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kolorado22 Registered User (1/25/04 11:26 am) Reply	Re: Stepping Up to the Plate Nag/Chela: Since you think you are doing Yoganada’s devotees a service by exposing Yoganada as a fraud, would you be so kind as to provide some proof for these various accusations you have made? By the way, proof is not 4th or 5th hand hearsay. Provide the names of those who have witnessed these events and where they have written about it. Better yet, have them come on the site themselves. If you can’t provide any evidence, why bother to post? Except maybe out of spite or because of your own psychological problems? YB seems to be able to dig up some background for his assertions, why can’t you? Chela’s Assertion #1 <Before that, we had taken Kriya together at Mother Center, and being the psychic that she is, she said, "There is no spirituality here." Then she began practicing Kriya, and after a while she said that it was dangerous, that allowing the kundalini to rise in that way is harmful.> My comment: Admitedly Kriya is quite powerful, but I have been practicing it for 30 years and so have about 30 friends of mine. So far no one has quit because of it’s harmful effects, tho some have quit because they were bored. How long did your psychic friend practice and what was the basis for her claim that it was harmful? Chela’s Assertions #2 <it is his claiming Swami Dhirananda's writings as his own, not paying what the court asked him to pay when Swami Dhirananda won the case. it is how he used his siddhis on another person to try to prove that he was powerful or whatever the reason. it is also the fact that he didn't know the sadhi mantra that all swamis know, and was then asked to drop the title of "swami", which he did, just to take up another, "paramahansa."> My Comment: Pardon me but these don’t seem to be guru-busting offences. But since they are in your mind, put up evidence please or stop repeating these claims (like twice a day). Chela’s Assertions #3 <“… but they also left him because they believed without a doubt that he was having affairs." > <When Swami Dhirananda came back to America he found Yogananda living with another woman> My Comment: This is right out of guru-bashing 101. Many folks belive this tripe because other gurus have fallen in this way. This is a powerful accusation. If you throw it out without proof you prove your irresponsibility and your instability. Just because the nuns lived in Mother Center near PY that does not mean he slept with them. There are plenty of ex nuns on this board, why don’t you have one of them verify this? Chela’s Assertions #3 Re: Parlor tricks: <"Not likely. He was perfectly capable of using a flashlight. He was full of magician's tricks. You should have seen the performances of his spiritualist friends in LA. We went to one where everyone held hands, lights out, and horns, pencils, etc floated in the air in the semi darkness. I was small crept under the table, behind the screen, and watched the person doing the performance, who did not see me. I was young enough to think this was a performance and thought nothing of it.> My Comment: What does this ridiculous testimony have to do with PY? You call this evidence? I call it reprehensible trash.
kolorado22 Registered User (1/25/04 12:43 pm) Reply	Re: Stepping Up to the Plate I think I caught on to Nag/Chela after I realized she was a veteren Church/Guru basher. First Jehovah's Witnesses, then Muktananda's Siddha Yoga, then SRF, then Yoganada himself. Kind of a progression of self inflicted abuse, don't you think? kolorado
A voice in the supermarket Registered User (1/25/04 12:46 pm) Reply	Re: Stepping Up to the Plate Hi kolorado, Should we really, really mar the identity of other contributors by crassness? Do the teachings of Yogananda say we should behave in so uncultivated ways? This said, well balanced searching for evidence can be OK! Now an example: "If a Bengali is a man, what is a devil?" says an Indian proverb. Scholarly evidence: Rosalind Fergusson, ed, The Penguin Dictionary of Proverbs, Penguin Books. Harmondsworth, 1983, p. 183 So if you trust the editor and publisher, the Indians do have that proverb. But suppose you wonder how true the proverb is, all in all? Or that Jews can be very bad, since the apostle Paul says so! The proverb, to speak of one thing, is neither true nor untrue. It is a rhetorical question that aims at marring the identity of Bengalis somewhat by roundabout measures. The apostle's statements on Jews - leave them aside! Try not to think of - "There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew . . . [Romans 2.9; see also 3.9-19 -] The apostle says this and that, the Buddha tells all to consider how true such statements may be. Tell me, shouldn't you refrain from very bad characterizations of persons you have not even MET? Don't we have more than a touch of "quaggy marring" in your ruthless posting? Can it be healthy to anyone? In soccer, football players are supposed to hit the the ball, not other football players. I know it's different in the Super-bowl, but . . . in discussions, fairness depends on such an approach too. Be seen to aim for the issue and not branding or scorching the personalities of other contributors, please. NOTE: Crass characterizations may not help us a lot in the hidden realms according to: "To take revenge is often to sacrifice oneself". It is an African proverb. (Op cit, p. 20 Bye, Voice Edited by: A voice in the supermarket at: 1/25/04 12:50 pm
