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SRF Walrus > Life on the Inside > Monastic Life - why they leave or stay
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Deep Unregistered User (2/4/02 6:03 pm)	Bimo Bimo keeps his head down, probably has to look the other way once in a while, but almost certainly sees his staying as being local to Master. He is a kind and wonderful, uncomplicated man. Notice that even though he was with Master for years, and those who meet him universally feel his love of God, the bad ladies ignore him.
satyagrahi Unregistered User (2/9/02 2:05 pm)	nuns? I see a lot of comments about monastic life relating to the monks (ie men). What about the nuns? Do they have such similar emotional, stress, power, and environmental problems? For instance, there is a lot of discussion that sounds like power mongering women controlling men. Certainly in such a situation the nuns would have a different environment. What is it like? Do the nuns leave and become as disillusioned at the same rate as the monks? KS, you listed 5 or so myths and rebukes for [monk] monastic life. Do they accurately apply to [nun] monastic life? Thanks.
KS Registered User (2/9/02 4:04 pm)	Nuns No, the nuns side is more abusive and warped. Left alone the monks side might clean itself up, but the higher level nuns maintain tight abusive control. The life of the lower level nuns is a living hell. The ones who survive have serious issues and rise to the top on the pain of others. I'm not sure those words are strong enough to describe it, but that will do for now.
Sevaki Unregistered User (2/9/02 10:39 pm)	On Nuns... Yes, I strongly agree. I have seen subtle and outright meaness and emotional manipulation. I don't know how these things are expressed on the monks' side, but on the nuns' side, it's all about underhandedness and backbiting. Look, some of the nuns are wonderful, really really wonderful human bouquets of divine love, but some are deeply unhappy, troubled women. And when people feel anger, or hopelessness, or depression...something's got to give, and these emotions often squeeze out as poorly executed human interactions. For me, I definately feel tremendous sorrow for those in the ashram who are on both the giving and the receiving sides of these "interactions." I have seen nuns crushed by others, and totally wrapped up in a familiar mind-game: "Is this a teaching from Master? Am I being punished by God? If I were a good nun I would not mind this. It's my fault. I'm really good for nothing I guess..." On and on. This, dear friends, is called "the myth of personal culpability." Like women with abusive spouses, they know something is wrong, so it must be them -not the abuser. And they can't get away, so they sta and watch their self=esteem, creativity, joie de vivre, slowly ebb away. On the flip side, I actually do feel compassion for those doing the "oppressing" (I say that because I DO think the nuns, and probably monks too, are oppresses in many ways). They are clouded by their humaness, and reponding in a twisted way to their own inner anguish (whether they realize it or not). Why else, would one person treat another in an unkind way? So, that too, is very sad. I'd just like to add that there is one huge thing that really bothers me about the ashram. It boils down to one word: GOSSIP. Sounds benign, butt don't let that fool you. It can be one of the cruelest tricks in maya's bag. And sunk many a ship. Still, in my heart, I'm not sure the SRF gates need a sign procliaming "Abandon ye hope, all who enter here..." BUT it's not what members think it is.
Kevin Registered User (3/8/02 12:15 am)	monks who stay Daya mata's family took over SRF and the new regime set its rules. Once Bimalandanda told me that he saw master's face in Daya Ma a few yrs. after his mahasmadhi and it was decisive for him in staying. But at the same time one must realize that monks and nuns who knew Yogananda have retained a clout who not even the directors could ignore. Once a very, very senior mata remarked: "I don't know why they don't touch me, maybe because I knew Master!" Bhaktananda has been an embarassment to SRF in more than a way with his quite independence and since he loved to mix with people the Hwd. temple fit him well and vice versa, and the directors have been glad too.... Bimalananda was even more independent which for their rigid structured way of seeing it, it often equals embarassment, more or less founded that might be,etc. Monks who just want to try to be monks can more easily make it by staying out of the fray! A nice post in a small ashram is usually the easiest way. And appreciated by the organization as well for obvious reasons.
