher levels and understand them better. The rotation of the energy is what pushes this along, and it starts with a little amount being taken up from the seat of the Kundalini and then brought around to all the levels of consciousness, front and back.

I generally find that experiences I have in my spine are related to having done something or thought something, so when I'm doing things that are balancing me out, or whatever, I will feel some kind of movement or burning in the spine or on the right or left hand side of the chakra. When how I'm living is producing less balance, my chakra's shut down and even my muscles in my back will become more rigid, so the energy will not flow as well.

Rigidity appears to be a problem in blocking the flow of energy, and in bringing about self destructive patterns or getting locked into destructive situations. I imagine that if I breathed a lot of Kriya and I had many blockages, it would cause a good deal of trouble, so the physical exercises are very important, as is introspection, and an effort to consciously remove issues, or reactions to things, that form blockages, so I find that the Hatha yoga practice is vital to clear things up. I can't say how Yogananda's energizing exercises affect people, but classical Hatha is really amazing in what it can do.

I think that techniques can only take you so far, but that Kriya is a very useful one, and one of the more balanced and powerful ones, but you have to use it mindfully.

Edited by: etzchaim at: 12/26/03 1:41 pm
SerenityNow7
Registered User
(12/27/03 1:59 pm)
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Re: It's all in the spine
Etzchaim, thanks so much for sharing your thoughts and experiences about this. Finding out more about kriya is important to me because I see it as a next step after I feel like I've mastered Hong Sau. At the same time, messing around with those spinal energies is a little worrisome to me from a safety point of view because I've heard how it can go wrong. I'm quite sure I have at least one significant blockage so I want to be connected with a group that can give me good guidance when I get started with it...and based on what I've read here, I don't think SRF is going to do that! I had a spontaneous kundalini experience a few years ago where it rose partway up and stopped. It was a positive experience and I don't think I've suffered ill effects, but it's led me to want to investigate very thoroughly anything messing with those spinal energies as I'm convinced of the power there.

"...work on my earth life - starting with getting over the fear and revulsion I had for some of it,..." I really identify with this. I think I am very reluctantly incarnated here and have had trouble with grounding related issues most of my life. So your focus on being physical and taking care of your physical life sounds like good advice!

You've mentioned before that kriya speeds up evolution or change in one's life. Is this just general change, or does one experience more of one's bad karma more frequently (egads!)...what are your thoughts on this?

etzchaim
Registered User
(12/27/03 3:33 pm)
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Re: It's all in the spine
Serenity, if you want a more hands on group and want to remain within a similar SRF format that isn't quite as Corporately weird, the Ananda group seems to be very good. They are very open about working with individuals using the techniques. My own Temple is in Chicago, so that would be farther away for you, and there's a center in Michigan that is run by another disciple of Yogananda that appears to be good, which I'll check out this summer.


As soon as I feel energy going up in a spiral motion, from left to right or right to left, I immediately stop whatever I'm doing. Going up either side will activate the karma. If you are feeling it going up straight and it is not uncomfortable, then the heat you feel is burning up the karma and blockages. You want that to happen. Anything that is uncomfortable (beyond just feeling heat or movement) should be stopped. You can do this by refocusing on physical things, eating (even meat is used in situations where the kundalini is not controllable). I've found that I go through long periods of just using massage and Hatha Yoga with very simple meditation, like empty mind and hong sau. Also, I spend a good deal of time going around the whole chakra system, one chakra at a time, and focusing on keeping in the center of the spine. That sets up a 'track', so to speak, for future energy patterns, so it tends to go up in the center. The consciousness used in doing this will activate the central channel and the chakras. I can recommend a very good lecture on doing this that you might be able to get through Amazon. It will give you the shapes, colors and bija mantra's that Kriya uses in the chakras. I think it's called "Meditation and the Chakras", but I'll have to look it up. It's from a lecture series that my Guru gave.

The idea is to keep the Kundalini energy slowly going up the center (where it's safe) and rotating so that you can remain balanced and keep progressing. The blockages will push it to one side or the other, so going fast is not the ideal, despite how Kriya is 'marketed'. The heavier karma will burn up first - which is usually what we experience as 'bad' karma. Once you get through the heavier stuff (you can literally feel the blockages in interuptions in the flow of the energy), then making faster progress is easier. Many of the changes I've noticed are really having to do with my level of consciousness and awareness.

If you are moving too fast, it is much more difficult to process new awarenesses, or to handle the fact that you've outgrown your earth life and can't relate to the people around you. Many people run into trouble when their consciousness starts entering into the Astral plane. Most people are completely unaware of any activity there, so when 'voices' are heard, or people 'get visions' or become aware of different and more subtle levels of reality, not being able to process, keep things in perspective (that cannot be emphasised enough) or control and understand what is happening can lead to difficulties and often unhealthy responses. It's important to be able discuss what is happening with someone who has also had experience with higher states of awareness (not many people though...) and to work whatever it is into a stable daily life. This is one of the reasons why a good Guru is valuable.

