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RolandP
Registered User
(2/6/03 4:30 am)
Reply 		PY's India: Dispel The Myth
I’ve read a few accounts of people being disappointed after going to India and not finding PY’s magical India. I believe this warrants a new thread. I am more than interested to hear of anyone else’s impression of India. Following is a quick glimpse into what I perceive of India.

Just like the whole world India is also in the throes of the age of Kali. Don’t expect to be greeted by sages and seers!

I went to India expecting to find the world of PY's childhood and was very disillusioned. First I saw the filthy cities. Next the drug crazed western party crowd. Next I realised that many Indians are no more aware of the magical world than anyone else. I considered going home, but having taken years to get there resolved to stay.

Thankfully I stayed – my disillusion proved to be a rite of passage. A few months into my adventure my path led me to an extraordinarily power yogi. I spent 5 years as his student. He is not my Guru but set me on my path. Only with him did I glimpse into the world of true yogi's and rishi's. For the most part it is hidden. Not hidden by design but veiled by our own ignorance and self-absorption. I now understand you cannot know someone is a yogi unless either a) you are one or b) the yogi reveals their self. Another reason for not seeing ‘magical beings’ is one will not always feel love in the presence of a Yogi. They can be frightening. Not because they project fear but because their very presence challenges our notion of our self. Overcoming the self is the most fearsome challenge of all. Fear is one factor that can prevent us from seeing the India that PY saw.

The news is that there are very few true yogi's and for the most part they do not advertise themselves - you could be in the presence of a God realised master and not know it. Many of them spend their time with God alone. Not all of them are Messiahs or public figures. For the most part they will work quietly as God commands without seeking praise or acknowledgement. Not seeing that world does not mean it does not exist.

This world is also hidden from the majority of Indians. You only got to look at the rise of the far right. These Hindu nationals led by Vajpayee the India Mussolini have stirred up obscene amounts of hatred, brutality and murder. India is in danger of losing what I believe to be its greatest asset - tolerance! Another shocking fact is that many Indians are not impressed by Ghandi – need we be reminded it was an extreme Hindu that murdered him.

There are many people with great power and knowledge - power and knowledge makes a yogi not. This power is often abused. In India, one may notice for the most part the local people will avoid contact with Sadhus. This is because many of them use power for self gain. Shiva will give power to devotees who have displayed unbending asceticism whatever their motives. Many western seekers assume that because someone adorns the robes of a Sadhu they must be holy - a gross mistake.

Everything is exaggerated in India. What never ceases to amaze me is the juxtaposition of the opposites. Equal to the darkness veiling India there is an equal measure light. I experienced incredible acts of kindness and consideration sometimes a moment before or after a disheartening act. I met many wonderful souls. India is a magical country. If anyone out there is interested, I will be pleased to relate some stories which should illustrate the nature of my experiences of India.

Getting back to the point, as far as I perceive, direct connection with God is what makes a Yogi. Just because the India of PY is not overtly obvious does not mean that it does not exist. It is there for those who have eyes to see.

It seems to me even those who found the magic of India began their journey with disillusion. So it you go don’t loose heart because you do not walk straight into a world of saints and sages.

Should you be thinking of going to India my advice is to clear your mind of mental preconceptions and to follow your heart. You will get whatever your karma decrees.

chela2020
Registered User
(2/6/03 5:07 am)
Reply 		Re: PY's India: Dispel The Myth
Roland,

That was a wonderful story. I would love to hear the rest of your stories on this subject.

Lobo
Registered User
(2/6/03 7:34 am)
Reply 		Re: PY's India: Dispel The Myth
Roland,

Great advice, and as noted by Chela 2020, great stories. I think some people who go to India go especially to visit the shrines and ashrams associated with Paramahansa Yogananda only and never mix or seek out other yogis or saints.

Personally I've never made the trek (yet) to India, although I admit I've been susceptible to the myth of India. But today I can understand that India, while a mysterious, exceedingly ancient culture, also has its problems.

Another thought regarding PY's India. He too was an advanced yogi, from birth. The great saints that he visited and wrote of in his AY he either heard about from other yogis or friends, or he was lead to them through his investigations, always trying to locate God-attuned souls. So maybe it truly is "being one to know one" as you say.

RolandP
Registered User
(2/6/03 8:28 am)
Reply 		Re: PY's India: Dispel The Myth
Lobo

Ageed. PY had a great soul magnetism which led him to the many saints he met. Another difficulty for a visitor to India is the language and cultural barriers. Not all saints speak English and not all of them live in places accessible to tourists!

Chela2020

When inspired I will post a few choice stories. Whether they are magical or whether they are ordinary occurances which capture what I consider to be the essence of India, I don't know yet.