A voice in the supermarket Registered User (1/25/04 12:59 pm) Reply	Re: Stepping Up to the Plate kolorado, You seem to have considered a thing or two, too. You write: "I think I caught on to Nag/Chela after I realized she was a veteren Church/Guru basher. First Jehovah's Witnesses, then Muktananda's Siddha Yoga, then SRF, then Yoganada himself. Kind of a progression of self inflicted abuse, don't you think?" YOGANANDA ASKS FOR HIGH THINKING Say, isn't there a progression of affiliation? A man said, "Where others speak of problems, I see challenges and opportunities." Not a few conflicts and problems can be turned into opportunities and profitable endavours in the life-long art of living. A voice Edited by: A voice in the supermarket at: 1/26/04 1:11 pm
nagchampa2 Registered User (1/25/04 3:21 pm) Reply	Re: Stepping Up to the Plate kolorado, You don't read my posts very well, but neither did Borg. So you ask the same questions over and over, and I am tired of repeating myself. Kolorado: “I can see leaving your guru… because you heard him lie..” Chela: "Swami Dhirananda came to this country to write Yogananda's works for him, including his lectures...he is claiming those writings as his own”. Kolorado: “Pardon me but these don’t seem to be guru-busting offences”. That dialogue struck me as interesting. Swami Dhirananda's name was on Yogananda's books as co-writer. Soulcircle has a book with both their names on it. In one post, you said you can see a devotee leaving if the guru lied; then you turn around and say it doesn't matter if he lies. Interesting. So, if a guru takes off another person's name on his books and claims the writings as his own, that is okay to you. If he lies in court, that too is okay. What kind of morals is Yogananda teaching you? Have you ever read Swami Giri Satyeswarananda's book on Kriya, and what he had to say about Yogananda? How he personally knew him , and that he used hypnosis, just as he did as a child, for example? Well, this is the first hand information that you want, but you would probably say, "It doesn't matter what he said. He was just jealous of Yogananda. He was a liar." So why would I bother to tell you who told me the information that I have? Some of which I can't repeat since it was confidential. You would just say that they were jealous or liars. But, it is okay if Yogananda lied in court, because he is your guru, and he can do whatever he wants in the name of God. You wrote: "If meditation or kriya causes mental illness by disturbing the mind, then it is performing it's intended function. Hopefully those that are too weak to handle a Harley Davidson fall off right away, not when they are going 100 MPH in the rain". You are telling me that your have 30 friends who have used Kriya for 30 years without harm, and so you want to know what basis I have for calling it harmful. Does this make sense? You are contradicting yourself, but so did Yogananda often enough. You learned well after being in SRF for 30 years. Then you say, "hopefully those that are too weak to handle a Harley fall off right away," Hopefully? Its function is to disturb the mind. Hmm. That would make me want to sign up. Next door to the Encinitas Temple is a nice Import store, and in that import store is a book called "Raja Yoga," and in that book it tells you that practicing pranayama is dangerous. You may want to go buy that book. It is approved by SRF or it would not be in that store. At least they do approve of a few good books. Sort of like the Catholic Church that gives you a list or has their own books stores where you can buy what they feel you should read. I am also amazed that you have 30 friends in SRF. Most people in SRF don't have friends. Also, when I was going to Encinitis Temple, and they asked for a raise of hands of who was practicing Kriya, only about 10 people raised their hands, if that many, out of a very large crowd on Sunday. I was surprised. Also, they were not friendly there, and whenever I went up to talk to another devotee or a newcomer, they were shocked and relieved that someone was even talking to them. Some said no one had spoken to them for as long as they had been going. One had been attending service for 18 years and knew no one. Some told me that you just don't do this here, that is, you don't go up and talk to others. This person added, you have talked more to me than anyone I have ever talked with in the entire time I have been coming here. The minister (Br. Ramananda) was always trying to change this. He kept giving lectures about being friendly, and after service he would ask us to shake the hand of the person next to us, but that didn't work. He told us we could make friends by doing volunteer work, but no one was allowed to talk to one another then, except when they were doing special events. He finally began pairing people together as friends so that they would not feel so alone there. He was wonderful in his efforts. And here you say you seldom even attend service, but you have 30 friends who have done Kriya for 30 years, and this in Encinitis where I went. Maybe those 30 people were too shy to raise their hands when asked. And maybe you are so friendly that everyone loved you, and so you had 30 friends. Can you give me the names of your 30 friends who have practiced Kriya for 30 years, so I can personally talk with them to see if they are normal or if they have psychological problems? I would like you to back up that statement. By the way, I was never in Siddhi Yoga. The Jehovah's Witnesses were kind to everyone there until they did one thing wrong, which many eventually do unless they are good at hiding it. I was very happy there, but I would not be now. In regards to Yogananda's magic tricks you wrote: "What does this ridiculous testimony have to do with PY? You call this evidence? I call it reprehensible trash". Yes, if you find that sentence from someone who knew him ridiculous and trash, then you must realize that magic tricks are trash. I think he could have gained a wonderful following by playing fair and being honest. I am waiting for the mail to bring the court files to me. I will send it to a few whose addresses I have and ask them to pass it around to each other. I will also post it on this board, if not here, then on Yellowbeard's board. Edited by: nagchampa2 at: 2/2/04 8:23 am