The other thing I've noticed is that people, because 'new' things are happening to them, feel 'special', when in reality all this is very natural, so they blow themselves and their experiences out of proportion and develop delusions of grandeur, etc., or think that they are enlightened when they are simply just becoming more conscious. This is always a problem in 'religion', and needs to be guarded against with a good amount of introspection, questioning, humility and reality checks.

username
Registered User
(12/28/03 8:30 am)
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lack of oxygen
there is a military exercise where the troops are put in a "lack of oxygen state" so they will know what it feels like. The symptoms vary by individual.... some feel a tingling sensation in parts of their body or their head, some feel euphoria.

The military teaches its troops their individual reactions, not so they my become enlightened, but so that they will know that it is time to put their oxygen mask on.... before harm is done to their system.


Sounds like the same symptoms as kriya.

ugizralrite
Registered User
(12/28/03 3:07 pm)
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Re: kriya, just the facts please
Having been away for a few days and involved in merry making, I would say that kriya enables us to break bread with the pure consciousness that resides in the spine, brain and nervous system. It is a small yet deceptively subtle step using jnana (wisdom) yoga to reason that the pure consciousness within us is also the same as that in all others and in all things.

The thing about kriya is that, as advertised, it draws the energy away from outer involvement temporarily by a direct and understandable method. Then when we enter into social life and work we have a point of reference as to what is really going on. The consciousness is manifesting all about us in various forms or disguises. Kriya allows us to experience pure consciousness. I think of it as a still-point wherein we see the gemstone unobstructed by the reflections that appear to us as the world.

Ultimately we try to see the reflections as being qualities of the gemstone of consciousness itself. Perhaps the question could be, "What is really going on here?" Kriya reveals a doorway to the answer.

When I think of the word consciousness, I am thinking of con (self) sciousness (awareness).

YellowBeard420
Slow Down
(1/1/04 11:26 pm)
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Re: kriya, just the facts please
> Serenity wrote: "I for one would love to see an actual thread about the pro's and con's of Kriya"

Under the 'SRF Teachings and Ideals' section there's plenty of threads on Kriya such as 'What's Kriya Done for You'. This thread is a bit misplaced. YellowBeard doesn't mean to be a stickler on details here, but it's just that there's so much material on this board already and there's no pause in the amount that's coming in. So it's a good idea if we place our threads carefully when starting one. Also, it's a good idea to check to see if a thread we're interested in starting has already been started. This way we bog down this information exchange as little as possible. And another noteworthy mention is that there's a lot of good threads here from years ago that we would do well not to bury too much.

> Serenity: "How do people who have done it compared with other meditation practices consider it?"

What YellowBeard would like to do is respond with some quotes from a gentleman named Forkhand who use to post on this board some time ago. He recently posted on YellowBeard's board under the Kriya section there. He made some really good observations that YellowBeard feels are worth sharing here to offer a counterpoint to the sea of positive reviews here. YellowBeard will then add some follow-up comments of his own.

These are largely the toned down bits. Sensitive readers may not wish to read beyond this point. These statements of one man's experiences with Kriya are sharply made, but YellowBeard feels that it's important for this perspective to be heard. Once again, for those who do not wish to view a strongly critical view of Kriya, please refrain from reading further.

> Forkhand (12/25/03): "They think that they can achieve an altered state of consciousness by trying to fall asleep consciously. ... I hope you all see the light (and by that i mean not some esoteric light or metaphysical light, just normal, commonsense, everyday usage of the word 'light') ... all you are doing is sitting down in an awkward position for hours and IMAGINING that you are feeling different in your consciousness when in fact you feel no different WHATSOEVER. ... Every single Kriya Yogi and devotee (which is just a nice way of saying SUBORDINATE HUMAN BEING) and every hopeful devotee (Which is just another way of saying I AM STUPID) ... Anyone that has done Kriya Yoga KNOWS for a FACT that it does not do ANYTHING. Please do not for the sake of TRUTH, delude yourself ANY MORE PLEASE! ... IT doesn't do anything. It does NOTHING. ... IT is a sham. IT is the greatest waste of LIFE that a person could EVER EVER indulge in. ... You will never ever hear anything anywhere which contradicts the idea of Kriya Yoga being some sort of evolutionary method of emancipation."

YellowBeard feels that the last sentence is particularly important to note. All the information presented on Kriya is always positive. We're trained to give that type of response.