Borg108
Registered User
(2/6/03 10:18 am)
Reply 		Re: PY's India: Dispel The Myth
Having spent a considerable amount of time in India myself, I concur with everything RolandP says. India is still honeycombed with saints. They are all over the place but not easily accessible to non-Indians. Most SRF/YSS people are content to just visit the YSS sites, and YSS does little to encourage otherwise. For example, very close to the Dakshineswar YSS ashram is Belur Math, headquarters of the Ramakrishna Mission and Math where Swami Vivekananda and other direct disciples of Sri Ramakrishna lived, and where the bodies of Vivekanandaji and Sri Ramakrishna are buried. The spiritual vibrations of that place are very powerful, but no one in YSS will mention the place to you. No one will even tell you about the Sarada Devi (wife of Sri Ramakrishna) Math where that great saint's body and vibrations lie, and it is right next door to the YSS ashram!

I'd like to tell one story of a meeting I had with a saint in south India because it ties in with some of the postings on this board. I was with someone who was getting a vedic astrology reading from an old astrologer, when out of the blue he turns to me and says, "You do meditation, don't you?" I said yes, he made a few more comments, then mentioned his Guru who lived nearby. Several of his brother disciples overheard this and offered to take me with them the next day when they would be visiting their Guru. I readily accepted. After an hour's drive, the two Indian devotees, a young Englishman passing through the area, and myself arrive at a rather humble dwelling on the outskirts of the city. The young man we see there is busily engaged in instructing a group of boys. He was so unassuming that I had no idea at first that he was the Guru. But as he starts talking to the young Englishman, it becomes obvious that he knows everything about the Englishman. The saint's kindness, concern and loving nature becomes clear as day. When he gets around to me, the first thing he asks is who my Guru is. I found this to be common throughout India. True saints are very respectful of one another and would never dream of intruding upon an existing Guru disciple relationship (so much for SRF/YSS protectionism). He then wants to know about my meditation practices. It surprises me to find out that he and his followers also do a form of kriya, but with some minor differences from what we do. As he's telling me about the differences and why the way they do kriya is a bit better, I sense that his followers are expecting him to try to bring me into their fold, or at least to change the way I do my meditation.

But the saint suddenly stops talking about their practices and says to me, "Just keep doing what your Guru taught you." I understood this to mean that the techniques are secondary. Devotion, attunement and the blessings of God and Guru are much more important. In fact, one of the things I love most about India is how seekers there will throw themselves at the feet of the Divine, whereas in the West we think we have to take control and be such masters of our own destiny. IMHO SRF, being an organization of Western minded folk, buys into the later more than the former.

Edited by: Borg108 at: 2/6/03 12:28:51 pm
chela2020
Registered User
(2/6/03 10:40 am)
Reply 		Re: PY's India: Dispel The Myth
Borg,

I enjoyed this posting of yours as well as others that you have placed on this board. This will really be an interesting thread. Sorry I don't have much to contribute to it since I have never been in India.

I am in Vedanta now, and so I found it interesting that Dakshinswar is close to YSS. Someday I hope to visit India, but for now I will read your's and Roland's postings.

I also found it interesting, after coming to Vedanta, how you can get close to the shine and bow down before it. I find that that brings me closer to the gurus and to God. So I enjoyed reading your story of how the seekers throw themselves at the feet of the Divine.

RolandP
Registered User
(2/7/03 1:36 am)
Reply 		Bhakti
Borg

The very first thing I was taught about yoga is Bhakti. Without devotion the path is not yoga. Several years later I find this truth self-evident, after all everything comes from God.

Your comments about how Indians willfully throw themselves at the feet of the divine is a very important point. I think in the west we can be a bit obsessed with the 'Guru'. Of course a guru is very important but I believe possibly the most important role of a guru is to provide inspiration to a seeker. A guru can open a door but only we can walk through it.

In my case, one of the things I have been taught is mantra meditation. There is nothing about the techniques I use which I could not have read from a book. But when a person whose presence and whose knowledge is awesome tells me his path started in the same way, then I know beyond doubt that the method is more than just beneficial. Therefore I practice with faith and devotion.

In summary I would say that the most important thing is to seek the divine. When the time is right God will send a guru. Christ's first commandment was about loving God with all thy heart, mind soul... Whether the guru is in or out of this world and who the guru is, is less important.

The problem with seeking a guru raises the question of whether we are seeking the divine or seeking a surrogate parent?

Edited by: RolandP at: 2/7/03 2:21:48 am
username
Registered User
(2/7/03 9:24 am)
Reply 		Re: Bhakti
Bhakti is but one type of yoga

Lobo
Registered User
(2/7/03 6:48 pm)
Reply 		Re: Bhakti
Regarding learning a mantra from a book, and there are books which have pretty much all the most popular mantras at the very least, and having a very-far along the path, wiser, more aware, experienced seeker/yogi give one the same mantra raises an important question that I've been giving alot of thought too lately.

Receiving kriya yoga from SRF, particuarly through the ceremony from a monastic as opposed to through the lessons alone is a beautiful and impressive thing. However is the technique (very important in our lineage) empowered by that same specialness discussed above?

Does one have to have some physical contact with the guru/teacher/yogi initially to have the true power that's needed to progress through all the inner unconscious obstacles that will most surely arise upon the path? Or can one receive that contact from the gurus disciple's, monastics, as a stand-in?

This is an important point. And I don't necessarily believe the dogma from SRF that the president is the empowering force on earth anymore, as one doesn't have any contact with the president!

