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Mystic Traveller
Registered User
(11/30/03 8:49 pm)
Reply 		What is happening here!?!
Dear Brothers,

I am a follower of Yogananda (can't say through SRF for sure anymore after coming across this board).

I am greatly distressed after coming to this message board. It is shocking to see Master's work and dream going awry because of bad management.

Organized religion always has got its own problems and ironies, but one thing the world wide Kriya Yoga movement cannot afford is a mutiny in the ranks of SRF at this nascent stage. SRF is perhaps one and only organization capable of spreading Yogic sciences to masses outside India in a meaningful and effective manner. It is absolutely vital that it must be kept working smoothly, despite all the shortcomings that go hand in hand with the concept of organization based spirituality.


In an ideal world, or Satyuga, organizations like SRF may not be needed for this kind of work but it is an absolute necessity at this juncture in the overall Karmic revolution of the world.

So please try to resolve your differences with SRF amicably. The world needs this vehicle to function smoothly for many centuries to come before it is de-engineered , having fulfilled its utility.

Please be aware that all that has happened, due to whoever's fault, is greatly damaging to the morale of the lay devotees of Master and public trust.

Please let your thoughts be guided by Master's love and rememberance that his task is yet unfulfilled and all of you have a role to play in its fulfillment.

Jai Guru!



Edited by: Mystic Traveller at: 11/30/03 8:51 pm
soulcircle
Registered User
(11/30/03 9:57 pm)
Reply 		Kriya yoga and the world's population
Kriya Yoga has found many practioners and people modeling the use of it.
It is not dependent on SRF thank goodness.
Not dependent at all.

Ammach is telling people that are ready, to do Kriya and that it can be surmised from a close reading of the Gita. And it is available on the internet. Mystic Traveller, do you feel that being touched for a short moment by a sister or brother has given people PY's initiation?

Also, compassion is a bit lacking in the Mother of Daya, Daya Mata??

One further thing, you can meditate for ever and fail in your relationships at work, among friends and family.
These relationships are paramount and more so than Kriya itself.
A resoundingly kind heart is far more essential than kriya, yes?
And people say oh YES kriya and devotion go hand in hand. Are they am I walking the walk or talking the talk.

SRF has spent $30 million totally carelessly. Ouch!
Dennis Weaver for years in So. California fed daily, tens of thousands of people. In that you do it unto the least you have done it to me. YES!!!

Ringbearer7
Registered User
(11/30/03 10:24 pm)
Reply 		Re: Kriya yoga and the world's population
"Ammach is telling people that are ready, to do Kriya and that it can be surmised from a close reading of the Gita. And it is available on the internet."

If you can figure out Kriya from reading the Gita then you probably don't need Kriya in the first place.

What's up with Ammachi and Kriya? Does she have that many SRF/ex-SRF followers that this topic comes up often? I hope that she is not recommending people to get Kriya off the Internet.

Punk Yogi
Registered User
(11/30/03 11:42 pm)
Reply 		Another View of Things To Come
Mystic Traveler
SRF has built up a massive shadow due to years of unwillingness to deal with its issues with full disclosure and with courage and humility. Now the moment has arrived and is mounting with critical mass. Feel the Minotaur shake in the labyrinth and know that there is no refuge in the place of artificial harmony and mealy-mouthed platitudes.

The SRF you see suffering today -- which is based on feudalism -- is competing with an SRF of a more benevolent and universal structure waiting to be born. If the world keeps moving towards oligarchies and soft fascism, the SRF of today will survive and thrive. If democratic ideals overtake the master/slave ethos, the SRF of today will find it increasingly more difficult to stay looking credible as it quivers nakedly in the blinding sunlight.


I DUG UP AN ARTICLE FROM A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO WHICH YOU MIGHT WANT TO READ:



Master's Second Mistake

Master made a mistake. He ignored the warnings of an engineer and built his dream temple on the unstable cliffside of Encinitas. The end result of that action was a disaster. Why Master would erect such a gorgeous structure on certain terms that it would be destroyed is a mystery. Yet, in his native optimism, he did conclude that he could salvage its remnants and use them as the "cornerstones" of newer temples.