Haven't we all heard about something described in a convincing and impressive way, and then told friends and/or family about it? Then we order that neat little trinket that's suppose to do so many wonderful things, and when we actually get it, we find out that it's a piece of junk basically. What happens? We feel embarrassed and ashamed, so we try not to face the fact that it's not what it was claimed to be. We shamefully continue the facade that it's a wonderful thing because we don't want to feel like a fool that's been duped.

YellowBeard feels that this is part of what takes place with Kriya. But the main issue is that we've been programmed to praise it. That's what our religious training has taught us. There's entire books out on Kriya Yoga that *literally* do nothing but praise Kriya and not even give the technique. Entire books -- imagine that. We have to think carefully about what is happening here regardless of our views on Yogananda and even Kriya Yoga itself.

It's been sanctified, idolized. It's like being in the presence of a saint. We're suppose to bow down before it every time we pass it. We have to imagine that all the good that has come our way is a result of kriya -- and boy, where would we be without it, what terrors it has freed us from. Since Kriya is a technique and not a physical entity, we cannot bow to it with the body, we bow to it in words -- we wrap garlands around it with our speech. This is what we've been trained to do.

If Kriya is truly an effective tool, why would we need to do this? If we use a hammer to drive a nail, we don't need to 'believe' in it. It stands on its own just fine and does the job. We don't have to say, "God bless the holy hammer of might".

If gurus are here to truly help us, why do they want our praise and devotion so badly? When a decent person helps someone, they just help them. They don't try to get them to offer praise. In fact it's natural for us to say, "it's no problem, don't worry about it", when people tell us thank you. In other words, we don't need anything in return. Now why do these so-called gurus of higher evolution need our praise, money, and devotion? Are they higher than us, or perhaps lower? Are they con-artists? The reader is surely upset by these words, but they would be wise to weigh them carefully.

Getting back to Kriya, we're taught to praise Kriya because when we praise something, we're not really looking at it. Think about this carefully even though it may be hard to face. It's like when we bow to someone, we don't see them directly. When we praise Kriya, we're not looking at it objectively. And if someone is trying to scam you, they're going to want you to not deal with the thing that's being pawned off on you directly.

This may sound kind of complicated. Maybe looking at it this way will help. It's like if someone is trying to sell a shiny rock. What do they do? They call it a special crystal that will balance their such-and-such chakra, which in turn harmonizes the pranic fields of the inner and outer worlds. People really do this. Check out your local New Age shop and you'll see it in action. They're really selling rocks to people, this is not a joke. The fancy words are to get you to not look at the rock directly. The words get you caught up in the labyrinth of thought, and then you don't see that you just have a cold rock in your hands.

> Username wrote (12/28/03): "there is a military exercise where the troops are put in a 'lack of oxygen state' so they will know what it feels like. The symptoms vary by individual.... some feel a tingling sensation in parts of their body or their head, some feel euphoria.

> The military teaches its troops their individual reactions, not so they may become enlightened, but so that they will know that it is time to put their oxygen mask on.... before harm is done to their system.

> Sounds like the same symptoms as kriya."

This is how Kriya is given the illusion of working. We breath in a controlled, strenuous way. They call it something special -- pranayama. It alters consciousness a bit as Username has described. We then think that we're moving towards the Divine when in actuality we're just responding to altered oxygen levels. This is why Hong Sau is one of the first meditation technique we're given. We're taught to breathe in a way that decreases our oxygen levels. This makes us punch-drunk, so to speak, which gives us the illusion that it's doing something 'mystical'.

We know that Kriya Yoga does not work by objective evidence. Just talk to any Kriyaban you know. Anyone, take your pick. We then find that we're not talking to a very Self-aware person.

Punk Yogi
Registered User
(1/3/04 4:11 am)
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One Man's Meat is another Man's Poison
When some say they love Kriya it may be with the same ardor as one who praises a Stradivarius violin, or Mac computers, or Mercedes engines, or Italian suits. There are simply some things in life which are exceptional of their own accord, and, in some lives, Kriya is one of them.

What Yellowbeard proposes is that we undertake a rational and objective look at Kriya to see if it really works or not. This may be difficult unless we all agree on what we mean when we ask, "Does it work?"

To enhance our perspective, let's consider a different debate entirely –– the one which pits the best modern violins against violins made by Stradivarius in the 1600's. Pay special attention to the last sentence of the following passage quoted from an online physics magazine...

Quote:
Science has not provided any convincing evidence for the existence or otherwise of any measurable property that would set the Cremonese instruments apart from the finest violins made by skilled craftsman today. Indeed, some leading soloists do occasionally play on modern instruments. However, the really top soloists - and, not surprisingly, violin dealers, who have a vested interest in maintaining the Cremonese legend of intrinsic superiority - remain utterly unconvinced.