Any help from others, Roland or Borg would be most appreciated.

Thanks

Borg108
Registered User
(2/8/03 1:40 am)
Reply 		Re: Bhakti
Lobo,

Traditionally, initiation in India is given through personal mantra diksha. It is said in the scriptures, however, that initiation can sometimes be given through a touch, a look, or even a dream. This is what is meant when it is said that the company of a divine personage, even if for a moment, can save and redeem us. Ramana Maharishi, who didn't want to draw much attention to himself as a Guru, used all of the above methods. You make recall the story in the AY where Lahiri Mahasaya gave initiation in a dream. Gurus can also empower close disciples to bring others into a lineage. Both Lahiri Mahasaya and Yoganandaji did just that. One need not be perfect to serve in this capacity. Despite all the faults and shortcomings of the organization, I believe there are a few in SRF who can bring others into the lineage. I agree with Roland that the important thing is to seek the divine. When the time is right, you will be led to what you need.

username
Registered User
(2/8/03 10:37 am)
Reply 		Re: Bhakti
but if you are saying that yogananda is initiating in a dream, how do we know whether or not it is our imagination?

Borg108
Registered User
(2/8/03 11:56 am)
Reply 		Re: Bhakti
I may be mistaken, but I think somewhere in the Lessons it says that powerful dreams of a spiritual nature usually are valid. The man who went to visit Lahiri Mahasaya for diksha after his dream initiation doubted the validity of his dream experience. But it was confirmed by LH to have been a true initiation.

RolandP
Registered User
(2/9/03 8:06 am)
Reply 		Re: Bhakti
username

Yes, Bkakti is one type of yoga but the path is manifold. All branches of yoga are intertwined. The practise of one type will invariably draw from principles and methods of other types.

I practised Bhakti yoga for years only to realise later that I was also practising Karma Yoga, Raja yoga and Jnana Yoga.

Besides, prayer is a form of Bhakti.

Edited by: RolandP at: 2/9/03 8:31:43 am
GregsBrother
Registered User
(2/15/03 7:54 pm)
Reply 		Going to India
Here are some lyrics by George Harrison. The song is called "The Inner Light"

"Without going out of my door
I can know all things on earth
Without looking out of my window
I could know the ways of heaven

The farther one travels
The less one knows
The less one really knows

Without going out of your door
You can know all things on earth
Without looking out of your window
You can know the ways of heaven

The farther one travels
The less one knows
The less one really knows

Arrive without travelling
See all without looking
Do all without doing"



The idea of people travelling to India and then becoming disillusioned inspired me to find this song and post it.

I am not saying anything negative or judging anybody who wants to go somewhere (like India, or anywhere) to advance their spiritual life.

We are all running the race together, but in very different ways sometimes. Some people are at the point where they need some 1 on 1 with a real Guru in the flesh. Most people, including myself are not at that point yet. We have smaller fish to fry before we go whale hunting.

Of course I would love to encounter my one true Guru in the flesh. But I know what I need to do right now. To travel somewhere seeking a Guru would be just another way of me avoiding the "hard work" that I know I have to do.
(like being more disciplined, less lazy, not drinking beer, lose some weight, meditate, etc etc)

If I did go to India and ran into "my" Guru, I expect he would say, "You know what to do. You are just here because you want someone to do the job for you. Come back when you have overcome the minor hurdles of life. Then maybe you will be ready for to go further."

Someone on this site said that "God is simple, everything else is complicated. Just love him anyway you can."

Thats the program I am on.











RolandP
Registered User
(3/5/03 12:44 am)
Reply 		Guru
Agreed

I would like to interject that you cannot plan to meet a guru. The moment the time is right your guru will appear wherever you are. I understood this before I went to India. Subsequently I never looked, although in my heart I knew such an event would take place.

I was in the south of India, woke up one day and realised I must travel north. 10 days and 2000 miles later a very powerful yogi approached me in the street. He told me things about myself that no one could have known. He also told me there and then about several future events which would take place. These have.

What I would say however is a pilgrimage to India is a valuble and revealing experince whether looking for a guru or not.

Edited by: RolandP at: 3/5/03 3:47:30 am
MastersChela
Registered User
(3/11/04 10:36 am)
Reply 		Conditions in India
My neighbor and good friend just came back from a pilgrimage in India. She said that the conditions there were atrocious. She said she hardly ate anything the whole time she was there because the smell of disel fuel was so terrible that it made her perpetually nauseated. Her eyes were burning the whole time from it too.

She said that some of the others in her group went to Calcutta to see Master's house, and said the conditions there were MUCH worse than they were in Rishikesh were my neighbor was. They had to wear dust masks over their faces the whole time they were there because the polution was so bad, and they said the smog hung in the air like a fog in the streets.

redpurusha
Registered User
(3/12/04 9:14 am)
Reply 		Re: Going to India
"Whatever pilgrimage you make, and whatever religious rite you peform, the ultimate pilgrimage and the ultimite religous rite must be within: the ascending of your consciousness up the spine and the sacrifice of all your lifeforce on the altar of the spine and the brain." -Yogananda (Essence of Self-Realization - from memory).

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