Masters do not operate on the same set of premises that we do. They can make the same mistakes as us -- even worse ones -- but their actions are timed to serve an ultimate purpose which is sometimes set far in the future.

Before Master's mahasamadhi, he stated his intention to have monastics running the organization. His direct disciples have carried out his directive faithfully -- SRF is now an organization run by monastics and for monastics. The lay disciples are an afterthought, a convenient source of cheap labor, and a deep pocket for their financial appeals.

The SRF of the "Modern Streamlined Yogi;" the SRF which keeps actively abreast with the best of science and culture; the SRF which stands on the vanguard of spirituality, shining as a beacon of renewal for religions lost at sea, fractured by the clashing waves of petty divisiveness and waterlogged by dogma and churchianity; the SRF which models patterns of integrity for a jaded world; the SRF capable of bestowing the Cosmic Mother's milk of kindness and compassion on a thirsty humanity; the SRF so attuned to the rhythm and will of God that there is no reason to rely on secrecy and lies to accomplish its mission -- such an SRF does not exist!

That rarest original seed which our guru carried from on high was to be proliferated in the minds and hearts of an expectant world. But it has been paved over, cemented over, and on that cold foundation an artificial shrine unworthy of his lustre has been erected.

Couldn't Master forsee this degradation? Or was he aware that this would be another one of his "mistakes" with a surprise ending?

It is a new century and we have a promising future before us. As our Master said, "The world is marching on." But is SRF keeping pace? Or is it straggling behind, caught up in its own energies and opinions about itself? There are a few here and there -- soon becoming a multitude -- who can no longer sacrifice their consciences in an effort to maintain the facade worn by the leaders and supporters of this troubled organization.

It is as if we are once again standing on the water's edge at Encinitas. But this time, The Golden Lotus Temple is not what's falling. That was only a prelude of things to come. This time the impending calamity is far more tremendous in scope and the stakes are higher.

When the Golden Lotus Temple began to slip, there was nothing anybody could do but stand and watch. Broken shards of glass and sundry decorative pieces were found strewn up and down the beach. It was one of Master's shattered dreams. And yet, the pieces of that original dream somehow became spores in a fertile wave of temple building. So all was not lost.

Has it occurred to you that history is repeating itself? Once again the "engineer" speaks, and this time it is the Matas who aren't listening. Was this Master's second mistake -- to appoint people of faulty vision at the helm of such an important work? Forgiveness does not cancel the pull of gravity. We can try to understand, and for various reasons, make every attempt to be loyal, but, in the end, none of that will stop the slipping once its begun.

Brothers and Sisters. It has begun. Against such monstrous weight, there is nothing one can do but stand and watch. When the haze clears, you must take from the wreck what you can and build anew.

In the future, there will be an orthodox church of yoga for the masses -- a place of simplified spirituality which provides a safe and sanitized version of truth. This will be our Matas' legacy to posterity. And running parallel to it will be numerous groups which come to preserve and vitalize what is now the most colorful but neglected hope of our guru ---- that there one day be a future world civilization resiliently reflective of God's creativity urge and freedom --- a world without boundaries, a world boundlessly benevolent.

soulcircle
Registered User
(12/1/03 5:41 am)
Reply 		if you have kriya practice it
about half of the people at Ammachi's ashram in San Ramon........... she hugged 6500 people in her last night (November 29th, 2003) of the 2003 Fall program in Nothern California, between 10PM Saturday and 1:30PM Sunday straight thru without even getting up, and that means in her case (even though she has diabetes) not going to the bathroom for over fifteen hours (doctors are dumbfounded) ................about half the people it seems with Ammachi in San Ramon California have kriya from SRF, Ananda, etc.
She does not tell people to get it from the internet, although the way I wrote above left that impression

so among those who have kriya she may tell them to practice it
the person who talked to her most clearly about it that I am aware of, was told, of course follow your heart, of course practice kriya when the benefit is clear
when asked in front of more than a thousand people about the ("bus route" was the actual phrase the kriyaban used) airplane route, she said that attitude was paramount. She said all of life is the express route to God. She talked at great length, sayng such things as always be a beginner. The swamis following talks also spoke on this subject. It was the talk of the remaining days of that program. I posted a long summary on this board at the time from a friend's notes.

