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KS
Unregistered User
(11/1/01 9:22 pm)
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personal vendetta?
Quote:
From Shadowman “prove it” 11/1/01
My concern is, if you continue to criticize the SRF leadership without moving towards an examination of causes, you may end up giving the impression that you are basically in this to smear former employers, supervisors, and heads of the organization for personal reasons.

First off, very few have substantiated their complaints. From the angle of an outside member, it doesn't put you in a favorable light if you liberally toss around terms like "abusive" and "bad ladies" but keep us in the dark about the details. With this tack, you set yourselves up to be percieved as complainers (Labels are subjective judgments. What one considers abusive, another might deem tolerable), OR others may wonder if you are using them to fuel a personal vendetta.

The last possibility is the one that worries me the most. Playing people off one another by spreading misinformation or exaggerated information may be one way to deal with imbalances of power, but it is a soul-corrupting endeavor.

If the intention of this board is to reach out and inform members outside the SRF work environment of real problems then you are working at cross purposes when you critically label without substantiation and then respond to those requesting proof that you either can't give it (because it would jeopardize your identity) or you don't see the need to prove a point to someone who didn't work or live there.

IF YOU MAKE AN ACCUSATION, YOU CARRY THE BURDEN OF PROOF.

To Shadowman and his “prove it” post:
I have to agree with your comments. We probably would look like complainers to some. I would say that there ARE specifics here but there are so many messages now you might miss them. I won’t repeat them again here; this thread is getting pretty long. But I would make two points:

1)        This board is anonymous for a reason. Specifics reveal sources in many cases and there is a widespread fear of what SRF would do to people. This fear is felt by insiders who know what SRF is capable of.
2)        Those of us who have seen the dark side are discussing our issues here. Our aim is not to convince others. I would not have believed any of this until a few years ago myself.

You wonder if this is a personal vendetta? Another good point. Might be. After so many have been hurt I would imagine that some might want to strike back --- not the highest of ideals. We feel getting hurt at a simple place like SRF is pathetic and disturbing. SRF, Master’s SRF, hurts people who come in contact with it? What?

The desire to strike back is an indication of how much they have been hurt. 25 monastics have left in the last year, and the employee work force is mostly pretty disgruntled. Something is wrong.

To be honest, I see a lot of restraint here. I have seen and experienced some of the behavior these people are referring to. They have a right to be really really upset at the unfair treatment. If you have not seen it yourself I am surprised you are here contributing.

Shadowman
Unregistered User
(11/2/01 12:16 am)
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followup
No KS, there's a misunderstanding here. Permit me to explain:

The affected are not merely employees of SRF or ex-monastics. No. There is a swelling constituency of members who have been hurt by SRF cuture without ever having had a Mata or a work supervisor so much as look at them crosseyed. What me and a few others on this site are trying to do is link your experiences to ours so that we might discover a grand principle behind the diversity of grievances.

What is frustrating for us is when those of you who represent the "inside" don't get our drift. I never got the feeling from Walrus that this site was a grievance board for solely for employees and ex-monastics, though they certainly need one to air their pain. If this is all it is, I apologize and will humbly take my business elsewhere. But my assumption has always been that we are in this together, we all own a fragment of the puzzle. All the proverbial "blind boys" must be heard, if we are to comprehend the big white elephant in the room.

I personally find it interesting that I took my leave (from involvment with SRF) about the same time as many of the monks were contemplating theirs. I though I was alone in this, so the SRF Walrus site has been very revelatory and fortifying for me.

One suggestion. Consider tranforming your stories. Tell the situation without naming names. This way we at least get at dynamics. Names aren't important anyways; the type of thinking, the hows and whys of it, are. Otherwise, all we're doing is spinning our wheels here. I mean, how many different ways can you spell "trouble"?

Rigiditananda
Unregistered User
(11/2/01 12:57 am)
Reply
We know the root causes -- that's the paradox!
I agree with Shadowman that we have to move on. We need to find the root causes, and get away from gossiping about the "good ladies" and so on. I understand the value of catharsis, but much greater is the value of understanding. Please, please, please let us all make an effort find the root causes of these paiful issues. We know those causes -- that's the paradox! Let us unite our minds in an effort to bring to consciousness what we already know, but we are still denying -- Rigiditananda

Rigiditananda
Unregistered User
(11/2/01 2:01 am)
Reply
Are the teachings safe?
Dear Ezboard op.

I want to formally request to you to open a new subject at the main menu: "Are the teachings safe? We got to move to the root causes. If you want people like Raja Begum, Shadowman, and myself, and others that we plan to bring to the debate, to continue participating, we need space to discuss deep, deep issues. The root causes of SRF problems are in the Teachings -- nowhere else! It may be painful for many of us to face it, because still we want to believe in Master's infallibility, but denial is not a choice already. And, we need to learn to love Master with his falibility! Even avatars make mistakes, and yes, their teachings become outdated.

Were this not true, God would have sent ONLY ONE AVATAR AT THE BEGINNING OF TIME AND NEVER COME BACK AGAIN. However, He keeps coming and coming. Master left only 50 years ago, but during these "few" years, science, technology and and most especially social sciences have brought to humanity the most powerful paradigm shift in 3.000 years! It is not Master's fault, it is just the way it is.

I'm sure the SRF BOD hardly know this, because they read little of psychology, science, technology and spirituallity. They keep thinking most things are like in 1950. But the truth of the matter is that this 50 years left our techings outdated in many, many crucial subjects. Not the essence, but very important aspects like advises on nutrition, marriage, couples relationship, and most especcially the psychology embeded in the teachings which is completely outdated.

Furthermore, the advice contained in the Lessons on how to nourish the body, how to purify the mind psychologically, and how to relate to your partner are not considered safe today -- NOT TO MENTION THE HOW TO RELATE TO YOURSELF. We can see the effects as we learn of nuns with bulimia, monks with suicidal depresssion, and devotees with nutritional deficiences.

SRF still gets away giving this unsafe advice to thousands, and reklessly plan to expand it to millions! However, this is unthinkable with the present state of affairs. This cannot last. Today, any professional who gives dangerous advice to their client or patient is liable. Unless SRF becomes much more cautious and takes appropriate meassures, it is not difficult to foresee that many will soon sue for serious damages to their lives. It is extremely easy to prove in court, lessons in hand, that many advises given in those lessons are very dangerous for the devotee.

Thanks in advance, and feel free to use this message to initiate that new subject in the home page

Thanks -- Rigiditananda

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