nagchampa2 Registered User (1/25/04 4:54 pm) Reply	Re: Stepping Up to the Plate Voice, When kolorado is abusive, he is only showing us what he thinks Yogananda taught him. Edited by: nagchampa2 at: 1/25/04 7:42 pm
Borg108 Registered User (1/26/04 4:26 am) Reply	Re: ...and the beat goes on I was hoping to have nothing more to do with Walrus by now, but given the aggressive accusations of YB and nag/chela/voice, I feel obligated to add a few more words. Nag and YB have both accused me of trying to have them silenced. In fact, just the opposite is true. Kolorado and I have asked for documentary evidence, not silence, to support their accusations. Nag keeps repeating the serious accusation that Yogananda slept with women disciples, and YB has said that Yogananda “shagged any female disciple he could get his hands on.” So, once again, where is the evidence? Where are the women to support these claims? If you can’t substantiate such things, then why go on making these inflammatory accusations? (If you can’t prove such serious accusations, this is called slander and libel. Given SRF’s propensity for lawsuits, I wouldn’t like to be in your shoes for making these kinds of repetitive, unsubstantiated remarks.) It seems that what initially set off nag/chela/voice is her infuriation that Yogananda allegedly tried to use a siddhi on someone whom who she cares about. So what was the siddhi? What were the circumstances involved? If it truly was a siddhi, then why didn’t it work? If it didn’t work, then how could it have been a siddhi? Are others just supposed to take your word for all this? That’s hard to do when you haven’t been very credible so far. For example, I asked you to document your statement that Yogananda said that God told him to build the first Encinitas temple where he did. You’ve talked all around the issue, but still haven’t documented where or when he made such a statement. I also asked you to document your accusation that Sri Yukteswar told Yogananda on several occasions to stop displaying his siddhis. So far, there is only silence from you. If you want to speak out, then do so with evidence and documentation, instead of accusations and opinions presented as fact. I also requested that you support your many statements that Yogananda teaches us use siddhis. You responded by saying that in the lessons he teaches us to read minds. Well, as best as I can recall, that’s not in my set of lessons. I have a full set here. If you tell me which ones to look in, I’ll be glad to look it up. If you can’t substantiate it, then you shouldn’t claim it to be true. As for Yogananda losing his swami title, we again have only unsubstantiated accusations from you and a statement that you can’t reveal your sources. I’ve spent considerable time in India and am acquainted with many swamis. I know, for a fact, that swami vows are for life and cannot just be taken away from someone. Many there are called swamis even without taking sannyas vows, much less knowing some mantra. I’ve even had swamis e great me with the sadhu mantra “Om Namo Narayanaya”, which is only supposed to be used when greeting another swami. But Hindus are not generally fundamentalists and don’t see things as rigidly you apparently do. . When asked to back up your accusation that Yogananda made predictions that didn’t come true, you said Yogananda foretold that, by 2000, the USA and India would lead the world. Please give us your source so we can see in what context he made this statement. In the sense that the US leads the world in materiality, and India leads the world in spirituality, that statement is indeed true. It would be nice to see how Yogananda was using this statement, and if he ever actually did make it. Finally, you revealed your big “first hand information” in response to kolorado’s questions by saying that Swami Satyeswarananda personally knew Yogananda and said that he used hypnosis. I’ve been in contact with Swamiji since the mid-1980s and have read all his books. Nowhere do I recall him saying or writing that Yogananda used hypnosis. I could be mistaken about this part (but I doubt it), so if you have documentation, then please reveal it. I do know, however, that he never knew Yogananda. Swamiji began his training with Swami Satyananda in 1950 as a teenager. He was no more than 4 years old when Yogananda visited India in 1935. Satyeswaranada never came to this country until 1982, thirty years after Yogananda’s passing. Satyananda, by the way, was a boyhood and lifelong friend of Yogananda who followed Yogananda’s wishes his entire life. There is something, however, on page 180 of Satyeswarananda’s book on Sri Yukteswar that does address your plagarism accusations stemming from Dhirananda’s help with the Science of Religion book. I quote from Satyananda and Satyeswarananda, “With the help of Dhirananda, the Science of Religion was completed. Tulasinarayan Bose and I [Satyananda] were able to contribute some service in the publication.” Yogananda Sanga by Swami Satyananada, p 156. “Swami Yogananda acknowledged this in his note in the second edition (published by Sat-Sanga, 30 Huntington Ave., Boston in 1924) ‘My thanks are due to Swami Dhirananda, M.A., Swami Satyananda, B.A. and SJ Tulsinarayan Bose for various forms of help I have received from them.’ Boston, U.S.A., October, 1924 The Author” Doesn’t sound like plagarism to me. As for your and YB’s accusations that kolorado and I are trying to get you off the board, please know that isn’t true. Walrus can verify that I haven’t sent him any requests or comments regarding either of you. There are other boards out there given over to Yogananda bashing, including one run by YB himself. I personally feel this would be a better venue for both of you. The unique mission of Walrus was to address SRF issues, not flame Yogananda and his teachings. If the moderator wants now to have this be just another Yogananda bashing board, then so be it.. That’s not my call. I can just vote with my feet, as can others. I see no reason to stay around anymore to listen to rumors, innuendo, unsubstantiated accusations and outright falsehoods regarding Yogananda and his teachings. I can only wonder why anyone would want to immerse themselves in such darkness and negativity. Edited by: Borg108 at: 1/26/04 5:34 am
username Registered User (1/26/04 5:03 am) Reply	to: borg Sounds like they hit one of your buttons. Perhaps you need to examine your own beliefs about Y and your relationship with the "dead guru" Are you hallucinating and attributing it to Y ?
YellowBeard420 Slow Down (1/26/04 5:15 am) Reply	Yogananda's Pulse Trick Breaking Development -- Full Details on Yogananda's Pulse Trick which is Identical to Fairly Common Indian Guru Scam I now have the full details on this trick. I've read from several different sources about this pulse trick that Yogananda would do that he used to show how he had superhuman control over his body. It seemed so cheesy, it just seemed like such a strange way to show his "yogic powers". It just didn't feel right, and I'm sure many readers would have to agree. First I'm going to present a fully documented source on this trick to show that he actually did this in front of audiences. Many of us have already heard about him doing this, but we need to be scientific about this. Then I'm going to follow with the details on how this trick is done which has been revealed by a group of Guru Busters from India who scientifically examine and confront the activities of gurus (aka self-proclaimed men and women of God). -------------- Extract from "Hell-Bent for Heaven: The Autobiography of Hilda Charlton". Publisher: Golden Quest; (December 1990) He [Yogananda] interrupted his talk to ask if there were a doctor in the audience. A man stood up and Swamiji asked him to come on the stage. He requested the doctor, “Take my pulse and tell me what you feel.” The doctor felt his wrist, looking perplexed at first and then amazed. “There is no pulse,” he answered. Swamiji then told him to take the pulse on the other wrist. The doctor’s facial expression turned from amazement to incredulity. He said, “Swami Yogananda, this is impossible. Your pulse is pounding at an incredible speed.” He quickly tried the other side again and said, “This side is normal.” He came down from the stage into the audience shaking his head and mumbling, “Impossible, impossible.” pub78.ezboard.com/fsrfwal...ID=5.topic -------------- This trick is actually the first on the list from "An Indian Skeptic's Explanation of Miracles" by B. Premanand. This trick may have been clever back when Yogananda was on his lecture tours, but it's out in the open now; just like some of the old magic tricks that have been protected for generations finally get revealed in time. Here's the excerpt on this from the article: a) Short-Time Death, Stopping Heartbeat: One can stop the heartbeat for short periods by breathing air inside fully and trying to exhale the air without exhaling. What is generally done by god-men is only to stop the pulse at the wrist. This is done by stopping the flow of blood to the hands by keeping a lemon, or a small ball or a rolled handkerchief in the armpits and pressing down on the object when they wish to temporarily cutoff the blood flow. Doctors do not, in the confusion, check the heartbeat, but check the pulse and confirm that the pulse is stopped. The god-men show this trick to make people believe that by practising yoga and pranayama, a person can stop the breath and heartbeats and still be alive. This is to prove to the people that they are above normal human beings. groups.yahoo.com/group/mu...ssage/5561 And here's another article that speaks on the same trick: www.indian-skeptic.org/html/byhedwa1.htm ------------- As we can see, this describes exactly what Yogananda did on stage. The force Yogananda used to press against the object in his armpit caused his heart-rate to accelerate, which the doctor detected in the other arm. When Yogananda released this pressure, his heart-rate returned to normal, which the doctor then reported on on the arm where there was no pulse. I may be able to present some eye-witness account information on some of Yogananda's tricks if I can get permission to do so. It's some pretty exciting stuff, we'll see what happens. ------------- From the author on the above article: "At first I believed all that I read about gods and gurus. I wanted to possess all the siddhis