Maybe there is an essential aspect of violin quality that we are still failing to recognize. Many violinists say they can distinguish an instrument with a fine "Italian Cremonese sound" from one with, say, a more "French" tone, such as my Vuillaume violin. But we still do not know how to characterize such properties in meaningful physical terms.

What we need is more research, with high-quality violinists working with psycho-acousticians, scientists and sympathetic violin makers, to make further progress in solving this challenging and fascinating problem.

physicsweb.org/article/world/13/4/8



Perhaps Kriya hasn't had its day with the guys in the white lab coats yet, but here we have confirmation that Stradivarius violins have been X-rayed, analyzed and scrutinized in every conceivable manner. Though there is no convincing evidence of any measurable property that would make Stradivarius' superior, all the greatest violinists of modern times believe it to be true.

At this point, Yellowbeard is stroking his beard. The gears in his skeptical mind are turning as he suspects that these great virtuosos have been had as victims to an effective propaganda campaign funded by violin dealers. Suddenly violin dealers are added in effigy to Yellowbeard's brightly glowing bonfire of sham operators.

The author of quoted passage could have easily written the following:

Quote:
Maybe there is an essential aspect of Kriya that we are still failing to recognize. Many yogis say they can experience finer energies and expansive states of consciousness using the technique. But we still do not know how to characterize such properties in meaningful physical terms.



Punk reads Username's, Forkhand's or Yellowbeard's posts and can't relate to their lack of success with Kriya. He reads Etzchaim's posts and says, "Ah! there's someone who knows what I've experienced." But regardless of our differences, Punk still agrees with Yellowbeard that we ought act less precious around our spiritual tools and just rate them according to their actual and not imagined performance. To do this, we first have to agree on certain terms. And therein lies the rub. We haven't even got past disputing what we mean by a technique being effective, what we mean by enlightenment, what we mean when we talk about spiritual benefits.

Since Yellowbeard has rightfully asked us to clear all needless distortions from our thinking, I would also ask him to model such virtues in his own communication. For example, Yellowbeard points out that many devotees have been programmed to praise Kriya. He beckons them to be more objective. But in many of his comments, he relies on pure slant to get his point across. Here are several phrases about Kriya or Kriyabans which I've scraped from the dregs of his last post:


Quote:
that neat little trinket that's suppose to do so many wonderful things, and when we actually get it, we find out that it's a piece of junk basically

not what it was claimed to be

a fool that's been duped.

the thing that's being pawned off on you directly

if someone is trying to sell a shiny rock

then you don't see that you just have a cold rock in your hands.

This is how Kriya is given the illusion of working


Basically what Yellowbeard wants to tell you is that Kriya is a worthless gutter stone and that anyone who praises it is a fool who has been duped like the Emperor's New Clothes. Ironically, Yellowbeard himself really isn't a champion of rational query after all, for he drops in like a sunshine superman kicking down the idols which enslave your sight but then smokes up the room with joss sticks lit to his own idols of skepticism.

Anyone who has tasted the sweetness of Kriya ecstasy, felt its expansion and seen the inner light merely gets the feeling that Yellowbeard (as well as Username and Forkhand) have unfortunately tasted too many sour grapes.

Edited by: Punk Yogi at: 1/3/04 4:18 am
username
Registered User
(1/3/04 6:13 am)
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Re: One Man's Meat is another Man's Poison
Punk,

Please outline your life. And point out especially where it is that you think Kriya is "burning your karma" to such a degree that you will reach enlightenment in this lifetime.

Perhaps you can tell us what direction your life was on BEFORE kriya and where it is AFTER kriya.

Some people had strong direction in their life before kriya and became wandering no--mads after.

Others were drug addicts before kriya and religious addicts after.

dawnrays
Registered User
(1/3/04 6:57 am)
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Re: kriya, just the facts please
Yellowbeard,

Can you tell us exactly just what you PERSONAL experience with kriya is? That is, how many years and so forth? It seems to me that if you are jumping on the bandwagon of one or two people's negative or non-experiences with kriya, you are doing exactly the same (or worse) than somebody who is praising it on mere heresay. However, I don't see anybody doing that here. I personally don't know of any whole books which do nothing but "praise kriya". Nor do I know of too many people who really talk about it (even in srf). As a matter of fact, one of the more stupid rules (I always thought) in srf, was not to talk about our "inner experiences" to others. What they were afraid of, I don't know. It seems this rule mainly applied to the rank and file, as naturally the "higher ups" seemed to be able to break this rule. Some, even quoted ad nauseum.

