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seekerseeking
Registered User
(4/4/04 12:18 pm)
Reply 		Why SRF makes us crazy
Continuing on the topic of why SRF makes us irrational, I did something totally irrational this weekend: I went out and bought some meditation tapes and books. Why, someone might ask, would someone who is a member of SRF, who has all the lessons, books, tapes, etc., who is a kriyaban, who has the airplane route to God need to be buying meditation books and tapes aimed at beginners in such a mundane place like Barnes and Noble?

Well, I've decided to go back to basics. Start at the beginning all over again. And try to enjoy myself this time.

It's occurred to me a number of times over the years that we, as SRFers, who are on "the airplane route to God" are often so miserable while other people who are on the bullock cart to God are so happy and contented. They don't have Kriya, they're not getting liberated in one lifetime, but are they worried? No! They're enjoying their lives, doing the normal things that normal people do, going to church once a week, or to hatha yoga class, they are content to meditate with their TM technique or relaxation tapes or visualization or whatever they use for 20 minutes once or twice a day and with that they're happy! They feel benefitted, medical tests have shown great improvements in health from such a little bit of simple breathing or mantra-repeating meditation, their blood pressure is lower, their stress levels are down. And here I was, racking my body and brains apart doing my Kriyas on the treadmill from hell trying to get liberated in one lifetime like a crazy hamster on the wheel, feeling so stressed out I thought I was losing my mind.

Well, no more. Maybe it will take me 20 more incarnations to get liberated, maybe a 100. Who cares. But I'm going to take it slow and easy, and enjoy it! SRF says don't get sidetracked with the visions and the astral world, don't enjoy the little things along the way, well to hell with that. I want to see astral beings, I want to have visions, I want to see angels, "I wanna see stars!" <--- sounding like a cable commercial for the Starz network.

I want to enjoy Sylvia Browne and her talks on finding your spirit guide, and on what's on the other side again. I want to reread Dr. Brian Weiss' books on reincarnation, and James van Praagh, and John Edward. I want to do tarot if I feel like it, and astrology, and runes, and I-Ching.

I'm stepping off the airplane route to God, and I'm taking the bicycle. And I'm going to enjoy the scenery along the way! I might not get there as soon, but at least I'll be sane when I do make it.

Grainne Uaile
New User
(4/4/04 4:03 pm)
Reply 		Re: Why SRF makes us crazy
Hi,

You remind me of someone who has been cooped up and has been liberated and so ends up at all the stores, all the hamburger stands, etc. I say go for it. Enjoy life. I did the same. I am reading books on Hinduism from other paths, as well as Buddhism. Today I went to listen to Thich Nat Hahn give a talk, and I am also back to some simple teachings like those of Dr. Wayne Dryer that I have never read before.

I don't care how long it takes me to become liberated either. I just wish I could find a path that suits me in all areas of my life.

I rather liked Thich Nhat Hanh's teaching of living in the moment. Enjoying what is around you, not thinking of the past or the future. I also like how practical Buddhism is in that at the end of the lecture Thich said if we had any questions, problems or difficulties in our life, just write them down on a piece of paper, put them in the bell or the donation box, and they would be answered at the next meeting. Better than just being told to meditate more.

Edited by: Grainne Uaile at: 4/14/04 8:50 pm
WindChimes44
Registered User
(4/7/04 10:30 am)
Reply 		Re: Why SRF makes us crazy
LOL! Grainne.. exactly! Seeker I agree. Joy is an attribute of the state we are seeking after all. The misplacing of the importance of joy and compassion has seemed to me a common thread in what has been going awry in SRF in fact, in so many ways. (I know I put it somewhere...) ;) Thus I think your joyful bullock cart is very to the point.

I have been enjoying the Dalai Lama lately. The compassion in this face!

www.amazon.com/gp/reader/...eader-link

Also I find working on my compassion and spirit of enlightenment in the buddhist way, to the extent a dabbler in buddhism like myself understands it, is valuable. I have been using the 8 verses for training the mind for several months, with great results. (serendipity-- CNN is discussing the health benefits of forgiveness.)