available. At the age of 19, I set out to find myself a guru. I went to Aurobindo and Tagore was father's friend. Like Swami, who in his book 'In Search of God' writes about his tour around India without money and claimed that God took care of him, I set out on a trip around India penniless. But I didn't see any god helping me, only human beings. I met a lot of swamis who told me they'll teach me all this kundalini stuff. ... I found all the yogis and rishis to be tricksters. Then I grew interested in the tricks. I can make a lot of money as a godmen if I want. I know about 1500 miracles as opposed to 50/60 that an average godmen knows. Dr. Kovoor used to come from Sri Lanka and hold miracle exposure campaigns from 1969 onwards. I wrote a book called 'Lure of Miracles' on Satya Sai Baba. Publishers refused to touch it, so I published it myself and Kovoor released it for me. I was with him in that tour as he was ill and there were also a lot of people who wanted to kill him. I became a member of the Rationalists Association. We used to go to village interiors where first I used to burn my body to attract attention. Then we used to give our lectures." www.indian-skeptic.org/html/svm2.htm ------------------ > Borg108 wrote: "I can only wonder why anyone would want to immerse themselves in such darkness and negativity." I agree with this statement. By shining the light of reason on the "darkness" surrounding Yogananda, we shall free ourselves from the "negativity" of our codependent, submissive attachment to a con-artist who set up a religion for the reasons most people do -- to get rich and to be surrounded by lots of adoring women. For former SRFers, we're living in exciting times. The truth is finally starting to roll out on Yogananda. Fear not Borg Yogananda assimilation drone 1 of 8, this "darkness and negativity" of Yogananda's corrupt shadow shall be lifted. You would have liked the dark ages of the 1930's where audiences were spell bound by cheap tricks involving nothing more than a lemon in someone's armpit. But these are modern times and the truth is coming out.
etzchaim Registered User (1/26/04 5:49 am) Reply	hunh I think we're all nuts. I'm going to look for sanity. Somewhere... If I find it, I'll come back and let y'all know what I did to find it. (However many 'y'all' happens to be). I don't trust the space anymore. It's in here somewhere, a still small voice told me. It's not in the fire and it's not in the wind, but it's somewhere. Sanity.
chela2020 Slow Down (1/26/04 6:20 am) Reply	Re: ...and the beat goes on Borg: Your wanting Soulcircle, Yellowbeard, and I banned was implied by your post under Purpose of this Board. Before I forget, the book by Swami Giri Satyeswarananda is called, "Kriya, the True Path." I don't own it anymore, but he didn't seem to care for Yogananda in the least. He must have been referring to his guru as knowing Yogananda, and he must have been quoting from him. (It was over 5 years ago when I read the book.) I know when I read the book I was very upset and called Mother Center. Mukti Mata, knowing who Sat was, told me to take the book and "drive a stake through it." I threw it in the garbage. (I used to listen to MC.) He did say that he continued to use hypnosis. I remember that clearly I am not going to buy the book just to quote from it, but it is out there for others to read, but if you want to send me your copy, I will look for it and other things that were said that was negative about Yogananda. I was never strong on the sexual allegations on this board, but a woman came forward to Nerode's family, but people don't believe Nerode because SRF has taught us that he just has an axe to grind, as does Swami Dhirananda. This woman and her mother have passed on. I find it interesting that people here call SRF liars, say they keep secrets, etc. but then they believe SRF about these two partners of Yogananda's. It is as if SRF only keeps their own dirty little secrets and are purists when it comes to their Master. The siddhi didn't work because the person was a guru who was able to stop him. People would have to just take my word on this one, that is, if it means anything to them. I am tried of repeating myself here: You know of some siddhis he used that were not used out of compassion to heal others, and I quoted scriptures on this thread. You can read what the siddhis are and in bold black I identified the ones I knew Yogananda to use from his writings. This is all I have to say on this. I don't have the lessons anymore. In the lesson he told us to sit with another devotee, hold their hand, and try to read their thoughts. We were to take turns doing this. That is all I remember from it. I didn't even do this lesson because I already knew how to read minds. I don't read minds anymore, because I know better, and so when I saw this lesson I was really surprised. Again, it was in the papers about Encinitas Temple. I don't have the article. Maybe you can do a search in the L.A. Times or Encinitas papers and see if you can find the article. This is not an important issue to me. You are making it an issue. But anyone in Encinitas and Del Mar knows that homes do not last long when built on a cliff overlooking the ocean. People in Santa Monica know this too. You don't have to be an engineer to know these things. You don't even have to be smart. Ask El Nino. He will tell you how much damage he can do to a house when he spends his winter here. If Yogananda was good a predicting, why didn't he know this himself? I just take no stock in what any guru or psychic would say about