But, getting back to kriya. Kriya is the greatest and most timely gifts ever to hit these shores. Captain, have you looked around lately? If only you could take your fervour to reform something that really needed it! How about the United States! How about this pathetic, drug addicted, obsessive compulsive, obese and violent country? You dare to complain about someone's sincere bhakti devotion to a saint or a Master (I am not talking about being subservient to an organizational hierarchy, as in srf. Anybody who critisizes thier blantant and immoral use of a Master's image to trap people into thier cult, is doing Master and mankind a great service, in my opinion. I am talking about devotion, here) when kids in this country worship and look up to "divas" and other such plastic idols and seem to worship violence? How many movies about Masters? How many about serial killers?

Kriya cleanses the body of substances. I can verify that personally. I was addicted to both cocaine, alchohol and tobacco. Now that is not to say that I have not had many, many problems with kriya (I have). This has only shown me that it is a powerful technique. You cannot have extreme results one way or the other unless there is power to the technique. Also, Captain, I am surprised that you would critizise a technique that helps to open and harness the kundilini energy up the spine. Did you not mention that you had a major kundilini experience before? Drugs can open up chakras prematurely.

Many, many people are having kundilini problems, these days. It's practically an epidemic (also known as bipolar, sometimes).

I have done kriya for about 17 years. I usually get very blissed out from just a few kriyas. It oxygenates the blood, not the opposite. I don't see the lights or have any visual experience (though my husband usually does). But a couple of years ago I started going into the physical, mental and emotional blissful state after the first few. No, I don't get the same experience holding my breath.

username
Registered User
(1/3/04 10:19 am)
Reply
Re: kriya, just the facts please
Kriya is a pranayam technique. IT IS NO BETTER, OR NO WORSE THAN ANY OTHER PRANAYAM TECHNIQUE. Maybe, 50 years ago , these techniques were not well known. Now, they are known far and wide and the information is found without looking very far.

Kriya is supposed to be kept a secret because that is all SRF has to sustain itself.

It seems that SRF could save a hell of a lot of expenses on mailings etc, if it asked people on its mailing list to return a post card if they wanted to continue to receive its mailings. The mailings would probably decrease by 95 per cent!

Until you stop doing kriya and remove yourself from the SRF environment you are unable to see SRF and kriya clearly.

YellowBeard420
Slow Down
(1/3/04 2:51 pm)
Reply
More on Posting Etiquette and then on to Kriya
To start off, YellowBeard has an experiment for Needthestar. Worry not, it's short and painless. Hit on the "back" button on your browser. You should find yourself in the Core Issues section of this board, unless you've come to this thread via a link. If this is the case, simply click on the Core Issues link in the upper left hand corner. Now you're looking at all the threads under the Core Issues section. Scroll down and you'll notice a lot. But this is only the tip of the iceberg. There's 5 pages of posts under this section, the oldest one being started in 10/16/01.

This board has been around many years and will surely be around for many more to come. Every time we start a thread, we bury deeper these great treasure troves of information here. There's many posters from years ago (that will not return) who have started some great discussions on topics that may never be discussed again, or to the same depth and particular angle. We should respect these old discussions and veteran posters of this board by burying them as little as possible.

My point here being is that there was no need to start another Kriya thread. Here's how you started your thread:

> "THIS THREAD IS MY RESPONSE TO THE COMMENTS MADE ON THE THREAD "KRIYA, JUST THE FACTS PLEASE", AND IS DEDICATED TO GETTING TO THE BOTTOM OF THIS TOPIC. THE "LEGITIMACY OF KRIYA" ARGUEMENT IS GETTING OLD - LET'S ATTEMPT TO END IT ONCE AND FOR ALL BY COMPARING AND CONTRASTING KRIYA PARTICIPANTS EXPERIENCES."

Now here's how Serenity started this thread:

> "I for one would love to see an actual thread about the pro's and con's of Kriya, how it impacts people on initial practice and after 5years, 10 years, etc. How do people who have done it compared with other meditation practices consider it? I've found little bits and pieces of actual information in these threads which are quite intriguing, but more would be nice."

As you can see, they've been started to discuss the exact same thing. Yes, threads do stray from their original focus. It's our jobs to bring them back on focus if we feel that we want to delve into the original issues. There's no need to start a whole new thread to do this. When we do, we create unnecessary spam on this board making it confusing to try to follow discussions. Also, if we want to re-find a discussion that we found interesting, it becomes more difficult to do when we start unnecessary threads.

Even this thread is unnecessary as I've mentioned before here. Kriya threads belong under the "SRF Teachings and Ideals" section. And if we take a peek over there, we'll find and excellent thread on this topic started by Ugizralrite entitled "What's Kriya Done For You" where he concludes his opening statements with:

> "What has kriya done for you, seriously, I'm curious."

This is the Core Issues section. No matter how dear we may hold Kriya, Kriya Yoga (as taught by SRF) ultimately belongs under the "SRF Teachings and Ideals" section.