LOJONG: Eight Verses for Training the Mind.
Offered by His Holiness the Dalai Lama at American University, Washington, D.C. in November, 1998.

By thinking of all sentient beings
as even better than the wish-granting gem
for accomplishing the highest aim
may I always consider them precious.

Wherever I go, with whomever I go
may I see myself as less than all others,
and from the depth of my heart
may I consider them supremely precious.

May I examine my mind in all actions
and as soon as a negative state occurs,
since it endangers myself and others,
may I firmly face and avert it.

When I see beings of a negative disposition
or those oppressed by negativity or pain,
may I, as if finding a treasure,
consider them precious, for they are rarely met.

Whenever others, due to their jealousy,
revile and treat me in other unjust ways,
may I accept this defeat myself,
and offer the victory to others.

When someone whom I have helped
or in whom I have placed great hope
harms me with great injustice,
may I see that one as a sacred friend.

In short, may I offer both directly and indirectly
all joy and benefit to all beings, my mothers,
and may I myself secretly take on all of their hurt and suffering.

May they not be defiled by the concepts
of the eight mundane concerns,
and aware that all things are illusory,
may they, ungrasping, be free from bondage.

Posters here are in general so educated in such things that I feel odd adding any explication, but for those not up on buddhist concepts-- seeing all beings as one's mother is an exercise in developing universal love and compassion. If we saw our mother lost and misbehaving and in pain, we would not judge her, but help her. Seeing enemies as spiritual friends is based in the notion that all are the All embodied, and those taking the role in maya of 'enemy' help us develop our tolerance and compassion.

I hope these verses can be the antidote for some of the made craziness. I recently held onto them like a life preserver when sorely tempted to be angry and unhappy. Of course, I glugged bitter seawater and had to regrab the help many times. Good exercise though!

ranger20
(4/7/04 12:44 pm)
Reply 		Re: Why SRF makes us crazy
It's occurred to me a number of times over the years that we, as SRFers, who are on "the airplane route to God" are often so miserable while other people who are on the bullock cart to God are so happy and contented.

Absolutely right. It's amazing when you get outside the SRF ghetto. I have met many more spiritually minded and joyous people in the last year - who haven't heard that they missed the airplane - than I did in a quarter century in SRF.

Some time ago I remember reading of the way Japanese children are "sorted" into career tracks through major exams that start at a very young age. One result was some grade school children who didn't score in the top "rungs" committing suicide. Of course since that time, the US has become the most "driven" developed nation, by a number of measures, so I fear it's only a matter of time until we see such headlines of our own.

The point is, being internally driven is a sure perscription for misery. I suspect that many bring of us bring that trait to spirituality. It is reinforced by a lot of SRF language: "this life is a school," and "try to graduate." I'm speaking from experience, of course. How sad to approach meditation the way we approached the SAT's, and imagine God in the role like admissions officer at Harvard or MIT. There are many factorsin the "misery" you mention, but I think this is one of them. No matter what I do, no matter what spiritual persona I screw on so tight I almost fool myself, I know deep down that I'm not "making the grade."

I learn that whenever I open a lesson or an SRF magazine or book , because one of the very basic pillars of "the teachings" is, "You're not okay." Every year at Convocation it seems one of the more charming monks gets to give a lecture on how much God loves us, and then it's back to hammering in the basic message: "I'm not okay." Last year, for instance, I think it was Bro. Anilananda who got to tell us how God loves us, sandwiched in between lectures on "The 16 Qualities" the Gita says we have to develop. On no! New hoops no one quite realized we have to jump through! I guess I better join the band and the chess club if I want that Admissions Officer to like me!

I've decided to go back to basics. Start at the beginning all over again. And try to enjoy myself this time.

I'm delighted to hear that. I feel like I have also given myself permission to do so. I find very clearly, that right now, for me, simple is best. How refreshing it is to simply sit and watch the breath. I also find I really like mantra meditation. Looking back at several decades in SRF, it is actually striking that any of the powerful "experiences" that still seem valid happened when I was either doing Hong Sau, or repeating a mantra, usually one of my own concoction, that expressed my own spiritual aspirations at that point. No exceptions.