the future, because the future can change due to any one circumstance. It is only true if certain events continue as they are going. Thanks for telling me the sadhu mantra. I thought that it was supposed to have been a secret. Amazing that a guru would tell it to you. Mantras are normally kept a secret, even in India, except that some are given to large groups like Siddhi Yoga and SRF, but most gurus don't think much of mass initiation, and most teach that the guru himself has to initiate you personally and should then become your personal guide. India is full of charlatans. Seems like his own guru just never taught him this mantra or didn't know it himself. Since posting this, I was told by a friend that even Yogananda's guru was accused of not being a swami in India, but then his own guru substantiated it. So in regards to this, perhaps it boils down to what a devotee feels about choosing such a guru. What Yogananda's ex-partners feel is, "They would not have come with him to America if he were not a swami. But he was not a Paramahansa. He took up that title after Sri Yukteswar passed on, and he claimed the title was given to him written on a post card." Since we want evidence, lets ask MC if we can have a Xerox copy of that post card, with his guru's handwriting on it. Can you prove to me that he was a Paramahansa? Why have you not posted the predictions from that book you say you have? I know that I won't be able to get Ananda to copy it for me since they said he made many predictions that didn't come true and so won't publish it again. Call Ananda everyone. Give me the title of that book, and I will do a search for it on the net. I will see if I can find myself a copy, that is, if it isn't over $10. That is all that book is worth to me. I don't consider myself a fundalmentalist on most issues. I just expect much more from a guru. You, on the other hand, are a fundamentalist when it comes to reading books. You feel that MC is correct in saying that we should all only read SRF books, but of course, you have read Sat's. So this is okay for you, but I should have listened to Daya Mata. I thank God that I didn't. That book you mentioned was not the only book that S.D. wrote. We will see what the court records show. "The unique mission of Walrus was to address SRF issues, not flame Yogananda and his teachings". Yogananda is SRF issues. As Br. Anandamoy said, and he was a direct disciple: "SRF and Yogananda are one and the same. If you are disloyal to SRF, you are disloyal to the guru." Plus, it is his teachings that are coming into question here, and SRF publishes them. They have not changed all that much through SRF's editing.
chela2020 Slow Down (1/26/04 6:46 am) Reply	Taking Kolorado's Advice Kolorado wrote: "Do yourself a favor, get some help from your friends, buy some CDs, take a vacation, change jobs, find a lover, go back to school." I decided you are right, so I will take your advice, but I will need your help with this, so please bear with me if you will. Get some help from your friends: My friends all meditate and are very peaceful. They also don't think that I need help. But maybe, even though they have been my friends for years, and even though one of them is a psychologist, perhaps they don't know me well. Maybe I am a closet mental case. So, what I am suggesting is, Will you be my friend? Perhaps by the use of your verbal abuse, I will be able to get the help I need, and my mind can heal. Buy some CDs: I think this one is intended for me to sit and listen to chant music all day, which would turn me into a bliss bunny, but if not, maybe it is intended to keep me busy and off the net. But maybe you are right. So can you send me say $400 for CDs and give me a list of the ones you think would help me the most? Take a vacation: I am all for that. I love to travel. Can you sent me say $10,000 so I can go to India. I would want to take someone special with me, and we would stay as long as the money doesn't run out. From time to time I will ask you for more money, just like any child that does when at camp. I will say, "Dear Kolorado. We are having a great time. Your idea is working for me. Please send me more money." I don't feel uncomfortable about accepting this money, just like Yogananda who also didn't feel uncomfortable about asking Lynn for money, but of course, I am not a renunciant. I did not take vows of poverty. Change jobs: Well, I love my job, so I don't understand this one, but if you feel it would help, I will do as you say, after all, you know best. So, if you could get me a job in Berkeley, I would be glad to move there and only there. Also, if you would pay moving expensives, I would do gladly move.. Find a lover: Well, I have a wonderful husband, so he may object to that one, but he also wants what is best for me, so if you think this is best, please explain it more fully, and I will talk to him about it, and if we both feel it is logical--that it would really help me, then, and only if you are a man, would you be my lover? Go back to school: Well, I spent 14 years taking all types of courses while living in Berkeley. But I am sure there are some I missed, like political science, debate, etc. If you would kindly send me the money to go back to college, I will accept that offer, after all, if you think it would help me. And it has to be at U.C. Berkeley because I love their campus, the town, and the professors are the best in the country. I am more than willing to do all these things, and I would promise you that I would then stay off Walrus, but can you afford me?