Some may question YellowBeard's motives for saying this. Is it because he does not care for Kriya? No. YellowBeard has been speaking on these issues of respecting the board when he first came here. His tune has always been the same on this regardless of the topic being discussed. He has protested against "YellowBeard" type threads starting up that were unnecessary. Why does YellowBeard want to respect the "old" threads on this board? Did people agree with his issues more back in the day? No. In fact, YellowBeard has not read many "old" posts that he does agree with. But that's not the point. This is not about what we agree with or not. Information that may not be of use to us, may be of great value to another. The discussions of old here were largely intelligently discussed and deserve our respect regardless of our personal views on the issues. And even if we just want to focus on what's currently being discussed, it's best for all of us if we carefully post, meaning putting our threads in the right section (as best as reasonably possible) and taking a little time to glance through the topic titles under the section to see if it has already basically been started by another. We can then add to that discussion instead of starting a new one. If we do this, we'll help to keep this board the valuable information source that it is instead of degenerating it into a chat room.

----------------

Punk Yogi,

YellowBeard likes your description of meditation techniques being compared to violins. This is appropriate because meditation is an art, and our meditation practice is a tool or instrument in this art. Regardless of YellowBeard's views on the subject, you've made a very good argument here.

> Punk Yogi wrote: "Yellowbeard points out that many devotees have been programmed to praise Kriya. He beckons them to be more objective. But in many of his comments, he relies on pure slant to get his point across."

YellowBeard is simply attempting to pull off all of the garlands that are wrapped around Kriya. There's so many that we can't really see it clearly. This process surely appears very disrespectful.

> Punk Yogi: "Basically what Yellowbeard wants to tell you is that Kriya is a worthless gutter stone and that anyone who praises it is a fool who has been duped like the Emperor's New Clothes."

The stone that YellowBeard compared Kriya to was the smooth, pleasant looking ones that are sold at New Age shops as a type of talisman. This stone of Kriya may be very pleasant to touch and behold, but YellowBeard wants to point out that it is simply a type of rock as all meditation techniques are. He believes that the special "magic" (that artificially lifts it above other techniques) associated with it can cause problems for some. Perhaps this garlanding effect done to Kriya is actually helpful for some. One could probably make a very good argument for that case. But YellowBeard feels that ultimately the garlanding effect creates dogmatism and intolerance of other approaches. Isn't this why YellowBeard's jnana approach (which is far from original) brings on so much rebuke? Isn't this garlanding effect responsible for Christians killing and torturing others because Jesus is suppose to be the one true savior (to use a large scale example that we're all familiar with). Garlands may be pretty and even helpful for some in their spiritual efforts, but ultimately is the price-tag worth it? YellowBeard feels that it is a spiritually immature approach to view Kriya as some super-advanced vehicle given to us by the immortal hands of Babaji when in fact it's just a type of pranayama-kundalini technique.

-------------------

> Dawnrays wrote: "Can you tell us exactly just what your PERSONAL experience with kriya is?"

YellowBeard has done Kriya for approximately only 4 years. Most of the regular posters here have done it much longer. But YellowBeard is the type that tosses aside that which does not work. He's gotten better results from a *few weeks* of concentrated practice of other techniques such as Zen koan meditation and the practice of choiceless awareness. YellowBeard feels that he kept up with Kriya and SRF way too long. He believes that Yogananda's messianic approach kept him ridden with guilt about leaving the guru which nailed him down in SRF and with a practice that wasn't working for him. YellowBeard's message is just for those that have experienced problems with Kriya and the guru-disciple relationship as well. If Kriya and Yogananda's approach works for some readers, then Godspeed to you down your spiritual path. YellowBeard is not here to try to stand in anyone's way.

> Dawnrays: "Kriya is the greatest and most timely gifts ever to hit these shores."

YellowBeard believes that you are making this comment because of your lack of exposure to other meditation techniques.

> Dawnrays: "Kriya cleanses the body of substances. I can verify that personally. I was addicted to both cocaine, alcohol and tobacco."

YellowBeard would be so bold as to suggest that it was your spiritual efforts that helped you get over your addictions. In order to actually take the trouble to order and put into practice the SRF Lessons, you had to be spiritually motivated in the first place. It's like going on a diet. Did the diet make you lose weight, or was it your motivation to lose weight that did it?

YellowBeard says that Dawnrays should be empowered and not Kriya. People respond to YellowBeard's message antagonistically. The funny thing is it's not for YellowBeard, he's not trying to steal anything from you like gurus do. He's doing the opposite, he's yanking your innate power out of Yogananda's hands which has been stolen from you and handing it back to you. YellowBeard is a pirate after all, and it takes a rough person to bring some street justice to guru bullies that are out to enslave others.