convocant Unregistered User (3/8/02 8:24 am)	Angry, bitter nuns in the ashram *Quote:* Look, some of the nuns are wonderful, really really wonderful human bouquets of divine love, but some are deeply unhappy, troubled women. Amen! Ain't that the truth! I will never forget my first SRF Convo. I was so full of bliss and love and happiness at being here with a few thousand of my fellow devotees. I had a few administrative issues to iron out so I went to the appropriate desk, which was being run by nuns. I have never forgotten how angry and bitter those women were! Their anger and bitterness just sliced right through me, felt like knife! One of them, the one that was "helping" me with my stuff, was really giving off some serious man-hatred, her eyes were on fire when she spoke to me, and her whole face just had such a look of disgust and rejection toward men. Everytime she turned to the other nuns her face softened and she forced a smile and spoke friendly, but when she turned back to me her whole face just spit fire. I hung around to see if she did this to others, and confirmed that she was nice to any women, but the same way she was to me toward all the men. I never forget, on the last day of Convo I was waiting for a friend at the top of the escalators, which were full, and I didn't notice her coming up the escalator until she was right in front of me. When I turned around my eyes met hers, which were glaring at me, and the negative vibrations she gave off were so strong! I realized this woman must have some serious issues which she probably thought were going to be resolved when she entered the ashram, but which have only gotten worse inside (probably through contact with other women who think like her and the whole ashram culture which pits the men against the women). Her vibrations of hatred were so strong and powerful I haven't been able to forget them to this day. That's how incredibly powerful they were. This was such a contrast to most of the other monastics who just beamed with love the whole week.
Been there Unregistered User (3/8/02 9:55 pm)	The "man-hating nun" Don't know if this has relevance to your story, but maybe you would be interested to know that the nuns are trained to be distant and cool to men. The old guard sees this as a protection from getting lost in delusion by falling in love. This is insane of course.
X Insider Registered User (3/24/02 9:29 am)	To Shamila Maybe the Walrus will start a new section for you. In the meantime, you might want to look in the "Specific Stories" section.
gardendiva Registered User (5/10/02 4:06 pm)	Why they leave... I just wanted to bring something up that frequently troubles me when speaking with other devotees regarding monastics who have left the order. First, no one (and these are just your mainstream, average, temple go-ers, who don't get "inside" information) seems to acknowledge that nuns leave as well as monks. I'm thinking that maybe the numbers are lower for nuns, but I'm not sure on that. And of course, since they are not in the public eye, it's not as obvious when they leave. Secondly, I can't believe how often I hear that monks leave because they have been "seduced" by women. And it's amazing to me how often women devotees will put the blame for this on other women. I have heard devotees take personal offense (or at least that's what it seems like) over a monk leaving the order, and they have been particularly vociferous if they believe that whole thing involved a woman. Perhaps that is the easiest way for these people to make sense of this issue....I don't know. But it's sad to think that people can't be more open-minded and non-judgemental regarding the decisions that other people (perhaps they don't consider monastics ordinary people) have to make with their lives.
unmonked Registered User (5/10/02 8:55 pm)	Re: Why they leave... Interesting points, gardendiva. I think a lot of the "high profile" monks who leave due to romantic involvement get involved in a relationship because they are in the public eye. Most monks who aren't that high up the ministry ladder and just work at jobs within the confines of daily asram life usually don't have opportunities to develop relationships with women. I think a lot of "inside" monks (who most lay disciples have never even heard of) might be driven to leave by difficulties in living a celibate life, as well as many other reasons, but are probably not involved in any romantic or sexual relationship when they leave--they just want out. I could say a lot more about why I personally left the ashram, but I really don't know how representative my own case might be. I certainly had no chance to get involved with a woman when I was in the ashram. I don't know about nuns and why they leave. I did know of one Sister who left many years ago after becoming involved with a man, a lay employee who worked like an outside consultant for her department.
KS Registered User (5/10/02 11:37 pm)	Re: Why they leave... Just as many nuns leave as monks. They are not as widely known as the monks so SRF is able to keep it more quiet. The abuse of the nuns is worse than that of the mens side in many cases. I know of few cases where a monk left due to a women. The atmosphere within SRF does not provide a monastic environment which allows people to grow spiritually. Therefore they look for something else or leave to avoid the abuse and try to regain a spiritual atmosphere.
gardendiva Registered User (5/11/02 12:04 pm)	Re: Why they leave... KS...you wrote: "I know of few cases where a monk left due to a women. The atmosphere within SRF does not provide a monastic environment which allows people to grow spiritually. Therefore they look for something else or leave to avoid the abuse and try to regain a spiritual atmosphere". You see, so many people don't have a clue about this. They tell me, "Oh, in SRF we have 'techniques' so that sexual energy is channelled." Then if a monk (the ones that interact with lay disciples) leaves, it was a woman's fault because, well, her seduction was more powerful than his adherence to the techniques?? I gets pretty wacky, the thinking. I would like to turn on many of my devotee friends to this board so that they could have a broader view of things. However, I have my own problems with being a "people pleaser" and know that there are very few of these folks who would be open minded enough to read the posts, without getting defensive and thinking it all a bunch of nonesence. When I get myself centered enough, I might suggest it to some. I have found the posts here to be very thoughtful and, for the most part, non-contentious. There seems to be a true desire to heal and make sense of many complex issues. Some of the other message boards I've come across have really turned me off, but this one has attracted souls who have a deep desire to understand, something that I'm continually trying to do in my own life, in many different areas.

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