nagchampa2 Registered User (1/26/04 6:54 am) Reply	Re: Yogananda's Pulse Trick Yellowbeard, Thank you so much for showing some of the proof that Borg and Kolorado keep asking me for. I hope you get the permission to post the rest. You are a genius. Predictions discussed on Walrus: pub78.ezboard.com/fsrfwal...D=28.topic www.godisforeveryone.com/ (a book written by S.K. that talks about who wrote Yogananda's works) I found this on another web site and recall that this is what I read in Satyeswarananda's book: “he mentions usage of joinic powers and miracles a bit too often when it has been stressed time and again that the true Yogi sees these things as obstacles to realization - he seems to have been jealous of the success of Swami Vivekananda and tried in many ways to gain power over others in devious ways. . . . he knew hypnosis techniques and used them his whole life on others to gain power and control”. Now if Sat said them himself or is just quoting someone else I don't know. The quote says he "tried in many ways to gain power over others in devious ways," this is what that other guru experienced and stopped him from doing. It also goes along with what someone who knew him just wrote to me: Yogananda annoyed a lot of people with the little "tricks" (siddhis) he played on people. This was mostly power trips. They were counterproductive, people hated it". Edited by: nagchampa2 at: 1/26/04 8:12 am
ranger20 Registered User (1/26/04 9:11 am) Reply	Re: Stepping Up to the Plate Just getting caught up, since I tend to take time off from the web on weekends, but I noticed the following: "Soulcircle has a copy of one of the books that has Dhirananda's name along side of Yogananda's." I saw the same thing within the last two months on eBay - a 1925 copy of Science of Religion, with the two names clearly visible in the photograph. I did not bid on it. Frankly, I've always found it rather boring, whoever wrote it. Edited by: ranger20 at: 1/26/04 9:32 am
etzchaim Registered User (1/26/04 9:31 am) Reply	Re: Stepping Up to the Plate "Mantras are normally kept a secret, even in India, except that some are given to large groups like Siddhi Yoga and SRF, but most gurus don't think much of mass initiation, and most teach that the guru himself has to initiate you personally and should then become your personal guide." At one point, before I gave them all away, I had a huge number of books published in India from the early part of the 20th century. They were filled with mantras, yantras and what have you. Mantras are not kept secret. Certain techniques are kept secret, but that is only because they can be used excessively or wrongly and people often need to have guidance. Often the idea of something "being secret" is abused, as well. TM comes to mind. They were giving out basic deity names, if I'm not mistaken (I don't believe everything I see in a book or on the net, no matter who wrote it...) and then telling people these were 'secret mantras'. Mantras take a good deal of practice and time to actually work, so they are not a very 'dangerous' method. Anything can be abused... I feel like this is a circle forum (not to be confused with a Soulcircle forum). It just seems to be going around and around and around... I stay away from excessive Gevurah and excessive Chesed. Those are secret Hebrew words. It makes me sleepy .
nagchampa2 Registered User (1/26/04 10:22 am) Reply	Re: Stepping Up to the Plate Eztchaim, I know that there are mantra books published, but when I took TM I was asked to keep my mantra a secret, as with this new group. I have friends who have mantras from other groups, who have been asked to keep theirs a secret. But those are personal mantras given to you by your guru. So, if the sadhu manta is not a secret in India, why didn't Yogananda know it? I almost wrote exactly what you said to Borg and Kolorado, which was going to be just : "circles, circles, circles". SRF was good at teaching us to talk in circles since that is how they answered our questions to them. I will refrain from answering any more of Borg's or Kolorado's posts when they are redundant. It was actually wearing me out, which is what they may have intended. And it was obvious that they only skimmed through my posts.
