>
SRF Walrus
Mt. Washington, Ca
Open discussions about SRF
Gold Community SRF Walrus
    > Core Issues
        > The real question		 New Topic    Add Reply

Page 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19
<< Prev Topic | Next Topic >>
Author Comment
nagchampa2
Registered User
(2/10/04 3:53 am)
Reply 		Re: You have been heard!
SayItIsn'tSo,

I can understand your point, so even I went back and took the names of certain posts off my post above. I have also seen some things of my own posted on another board by someone else, but my name was not on it, so it didn't matter. What is on this board is there for all the public to see anyway. Some boards are closed, so only members can read them. Even other websites get posted on this board. It really is a touchy subject.

Edited by: nagchampa2 at: 2/10/04 4:52 am
nagchampa2
Registered User
(2/10/04 4:26 am)
Reply 		Re: Leaving the Guru
Ranger20,

"The SRF quotes I've posted suggest that the organizational stance is, if you leave, you won't find any guru for a while". I had that same feeling from that quote. As if, if you left Yogananda or even them, you would not come back to any guru for many life times, or I would question, was it them? That would be a good question to ask them. I think I will. Hope I remember. If it is the latter, well, I never want to go back to either. If it is the former, then that is a lie, because many have found other gurus after leaving SRF.

A "bona fide" guru is just another word for a "true guru." To give up a guru means to no longer consider him your guru, to walk away from him. I think it really depends on how you feel about him. Do you want to even give him up? You don't have to give him up even if you have doubts about him, but if you do, the pain does go away eventually. I felt a lot of pain when I left SRF and went elsewhere, and even though where I am now feels like heaven to me, it still took a while to get over the pain of SRF, and then it took time to get over Yogananda when I began learning things about him.

There is a long list of what a "bona fide" guru is. I have it written in this thread with web sites to go to.

You wrote: "My heart says it wants to take it's place with the other popcorn eaters on the bullock cart". I thought a lot about that statement that was posted on the other thread yesterday, and I came to the conclusion that an organization with a lot of rules is one that wants a lot of control over others. I remembered how I even had to control my speech in SRF. There was no freedom. It took me over a year to get over that after leaving and going elsewhere, where I sat and observed people's actions and reactions to others for some time, and I was always amazed at the openness, the honesty, how you could be yourself, think for yourself, question atthority, and even eat popcorn, cany, and drink cola, while watching "Cold Mountain" at the movies. (Now that is a great movie.) Someone in the temple bookstore where I often attend, said to my comment of "I buy a lot of books here but have only read 25 out of the 100 that I own." "You can read them when you are ill." I said, "No. When I am ill I can't read, I watch TV all day long." Now, say that in SRF without getting a reaction. So not all organizations are against popcorn and movies about saints or even movies that are not about saints. I was by the way, buying a book by the trappist monk, Thomas Merton.









Edited by: nagchampa2 at: 2/10/04 4:31 pm
SayItIsntSo
Registered User
(2/10/04 9:29 am)
Reply 		Re: You have been heard!
Yellowbeard is the moderator of that site where my quotes ended up, and if Yellow is true to course as he says, he'd not allow that kind of posting on his site. ( It would be different if I was part of that discussion, but here I am over here minding my own business and the next thing I know I'm being "analyzed" on another board!)

It's left me with a bitter pill to swallow--a "realization" if you will, of how vulnerable we are when we share our spiritual wounds with strangers.



Edited by: SayItIsntSo at: 2/11/04 4:55 pm
nagchampa2
Registered User
(2/10/04 4:14 pm)
Reply 		Re: You have been heard!
SayItIsn'tSo,

I went to read the posts. I can understand how you feel now. The only way you can prevent more of this from happening is to delete every one of your messages here. At least no one knows your real name. If you have met people who you relate to on this board, just e-mail them, but you would have to open up your ezmail box to do that.