Edited by: soulcircle at: 12/1/03 5:46 am
KS
Registered User
(12/1/03 6:45 am)
Reply 		The decline of SRF is no accident
Interesting question from Mystic Traveler. I guess you are new here and probably have not had many experiences with the internals of SRF. I was once like you and felt that the organization was needed and even a holy place. I learned differently.

What would Master think? What did Master want for SRF? Punk Yogi made some good points about the current state of SRF and many threads here document all kinds of abuses of power. It is a mess. SRF knows and practices Master’s teachings about as much as the local grocery store, actually less. So how is that possible? Isn’t Kriya important for the world?

I feel in this case the most obvious answer is probably the correct one. It is obvious that SRF is more of a drag on the world than a help and Master would have known this would happen. Putting the Matas in positions that would have allowed their power grab in the 1950’s MUST have been part of his plan? Why? How else are you going to diminish the influence of the organization during a time in history that so easily worshiped false Gods? Master needed to make sure that the organization did not become the central focus of his devotees. The only way to do this was to put things in motion that would allow the organization to slowly dry up and blow away. With leaders even somewhat holy the organization could probably have survived for a long time. That survival allows Satan to use SRF as the Golden Calf to get between God and the devotee. (Has anyone read the Bible?)

A great Master would have no ego about his organization and would easily let it go. In fact I am suggesting it was his plan that it go away. He would see the limitations of people in this age and know that people would be drawn to the power of cult leadership. The kind of power those leadership positions would provide would be VERY corrupting. Master knew that without him the organization would do more harm than good. Master said in 50 years he would not recognize the organization! What a truly great Master Yogananda was to set all this in motion for the good of his devotees.

Master’s hand is all over this. As SRF declines more and more devotees will have a better relationship with God. SRF served its purpose and will now go away. The organization has no value to devotees.

Mature sincere devotees will see that SRF does not equal Master. I suspect the decline of the organization was scheduled to take place once the publication of the teachings was secure and there were enough mature sincere devotees that would see what was happening and understand it. We truly are moving into a new age. It is a great time to be a devotee of Master’s.

Edited by: KS at: 12/1/03 6:49 am
nagchampa2
Registered User
(12/1/03 7:57 am)
Reply 		Re: Another View of Things To Come
(This message was left blank)

Edited by: nagchampa2 at: 12/23/03 7:33 am
etzchaim
Registered User
(12/1/03 8:53 am)
Reply 		Re: if you have kriya practice it
I also have Kriya from another place, the Kriya Yoga Temple, in Chicago. My Guru is convinced, as was his Guru, that large organizations are one of the worst possible ways to spread Kriya and any other set of mystical techniques. There is also Oliver Black's and Bob Rayner's place, up in Michigan. Haven't checked it out yet, but it looks to be true to Yogananda. I'm planning on going over this summer to meet them, have a tour, and see what's up there.

According to my Guru's Guru, he and Yogananda actually spoke about the pitfalls of large Yoga organizations. Shelley remained mostly a hermit and took a few disciples. My Guru started an organization and then limited it. We're very concerned about the pitfalls. He also avoided the whole monastic trip. Love the teachings, not the teacher. Teach what you know and help where you can. Several fellow disciples have gone off to form their own small centers and several just teach where they're at, where ever that happens to be.

SRF people appear to me to be really uptight about certain issues and decidedly unsupportive of each other. That's rather the opposite of my group. We encourage everyone to teach whatever they know, and to be honest about where they are at. There doesn't seem to be the idea of their being 'special people' who know more and that others should be sheep - some people obviously do know more, but it certainly doesn't make them "higher" or "superior", it means they can share more.