Maybe it will take me 20 more incarnations to get liberated, maybe a 100. Who cares

Who cares. And who says? Only the image of God as an admissions officer. What if God loves me the way I love my dog? What if I love my dog that way because that's how God loves me? Well I'm not really going to flunk him because he's still a bit of a goof in the obedience arena!

And if, as PY said, thoughts are things, and determine reality, what if I let myself believe that God loves me like that!!! It is, after all, what my heart has secretly wanted to believe all along, but didn't dare to because of "the teachings."

For one thing, every time I let myself live in that consciousness, then the "Kingdom" really is at hand. With a conviction that I am loved exactly as I am, there is not so much to attain! Not so much desire to be somewhere other than where I am. I suspect this kind of experience is what is meant as "justification by faith." No more spiritual hoop jumping. No more desperate chasing to get God to love me by bringing home a good report card. No more huffing and puffing to be "one of a thousand." I can just sit down by the side of the road, wherever I am, and declare victory. With just the smallest inkling that God is with me and loves me the way I am (an inkling the size of a mustard seed), life will change radically. The desperation recedes. The SRF ghetto looses it's power to control me. Gratitude and joy are available now, not in some future incarnation when I have "made the grade."

Indeed, it's a great day for a bycycle ride!

Edited by: ranger20 at: 4/7/04 12:48 pm
didgeridootoo
(4/7/04 2:40 pm)
Reply 		We are not being driven crazy
Thanks for these beautiful posts and the poem.

I had an experience in the middle of the night a few nights ago that I cannot explain well, and it changed everything for me. I hope it lasts. I awoke in the middle of the night and realized that my life was a pretense in that I had believed that my sisters had always believed that I was a good person, I believed that I had accepted all of Hinduism when I hadn't, I believed in striving for God, even striving to make things right with my sisters, and that I could make myself accept all of Hinduism, that is, the idea of avatars, that gurus are gods, etc. Nothing seemed real to me and it scared me a little, but I knew that things you learn in the middle of the night are very real and reliable. The next morning the only thing that seemed real was the moment--the bird on my window seal making a nest in the eaves. Then I began to wonder if I was going nutts, but I knew I would know soon enough. Next I realized that I didn't have to make things right with my sisters, if they didn't see that I was a good person, I didn't care. I gave up striving to make them believe me, believe that I didn't steal my dead mother's $40. I quit calling them. I quit caring. Then I saw that if I was in meditation and striving to reach God, that was not real, what was real was meditating and just being in the moment. Since then I have felt much more peacefulness in my life, which made me realize I was not going nutts. I even walked away from Hinduism, but I am not sure if I will go back. For now, I am living in the moment, whatever I feel like doing I will do.

I come on this board and nothing seems important to me anymore. Whether SRF or Yogananda has done wrong, it doesn't matter. They are not a part of my life anymore and brought me some lessons that I needed to learn, nothing more, nothing less. "SRF is not driving us crazy", I thought, when I saw this thread, "we are driving ourselves crazy". Then I remembered how everyone I know is reading "The Power of Now" and so I began reading it since it was on my shelf.

The other thing I felt was that all this reading spiritual books was useless, but I knew I would continue to do so. Also God is inside you, He is everywhere, there is nothing to strive for, and when we say "There is a God," we limit God by that "a." There is only God.

Like Seeker, I am now enjoying myself, because I don't care if I get to any samadhi again in this lifetime. I don't care if I come back again and again. It would be a lie though, to say that I care if this wonderful state of being in what I feel is the moment leaves me. Ha.

Yes, how "wonderful it is to just sit and watch the breath". I began doing that in meditation, and when I do, I listen to the sounds around me, the birds, the planes, everything, and I think of it all as God, and I just feel that "I am here now", and so I dropped the mantra that was given to me because I could not relate to the line of gurus, and I guess I will never relate to any line of gurus.

Ranger wrote: "What if God loves me the way I love my dog? What if I love my dog that way because that's how God loves me?" That is so beautiful. I will add: What if I am God? What if my dog is God?