YellowBeard would like to see Dawnrays and all the readers not to call anyone Master (unless you are willing to call the homeless people on the street you kick out of your way Master as well). YellowBeard wants the readers to be Self-empowered and not dependent on particular gurus and meditation techniques. These things should serve you, and not the other way around.

-----------------

> Username wrote: "Kriya is a pranayam technique. IT IS NO BETTER, OR NO WORSE THAN ANY OTHER PRANAYAM TECHNIQUE."

Agreed.

> Username: "It seems that SRF could save a hell of a lot of expenses on mailings etc, if it asked people on its mailing list to return a post card if they wanted to continue to receive its mailings. The mailings would probably decrease by 95 per cent!"

Indeed. SRF continues to spam people for years on end. It's a huge waste of money and paper.

needthestar
Registered User
(1/3/04 3:30 pm)
Reply
Re: More on Posting Etiquette and then on to Kriya
YB - thank you for taking the time to share the other threads and to respond to me.

I'm looking for a concise thread that doesn't meander...which is hard to find on Walrus. A pure treasure of actual Kriyabans relaying personal information on their technique...I don't see anything like it out there. General comments - yes.

My thread has a specific purpose: for those who claim to perform or those who discredit Kriya to list very exact Kriya related information based purely on their own practice of Kriya.

Is that not the purest way to debate Kriya's worth?

By weighing out comments based on individual experiences rather than what one's read or heard or thought about Kriya?

Why compare military issues to Kriya when there are those on this board that actually practice/practiced Kriya such as yourself and Punk Yogi?

I'd like to see it all laid out on one table.

Lets leave SRF out of the equation and focus on Kriya.

More specifically I want to know what you and Username (*please see footnote below) have to say about your experiences are with Kriya.

I think that's fair.

Are your experiences negative? Let's talk about them...your experiences...no one else's.

I am not approaching this with wrath, nor being a smart ass, but I have an honest question so as I can weigh out things for myself.

How am I to know if I really want to practice Kriya or not?

The questions are simple: please tell me how long you practiced, etc.

Worry not, it's short and painless.

Please tell me how can I take anyone's comments seriously - especially if they are negative - if I don't know if they've actaully practiced what they're preaching?

For instance my father used to tell me how stupid engineers are: one problem, he's not an engineer nor picked up and read one book regarding engineering.

So what's his words worth?

Even if he had read thousands of books on engineering, his word is pretty much worthless until he's actually APPLIED those thoughts and theories...right?

Otherwise he's an "educated idiot" so to speak.

So please understand, if I take you and Username's word for it..that Kriya is a waste of time, then don't I become like the mindless robots who hunker down with SRF?

Fair?

Please feel free to post on the thread I started....I love to hear you experiences with Kriya. The thread is started - what's buried is buried.

Until then I think it's fair to assume that you both really have no experiences to share. (I have since read that you have four years of Kriya experience - great - would love to hear more...be more specific if you could?)

I honestly welcome both you and Username to set me straight.

peace

*PLEASE NOTE* I have misjudged Username. I thought Username had no experience with Kriya Yoga and therefore made Username's statements baseless. Username has contacted me via my inbox and has shared with me that Username HAS EXPERIENCE with Kriya but does not want to post those experiences here as they are private. Username's remarks are NOT without merit. - thank you

Edited by: needthestar at: 1/3/04 5:15 pm
dawnrays
Registered User
(1/3/04 4:21 pm)
Reply
Re: More on Posting Etiquette and then on to Kriya
YB,

I can appreciate that you have your own message, but for me, Master's message does not contradict yours. I feel that he empowered me and that he has further empowered me by the gift of Kriya yoga.

I am not running down other techniques, however, any technique is going to require some kind of instruction from some teacher of some kind.

I have had addictions and have known other people with them. Sometimes just "wanting to", which many people want to do very badly and oftentimes die trying, just isn't enough. I wonder how many people know, for example, that AA is successful only around 5% of the time? These statistics are terrible, and yet I don't see too many people running down AA.

I certainly am proud of my spiritual efforts. My kriya is as much mine as it is Master's. Naturally, I see it as a tool, however, because I have had problems with it or others have, I do not feel inspired to run it down.

Also, I do not kick people I see in the street. If you can refer to your habit (which some find annoying and condescending) of referring to yourself in the third person as a "spiritual practice", perhaps you can bear with my habit of calling Yogananda "Master". I do not find it demeaning and a great "Self" such as you, should be able to take in the habits and customs of others, don't you think?

It is not much of an advertisement for your own spiritual practices (whatever they are or were) to be so antagonistic and disrespectful to the spiritual beliefs and practices of others, by the way.