I really question the idea that an organization like SRF needs to be there. KS's post, that Yogananda planned it's demise, or at least knew of it, makes sense to me. It seems that the seeds were planted and what was useful in the first half of the 20th century may cause more damage than good in the 21st. The way to go appears to be in the small, self-sustaining, or workable city-based spiritual communities, or just small groups of people affiliated with each other for community and spiritual work. Net-working is easy, these days, assuming we can get over the idea that "we are the true, pure strain" and all else is corrupted and lies. It seems it would be better if the large corporation was broken up into smaller ones, not centrally lead through a manipulative team of power hungry ego's. I recall one of the changes in the Autobiography - Yogananda's statement about who to get Kriya from. He actually said, any Kriyaban. SRF changed it to SRF approved swamis.

Edited by: etzchaim at: 12/1/03 12:43 pm
bsjones
Registered User
(12/1/03 11:19 am)
Reply
ezSupporter
 The True Guru is Within
Not having ever been on the inside of SRF, I have not heard anything that makes me think the top SRF people are "bad" or insincere. Perhaps they are misguided or incompetent.

I think they might be better off if they just stick to publishing the AoY at a reasonable price (which they do), and stuff like that. But quit rewriting it to say in effect "if it doesn't have the SRF logo, it may not be from God".

ranger20
Registered User
(12/1/03 12:23 pm)
Reply 		Re: The decline of SRF is no accident
KS writes:
Quote:
A great Master would have no ego about his organization and would easily let it go. In fact I am suggesting it was his plan that it go away. He would see the limitations of people in this age and know that people would be drawn to the power of cult leadership. The kind of power those leadership positions would provide would be VERY corrupting. Master knew that without him the organization would do more harm than good. Master said in 50 years he would not recognize the organization! What a truly great Master Yogananda was to set all this in motion for the good of his devotees.
That's something interesting to ponder. I recently posted something George Burke atributed to Yogananda, which I have not heard quoted anywhere else, suggesting that he knew the fate of this organization, but stopped short of suggesting he intended it.
Quote:
When speaking of his public work he [Yoganada] also said that within three generations it would be as though he had never come-such would be the degeneration on an institutional level. If his hearers expressed chagrin as [sic] this statement he would assure them that his work would go on-but not under his name. "I have planted the seed," he would say in conclusion.
- Abbot George Burke, in An Eagle's Flight. Attribution and other quotes/discussions in the "Non-SRF Teachings and Ideals" area under George Burke.


nagchampa2
Registered User
(12/1/03 1:12 pm)
Reply 		Re: if you have kriya practice it
(This message was left blank)

Edited by: nagchampa2 at: 12/23/03 11:32 am
Ringbearer7
Registered User
(12/1/03 7:18 pm)
Reply 		Re: if you have kriya practice it
Soulcircle,

Thanks for the clarifications.

Borg108
Registered User
(12/2/03 1:49 am)
Reply 		Re: The decline of SRF is no accident
KS raises an interesting point that SRF is destined to devolve according to the divine plan. I see that happening so that intelligent truth seekers will go more within instead of trying to find satisfaction from an organization. I don't, however, see SRF ever drying up and blowing away for two reasons. First, there will always be a group of conservative people who fit perfectly with the organization. They will be able to continue working on their karmic patterns, Which we all have. Some will have the karmic need to exert leadership or receive respect and adulation, make $30 miilion blunders, or behave badly in other ways until they learn the lessons they need to learn. Secondly, SRF will disseminate meditation techniques and how to live principles to the masses that will help many lead virtuous lives and evolve slowly toward spiritual realization. Thus, it too is part of God's plan, just as is the Catholic Church, which has created much misfortune in the world (crusades, inqusition, etc.) but has still borne a few saints and helped many people slowly evolve through virtuous living and divine recollection. Life is a smorgasborg - not everyone wants or needs the same things from it. Those who don't want SRF will also find their own way.

Edited by: Borg108 at: 12/2/03 9:32 am
member108
Registered User
(12/2/03 6:50 am)
Reply 		Is SRF needed???
I think KS may have a point also. But the Borg108 ideal that SRF is necessary is just more cult thinking. More people attend a college football game than actively participate in SRF and yet you think they have a role to play in the big picture? Have you bought the religion of the new age story?