Ranger also wrote: "Not so much desire to be somewhere other than where I am". Yes. When I left SRF I felt lost. When I left my next religion just because I knew I was playing a game of trying to accept it, I didn't feel lost. I don't desire to go anywhere else, to find another path, but to just be where I am. If on any one day I feel like going to a service somewhere, I will make that decision on the day I feel that way. If I feel like going back someday, to the religion I just left, I will go. I took down yet another altar, just for now, and I put a flower on the altar.


Grainne Uaile
New User
(4/10/04 5:01 am)
Reply 		Re: We are not being driven crazy
Didgeridootoo,

I sent you an ezbox e-mail. You need to check your inbox next to where it says you are logged in--on the right hand side at the top.

Anyone,

I find that I can only post one post a day, but I just learned that I can add things by editing, but of course that doesn't make for a flowing conversation. Since I am a newcomer, is that why I get only one post a day, or is that that you have to pay to post more? Right now I have to go back to the posts and see if I want to add anything and then come back and edit this.

Didger, Windchimes, and Ranger,

Maybe I am wrong but it seems like some of us are looking more towards Buddhism now. Has Hinduism failed us in some ways or not? Or are we all just reading different books to get a broader perspective? I have tried other Hindu groups since leaving SRF, and I am beginning to find that I want something that is more practical. I had a conversation with a man in a Hindu group where I was attending for a while, and he was reading Buddhism and said it was more practical, that they talked about the difficulties in one's life, how to deal with them, and they didn't where we were going, which I had found to be true. I went to a few Buddhist groups since then and found that they would read books and then apply them to one's life. I don't think these are traditional Buddhist, but I don't know. They were not at a temple, just meeting in public places. I remember years ago before ever getting into Hinduism, when I went to a Buddhist temple, they would come and chant and not talk to each other afterwards, unless it was outside the temple, which only a few did. I didn't go to any of their programs to know if they dealt with life's difficulites, only went once to two different temples. If one has left SRF, and one wants to get help, unless you go to a therapist or a minister, where would you go? We all know what the minister would say. Perhaps a therapist would say to stay away from religion, period. Hard to know. But Walrus is a good place. Not sure if the Buddhists would deal with the issues either. I know that Hinduism is vague in their help, at least as far as the few places I have attended. The idea seems to be to not talk about it, to not criticize other religions, and so go where you want. I am beginning to think this idea of not criticizing other religions is because they don't want you to turn around and criticize them. So if they can brainwash you into believing that it is wrong, if you leave them, you will be quiet about it. But maybe that is just the Eastern way. If so, then how can you ever talk over your past religious difficulites with an Eastern group?

Edited by: Grainne Uaile at: 4/10/04 6:18 am
didgeridootoo
(4/10/04 9:26 am)
Reply 		Re: We are not being driven crazy
Grainne,

I have nothing in my mailbox from you, so I will write you a line first.

seekerseeking
Registered User
(4/10/04 10:35 am)
Reply 		Re: Why SRF makes us crazy
Quote:
Some time ago I remember reading of the way Japanese children are "sorted" into career tracks through major exams that start at a very young age. One result was some grade school children who didn't score in the top "rungs" committing suicide.


LOL ranger20, that is a wonderful example. I often felt like those poor Japanese children when I was on the SRF hamster wheel, going round and round in circles, running myself ragged, thinking if I don't start off the day exactly right I'm not receptive, if I'm not receptive my kriyas aren't effective, if my kriyas aren't effective I won't get liberated in one lifetime, if I don't get liberated in one lifetime that means I'll have to come back, if I have to come back I might not find this path again, if I don't find this path again who knows how many more incarnations I'll have to wonder in the dark suffering in delusion. I was in a state of suicidal depression the whole time! It finally came down to a total mental breakdown, and I had to chose, either I kill myself right now or I say to hell with all this and go find myself a more balanced, relaxed path. And that's what I did.

didgeridootoo
(4/10/04 1:43 pm)
Reply 		Re: Why SRF makes us crazy
Seeker,

I know it wasn't meant to be funny--what you wrote, but I had a good laugh because it felt that way to me also, not laughing at the suicide part that you wrote, but the rebirths and the treadmill effect. I had begun to think that the spiritual life was full of too many obstacles, too many rebirths, and was way to serious for me. I was thinking that my own feelings of rejection in the last religion were my own problem, now I know it was real rejection; I just didn't fit in and they knew it somehow. The more I am alone without any organization to lean on, the more I like it. All I want is a nice little technique to use during meditation , one that I feel is reliable and leave me alone. No guru, no organization, just me, my spouse, my friends, and my dogs and horses (that are really someone else's but I take care of them). I will make my own decisions from now on.