etzchaim Registered User (1/26/04 11:36 am) Reply	Re: Stepping Up to the Plate I learned Om Namo Narayana as just a mantra and had no idea it was a special mantra. It's a rather simple one, I must say. I have no idea what went on in the court room, but there is a possibility that Yogananda simply didn't know what it was called. Then again, he might not have known it. It really doesn't matter to me! The Sanskrit mantras I use are all Shaivite and people educated in the Vaishnava traditions might not know them. There may actually be different groups that know different things. I don't know exactly when the court case was, and don't really care, but for a good long time, Vedanta and SRF were the only Yoga groups in the US. Yogananda wasn't a Vedantist, though he had some affiliations with them, but his training was in Kriya Yoga. I also don't give the US courts, particularly back then, much trust to decide who was a 'Swami' and who wasn't. I'm not big on the whole title thing, don't believe in the Avatar trip and think we all just need to mellow, be kind to each other, help each other where we can and stop fighting! I've decided I'm a "Post-Hippy" . The 'circle' affect is the constant arguing and both sides seem to be doing it. It's just going around and around and not getting anywhere. I'm finding I agree with a little bit on both sides, and disagree on both sides and that I'd rather talk about Kriya, meditation and other fun stuff It's wearing me out to tear things apart... Edited by: etzchaim at: 1/26/04 11:52 am
nagchampa2 Registered User (1/26/04 1:46 pm) Reply	Re: ...and the beat goes on Borg wrote: "Yogananda foretold that, by 2000, the USA and India would lead the world. Please give us your source so we can see in what context he made this statement". I am told it came from a 1980s or late 1970s. SRF Magazine. You know, the ones that say, Winter, Summer, Spring, and Fall, Just give me a call, and I'll be there... Tra, la, la, la, la, la, la. Or was this the song: Spring, summer, winter and fall are in everything I know in love we had them all now our love is gone Edited by: nagchampa2 at: 1/26/04 1:52 pm
Punk Yogi Registered User (1/26/04 1:47 pm) Reply	Under the Rug .. Forever Out of View I'm disciplining myself to be as neutral as possible about the verdict on Yogananda. I think all sides are presenting some valid points. For example, I support Borg in his demand for rock hard evidence. I also encourage Yellowbeard, to continue shaking things up and challenging everybody to think critically about their attachments to spiritual authority. As I mentioned before, Yellowbeard is the person best suited temperamentally for making us examine any issues we may have about autonomy. (BTW: I didn't write the Guru Buster's article, only posted it. Glad you're able to use it). In this ad hoc Walrus trial of Yogananda, we need to first come to an agreement on what is acceptable evidence. Speculation and conjecture and hypothesizing are merely the first steps in creating an argument. But then there must be proof. Nevertheless, I don't agree with Borg that people should drop the argument merely because they don't have the evidence. There are various stages of an argument, and we should always be cognizant of where we are. What finally severed my emotional ties to SRF was the realization that SRF would never give public access to the archives of Yogananda. SRF's refusal to share with its members a complete picture of the man called Yogananda, let me to suspect that they were curbing his image and hiding things they didn't want us to see. Once I brought my mother to an Open House at the Mother Center. After we descended the stairs from Yogananda's bedroom, she quipped, "I saw a nun sweeping some dust under a rug." This was not the answer I expected from her after asking her if she felt anything in the Master's bedroom! Years later, as I think about it with all the clarity of my deprogrammed mind, I can see that SRF has indeed been a specialist at sweeping things under the rug. This perception of SRF has been fostered by numerous discussions I've had over the years with ex and current monastics as well as those who have worked as employees of SRF. Take, for example, the committee formed by monastics which brought in a therapist. When SRF asked the therapist for a prognosis, the therapist told them that the organization had some problems. The therapist was duly fired. So, it basically got down to this: I don't know if Yogananda is a saint or a con man. I don't know for sure what motivates SRF to do what it does. But what I do know is that SRF has consistently refused to be part of a constructive dialog with its members. From a vast repertoire of communication approaches, SRF has chosen the Soviet Style, which is "My Way or the Highway." My relationship with SRF ended at that moment, for I saw that there was no place for me in it. From that point on, it really hasn't mattered all that much whether Yogananda is a con man or a saint because, if SRF has its way, we'll never know.
nagchampa2 Registered User (1/26/04 2:16 pm) Reply	Re: Under the Rug .. Forever Out of View Punk Yoga, That was a very powerful posting you just made. My brain is fried today, not enough sleep. Coyotes woke me up at 4 a.m. So I am only in the mood for joking, and so if I made a joke out of your statement please dont take it serious: "we need to first come to an agreement on what is acceptable evidence." My suggestion is, we should follow the guidlines as written in the Bible: John 8:17: "The witness of two men is true." Whether it is out of context or not, it doesn't matter. Okay, I will try for serious: In reality, even if Yogananda is a false guru, if the devotee is sincere, that is more important. It really depends upon what a person wants. Even Sri Ramakrishna said if your guru goes to a bar, he is still your guru. But that doesn't mean that you have to stay with a guru whom you even have doubts about. Some people can love a guru no matter what they have heard about him or even know to be true about him, and they stay with that guru. I couldn't, and it sounded to me as if there were others on this board who couldn't either. For them, I mainly want to say, even if you have doubts, you can safely leave and not be punished for lifetimes. If they doubt that statement, they can ask various gurus from the different organizations. Others, like myself, just needed my doubts removed, one way or another, and they have been, but of course, I left him due to my doubts.

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