Kriya existed thousands of years before Master. Eastern thought existed thousands of years before Master. He wrote wonderful books explaining things in ways some people in this age can understand. That is a great gift. We can get these books from Amazon.com and the Internet. To think that we little people can’t understand the message and need to hear it from an emotionally damaged monastic is just old thinking. Give yourself a little credit.

There will be no shortage of opportunities iin the world for people to grab power, make mistakes, abuse people, lie, cheat, etc... They don't need to reflect on our Guru while doing it.

Go directly to your Guru!

Edited by: member108 at: 12/2/03 6:52 am
YellowBeard420
Registered User
(12/2/03 7:30 am)
Reply
Nice Welcoming Committee
Poor Mystic Traveller, you guys are like animals -- you attack in the safety of packs. He/she actually makes a good point about the organization of SRF. In the cult buster scene, SRF is hardly mentioned because it's recognized as a "non-aggressive" cult. You guys violently assault SRF and anyone who speaks kindly of it. You think that Daya Mata is the Wicked Witch of the East simply because she's fired a few people (all businesses have to do this) and a few other little inconsequential things. Now I think most of you know that I oppose spiritual hierarchy, so I have no reason to want to defend SRF. But you guys blow it out of proportion, and I have a theory as to why. You see the faults in Yogananda so you want to believe that the problems are really with SRF. You think Hitler is a swell guy, it's just the Nazi Party that is the problem. Some people actually believe this. You know, Hitler never wrote anywhere about actually killing Jews -- it's even debatable if he actually ordered it. But regardless, he put the ball in motion. And so did Yogananda. You guys come up with some crazy stuff here to defend the pristine image of your guru. The things he wrote that you don't like -- you say SRF wrote. Be honest here people, do you really think that the very minor problems with the SRF organization is what you're all really so concerned about? Or is this a projection of something else onto SRF. We might say scapegoating, that's probably appropriate since Hitler's been brought up. Are you trying to explain away the imperfections of your guru?

dawnrays
Registered User
(12/2/03 7:53 am)
Reply 		Re: Nice Welcoming Committee
And so did God (put the ball in motion) blah blah blah..

Ahoy Captain and how was your Thanksgiving? Did you find plenty of mash potatoes, yams and turkey to pass to yourself?

The problems with the organization are what's happening HERE AND NOW in 2003 and I think that's why there's a focus on this.

If you would bother to read a thread or two, you would see that part of the reason (or a big reason) why people are angry with srf is this sanitation of his image and the self serving way they use it to control others (as in the devotees being a model of perfection!) It helps to keep the authority figure (daya) in a balance of power.

Most people dislike and resent this image after a while and also thier editing of his works.

YellowBeard420
Registered User
(12/2/03 9:14 am)
Reply
Re: Nice Welcoming Committee
> "Ahoy Captain and how was your Thanksgiving? Did you find plenty of mash potatoes, yams and turkey to pass to yourself?"

Thanks for asking. My Thanksgiving was nice as I hope yours was as well. Hopefully hubby wasn't out bombing the world at the time. I'm teasing a bit there, but actually I'm being honest in that I hope he was on leave at the time -- if not, hopefully for Christmas. And yes I did enjoy passing all those goodies to mySelf.

> "The problems with the organization are what's happening HERE AND NOW in 2003 and I think that's why there's a focus on this."

I really don't see all the horrible atrocities being committed by SRF in the here and now. Nothing much more than any other successful business outfit.

> "why people are angry with srf is this sanitation of his image"

If they didn't sanitize his image, you guys wouldn't be terribly interested in worshiping him. They're doing their job quite well. Isn't the goal here to worship Yogananda blindly? I mean don't you guys think that is the way to some kind of heaven? Do Kriya and have unquestioning faith in the Guru -- isn't that what you guys believe in? Well some of you do not like the unquestioning faith in the guru bit. But that was part of his doctrine. He was a God and Guru man all the way. But some of you just want to do the Kriya bit and to just give Yogananda a pat on the back and a handshake. If that's the case, why do you care about whether his image is sanitized or desanitized? You say people are being abused in the Monastic order. They can leave. It's like an abused spouse staying with an abusive partner. They got themselves into the situation and they have to get themselves out. You just pack your bags and go. I'm overly simplifying this situation, and in all honesty I do feel for the suffering of people caught in these situations. But there aren't many reports of sexual abuses coming out of SRF (you guys taught me that one) -- that's why I'm not being very sensitive on this issue. I don't see the great harm being done just because people are being told that they can't eat meat and that they should not shag so much. There's something fishy in this strange walrus soup you guys got here. Perhaps we'll figure it out.

dawnrays
Registered User
(12/2/03 9:43 am)
Reply 		srf and the Lessons
Thanks yourself!