Like you, after I left SRF I was really stressed out and yet I don't call it depression, just angry, lost, and very hurt, my heart was broken. Since leaving another group that I had never given my heart totally to, I have not felt any pain in leaving. I know now what I don't want, but I said that when I left SRF.

WindChimes44
Registered User
(4/10/04 7:44 pm)
Reply 		Re: Why SRF makes us crazy
Seeker you start such nice threads!

Ranger-- sitting down by the side of the road and frisking around, ears flapping, as God's best friend is now a wonderful cartoon in my permanent spiritual vocabulary.

Gra -- I have recently discovered how much I enjoy buddhist thought via Thurman's videos, and several books taken from teachings of the Dalai Lama, but that is not because I am turning away from PY. I'm not a 'joiner' anyway But PY and the Dalai Lama fill different areas for me. The DL is so down to earth, with thought exercises that I find very useful in living responsibly and ethically. I think you are right: very practical. Yet that only makes me better suited for PY meditation practice.

I highly reccommend Thurman's DVD on buddhism and the DL's book on developing compassion. It is titled 'An Open Heart' and is wonderful. However, I am a buddhism beginner.

As for not criticizing other faiths.. for me respecting that other faiths may be many people's proper path does not mean I must not notice that one church was marred by the inquisition, many have sex abuse problems, or incite violence, or are marred by greed, or seem excessively severe, and some just do not fit me. For me it seems improper to say MY way is the only right way, but not improper to evaluate anything as best I can.

And here on the walrus we can talk pretty darn freely!

didgeridootoo
(4/10/04 7:57 pm)
Reply 		Re: Why SRF makes us crazy
Windchimes,

I think you said it so nicely in regards to accepting other teachings but how it doesn't mean that you don't notice certain things that are harmful in an organization. That makes a lot more sense to me than to just be told to never criticize any organization.

soulcircle
(4/10/04 8:28 pm)
Reply 		Jason Becker
WindChimes44,

Jason Becker agrees with you. He is helped by that book and read it with deep attention and shared it!!

soulcircle

WindChimes44
Registered User
(4/10/04 9:36 pm)
Reply 		Re: the moment
<<the next morning the only thing that seemed real was the moment--the bird on my window seal making a nest in the eaves>>

Didger that sounds like a wonderful state! Again and again on this board posters speak of their spiritual 'failures' yet their posts demonstrate so much spiritual success!

The pain for many on this board of following their own path as it leads them away from organizations they once hoped to spend their whole lives in does seem to have a balancing reward in most cases.

Also, I want to thank walrus for keeping flamers at bay. They destroy many boards. We can be courteous without being vapid. I tried to read the 'official' SRF board, but though it is cheerful, it is like there is nothing there. The posts seemed like cheers at a football game or something, and provoked no thought. Here there is discussion, agreement and disagreement, much that is educational for me, and all in a courteous atmosphere.

seekerseeking
Registered User
(4/11/04 11:39 am)
Reply 		Re: Why SRF makes us crazy
Quote:
Seeker you start such nice threads!


Thank you, WindChimes. It's nice to be appreciated. :)

I'm already being attacked by some, but I believe it is important to share with substance and to keep it real, regardless of what some may say or do.

WindChimes44
Registered User
(4/12/04 4:34 am)
Reply 		Re: Only 1 post at first
Grai-- I am sorry I did not say this sooner.. I got off into whatever I was merrily typing and forgot. Yes, at first you can only post one. I wanted to post about 6 my first day with all the interesting threads here and whined to walrus. Walrus replied they just do that at first in case some spammer or other disruptive type registers and they switch it over pretty soon.