OneTaste
Registered User
(1/3/04 5:19 pm)
Reply
Re: More on Posting Etiquette and then on to Kriya
Quote:
&#65279;It is not much of an advertisement for your own spiritual practices (whatever they are or were) tobe so antagonistic and disrespectful to the spiritual beliefs and practices of others, by the way.


Ah, don’t be so hard on him, dawnrays. Here on this board he respects so much, he is actually behaving himself compared to his own board. Here’s what he thinks of folks here when he doesn’t have to play nice.

Forkhand: "They are shitheads. Complete morons the lot of them."

Yellowbeard: Agreed. It's like trying to talk to the dead when trying to explain some simply common sense to 'em. Their minds are so wasted from doing these repetitive mind numbing techniques, they just can't hear anything other than what they've been programmed to hear.

needthestar
Registered User
(1/3/04 6:30 pm)
Reply
ROTFLMAO
So which is it YB??

Am I a Sh*thead or a complete moron? :lol

Watch for flies on the wall 'cause the like landing on the sh*theads and then dancing on your dinner plate!! :rollin

YB - check your inbox - you've got mail!

Edited by: needthestar at: 1/4/04 7:25 am
SerenityNow7
Registered User
(1/3/04 9:41 pm)
Reply
Re: ROTFLMAO
Many thanks to those who've added a little more concrete information to this thread.

etzchaim
Registered User
(1/4/04 2:37 pm)
Reply
Re: ROTFLMAO
Oy, yoy, yoy! I am a Ship of Fools.

In my personal bio, I wandered more when I was younger. Kriya cleared me of a lot of anger, and continues to be a useful tool in my current issues (which are more about foundation building) but I would never rely on just the technique. I agree with Dawnrays in another thread, where she says that Kriya is also physical. Being a Pranayama technique, it would seem to bridge a gap between the mental, or the emotional, and the physical. However, there's much more to the technique than just doing the technique. I find that once I can understand a chakra and the issues involved in it, I'm more conscious about how to bring the energy into everyday life, through planting it, or breathing it through, a chakra with all it's symbolic collection of energies.

I also rely on other methods that Have Worked For Me (emphasis on the relativity of this), like Depth Psychology-based Astrology, Personal Myth and Dream analysis, Hatha Yoga and chakra work and working at reminding myself that I need to ground myself more than bring the energy up to the spiritual.

Getting at deep physchological issues seems to be more the key to having lots of things work better for me, including the Kriya.

I can relate to someone having difficult experiences with Kriya, but can't relate to someone having no experiences with it whatsoever, and I can relate to understanding it purely in negative material terms, like it's just hyperventilation. I always have stopped breathing it if I was getting uncomfortable and while I've experienced personally the benefits (and some of the pitfalls), it's difficult to express the experience in a way that people who have not had similar experiences can understand, and nearly impossible to describe to someone who wishes to not understand (meaning understand from my perspective, because they, of course, do understand from their perspective).

and vice-versa, I suppose.

I do think some inititial 'devaluing of Kriya' needs to be done, particularly for peole in SRF who have been told that it's an 'elexir'. It is really is just a technique, and techniques can only do a certain amount of the work. As far as techniques go, it's quite good, though, but there are quite a few other factors involved in becoming conscious, or more conscious, at least, and Kriya is only one set of techniques. One of it's great values, I've found, though, is that it's adaptable to many symbol systems.

Breath and consciousness, rotation around an "Axis Mundi" that has within it centers of nerve/mind 'mass-energy' transformers of sort (those would be the chakras/sephirot) that link the world of creation with the physical, manifested world. These are universal patterns - too universal to be hogwash, and I've seen my own progress.

It's important to understand that individuation and development of the self is an ongoing and sometimes very arduous, sometimes very scary process. Kriya is a very fundamental tool. It works with a very primal energy and can move a good deal of consciousness down the axis of our minds, in the lower nerve centers, and bring unconsciousness up to the light of day, but it's only one of the many tools we each should be working with.

Kriya might even be a bad tool for someone to be using at a given time in their lives, or it might need to be balanced by something else.

Another issue I've seen, is sometimes we are not bringing the energy back down, perhaps because we think the 'spiritual' is better, or we have a judgmental attitude to the physical - it's Satans lair, so to speak, and we denigrate it and have issues with it. This way we become ungrounded and we need to balance that out by wallowing in the earth plane for a while, and not being spiritual, till we have our bearings back, but then we end up being more spiritual because we, hopefully, have gotten over the prejudice against the earth plane that caused our problem to begin with. The bias against the earth plane in our culture and we've separated mind from matter, or the spiritual and the physical, and called one 'good' and one 'bad', so a repression may have occured of just basic, and perhaps very spiritual needs for physical relationship, or contacts with other humans, or anger (then we may become 'passive aggressive', may get depressed, etc.), or whatever is being repressed.

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