Actually I'm wondering where you get the idea that the goal is to worship Yogananda blindly? Is that written down somewhere? Is it in the lessons or any of his writings? I'm hearing you and it just seems like you're preaching to the choir. The whole problem with srf is the distance from the teachings.

Thank God they are so free flowing and encouraging of indepedence and independent thought, or we'd really have a problem. As it is the glaring chasm between the teachings and the actual dynamics of the organization are the motivation and the purpose of this board.

I'm not an authority on ashram life and I never was employed by srf. All I know is what I have read here. Another reason of course for a board like this is that ashram life is very secretive and most of us on the "outside" are really just learning about it.

I don't know what your actual association with srf is. I assume you are not an exmonk or employee? Do you have any background (a member of a temple or group) besides being a former lesson student? If not, you are very quick to judge other people's problems. There are definitely major communication problems within srf.

YellowBeard420
Registered User
(12/2/03 11:43 am)
Reply
Re: srf and the Lessons
> "Thanks yourself!"

There's that feminine grace that mystifies me such.

> "Actually I'm wondering where you get the idea that the goal is to worship Yogananda blindly?"

From him.

> "Is that written down somewhere?"

Yeah.

> "Is it in the lessons"

Yes

> "or any of his writings?"

Yes, all of them.

> "it just seems like you're preaching to the choir."

That's basically what I'm doing.

> "The whole problem with srf is the distance from the teachings."

I don't see any great distance from his teachings. SRF even offers several audio recordings so that you can hear the words right out of his mouth. They're interesting looks into his colorful personality. He says some wild stuff like, "You Americans believe in karma when there is no such thing which can pin you down." Something to that effect, he actually says it in a more striking fashion (maybe someone knows the exact wording here, it's something you don't tend to forget, so I doubt many will try to deny this statement). But it's the Indian gurus, himself included, who have perpetuated the idea of karma and how you can't fully become Enlightened until you clear up all your karma (with the guru's help of course). But I think this was his Christmas talk where he was meditating for hours on end -- he was high as a kite, you can hear it in his voice. I actually agree with this statement on karma. But this shows how his spiritual views would fluctuate which means that he wasn't in some sort of permanent state of realization as people like to believe. But the point here being, you can hear some interesting stuff from him in these recorded talks. I don't think they've been edited much at all.

> "it is the glaring chasm between the teachings and the actual dynamics of the organization are the motivation and the purpose of this board"

I know I'm being a little smart-alecky with some of my responses here. No need for us not to be able to have some fun with all this. Never take what I say too personally when I do these things. On to what you've said here -- I am actually listening to what you're saying very carefully. I do understand that this is the purpose of this board. But I do not honestly see this chasm between his teachings and what SRF is today.

> "I don't know what your actual association with srf is."

I'm simply a former SRF Lessons student. I attended temple services and meditations, but that's really the extent of my involvement. So I can't speak on ashram life. But trust me, if there's dirt, I'm the last person that would want to hide it. Don't you remember how hard I was trying to dig up stuff in my first thread? :) If there's real dirt, I wanna know about it.

username
Registered User
(12/2/03 11:50 am)
Reply 		chat anyone?
chat room is open

soulcircle
Registered User
(12/2/03 3:35 pm)
Reply 		four of us chatted
today four of us entered the "Join Chat," SRF Walrus

thank you SRF Walrus for adding this feature to the board

we hope to meet there on Tuesdays
Noon Pacific Time
8:30PM Pacific time

Possibly other days at these time
Anytime when we can find someone in there

Personally i have spent a few hours sitting in there
Twice I was joined by a second person
And today by three others

Thank you username and the others

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