WindChimes44
Registered User
(4/12/04 5:46 am)
Reply 		Re: appreciation
Seeker,

I saw that 'multifaceted' thread was heating up. I've been here too short a time to know my way around the undercurrents that seem to always be where groups of humans are. It seems we are bound to give each other hives for sometimes clear and sometimes nearly inexplicable reasons from time to time.

The great thing is that we can just post in threads that interest us, and reply to messages selectively. That is much better than hives at closer quarters! (Many of my friends currently have nearly grown, extra annoying, yet dearly loved teenagers at home. Now that is the interpersonal hives too close for comfort!)

My new interest in buddhist thought leads me to say that those who irritate us give us the opportunity to develop tolerance. That is so much easier said than done. Trying it is proving very interesting for me. (At least partly as in the chinese curse 'May you live in interesting times' ha!) I'm batting much less than 500 so far, but the effort feels useful, and even pleasant. The idea is not that one must be passive, or accept anything one differs with, but just that one remains calm and sees the being providing the irritation as a kindly workout partner at another level of reality. I am enjoying trying that outlook. I get annoyed or even angry, then step back and remember all manifestation is at one level the One. It shifts my whole context quite refreshingly. Of course, it would be nice if I were not angry to begin with. But I am where I am and that's ok.

Some internet gathering spots, however, are verbal WWF Smashdown, and those I have decided are not my preferred entertainment. This board seems to allow people to have the full range of emotion yet weed out relentless ranters and provocateurs. I appreciate that too!

ranger20
(4/12/04 11:41 am)
Reply 		Re: We are not being driven crazy
Grainne writes:

Maybe I am wrong but it seems like some of us are looking more towards Buddhism now. Has Hinduism failed us in some ways or not? Or are we all just reading different books to get a broader perspective? I have tried other Hindu groups since leaving SRF, and I am beginning to find that I want something that is more practical.

I don't know if I ever really identified what I was doing as Hinduism. I do find certain Buddhist writings have a very refreshing practical tone, from human psychology to dealing gently with distractions in meditation ( "the way to control your cow is to give it a large pasture" - S. Suzuki ). Somewhere I have a tape in which Thich Nhat Hahn is explicitly telling people they need to return and rediscover their "faith tradition of origin." This is what was so thrilling on a first reading of the AY. Lahiri giving the same council to his chelas.

One of my favorite photos of PY, long gone from current editions the AY, shows him and Rajasi seated on the grass at Encinitas, and is captioned, "A great Hindu Yogi and a great Christian Yogi." I personally think moving away from "just" teaching advanced yoga, and moving to self identify as (the world's greatest) religion was a disaster for SRF, and as this board demonstrates, the chickens are home a roosting. I doubt that a Hindu would identify SRF as Hinduism, and I know beyond any doubt that it is not Christianity.

What it actually has become (law of unintended consequences) is really kind of sad, as it is caught so well in seeker's message:

I often felt like those poor Japanese children when I was on the SRF hamster wheel, going round and round in circles, running myself ragged, thinking if I don't start off the day exactly right I'm not receptive, if I'm not receptive my kriyas aren't effective, if my kriyas aren't effective I won't get liberated in one lifetime, if I don't get liberated in one lifetime that means I'll have to come back, if I have to come back I might not find this path again, if I don't find this path again who knows how many more incarnations I'll have to wonder in the dark suffering in delusion. I was in a state of suicidal depression the whole time!

That's a really detailed image of the God of SRF, which always brings to mind the "mirror shade guard" in the old Paul Newman movie, "Cool Hand Luke," saying for any infraction, "That'll be another night in the box."

Or Bob Dylan (old Bob Dylan - Bob way before VS) "Lookout kid, you're gonna get hit, don't know what you did but you're doing it again..."

Or the God who would crucify his Son just to teach a lesson in forgiveness (when a good parable could have accomplished that). When you really really consider it, that's not a God, it's a monster. Because SRF cannot really say much about the crucifiction other than "Father forgive them..." lest they have to consider the possibility that we're dealing with the God of the Gospels, the God of "the Prodigal Son," who loves us so much he'll give us waivers for skipping our Kriyas or reading about Buddhism.

Edited by: ranger20 at: 4/12/04 11:45 am
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