For one thing, from your many posts, you do not seem at all mentally ill to me, and so my feeling is that you stated you were because you felt confused from the teachings and things that you learned from SRF, and it is disturbing your mind, which is normal. It is logical to feel one way one day about SRF and then change your mind maybe even days later. These issues are very confusing for many of us. Going through the trauma of SRF, losing something that was important to you, can cause you to feel that you are losing it mentally, but you aren't. Part of the going back and forth is mainly because you are unsure of what you feel about SRF.

This board and other boards are very hard on many who come here to talk about their problems, and often they find instead of getting help in understanding what is going on, they get verbal abuse. The one thing that happens over time is that you toughen up to the abuse or leave. This board has far less rules than many, but it is the only one that deals with leaving SRF issues.





SayItIsntSo
Registered User
(2/10/04 4:22 pm)
Reply 		Re: You have been heard!
Hi Nag,

Oh, well... I'm not going to delete everything because I want those who leave SRF to know they aren't alone. But I did edit them. My gut is this person didn't intend to be offensive; but I took it that way--writer in me, no doubt. I didn't intend for them to get the boot--that was Walrus' decision.


Edited by: SayItIsntSo at: 2/11/04 4:56 pm
nagchampa2
Registered User
(2/10/04 4:40 pm)
Reply 		Re: You have been heard!
SayItIsn'tSo,

Good for you. Others in SRF that come here do need to know that they are not alone. Hey, I even worried about my sanity when I left SRF, but I was assured that what I was going through was normal. Some days I would feel one way about SRF, other days I felt the opposite, even in regards to Yogananda. I finally had to learn the truth from someone I trusted before I realized that my intuition was right all along. We really don't like feeling these things about SRF, and especially, for me, I did not like feeling bad about the guru. SRF was a place that I came to in order to find God, to feel safe, not a place where I would be told lies, have things hidden from me, and be told to conform in so many subtle ways.

If Voice is banned from this board, it has nothing to do with you. It would have to do with the long list of postings that Walrus didn't like.

I don't think they intended to be offensive either, but it is still upsetting to see your words posted elsewhere.

ranger20
Registered User
(2/10/04 4:49 pm)
Reply 		Re: You have been heard!
Definately do not delete things. I've resonated with some of your postings to a particular degree.

Someone (or more) seems to be crossing boundaries with disruptive stuff on various boards. I glanced at the "official" (aka "bliss bunny") board, and saw that several people had received nastygrams, featuring, among other things, a story of PY putting a lemon under his armpit to slow his pulse.

I remember such an item popping up here, though I skimmed by, since I don't take such gems of physiology on faith, and I didn't have time or interest enough to try it out.

The whole scenario reminds me of the old Usenet message group days, when AOL first started handing out demo disks. So much bandwidth got filled with nonsense or worse, that I think AOL got a bad rep that still sticks somewhat. It settled down eventually. My hunch is that some of the people grew up, or had to get jobs, not necessarily in that order.

The real problem as I see it, is that ridiculous or offensive posts and behavior on SRF boards lends credence to the party line that would paint every critic as deranged, in the same way that anyone connected with Ananda is dismissed.

At this point, I'm web-savvy enough to almost automatically filter out the noise, but I do so because I know there are items of value here. But it troubles me to think how I would have reacted if I'd landed on some of the more acerbic items when I first came here. I would maybe have missed a lot of support, for what you know well, is a difficult separation.

So by all means, leave your messages, and know for certain, someone will come here as a guest, and really need them.

nagchampa2
Registered User
(2/11/04 3:03 am)
Reply 		Re: You have been heard!
I agree to not delete. I was just offering SayIt a solution, because I had no other. But he or she hung in, and that is good.

I still wish this thread were placed under Disscussions on Yogananda, but maybe Walrus has other plans for it. Hard to say.

I am leaving the board, so this is my last post. I hope all the above information is helpful to others in the long run. I just found that I have run out of things to say.






Edited by: nagchampa2 at: 2/12/04 3:54 am
seekerseeking
Registered User
(3/20/04 8:03 am)
Reply 		Re: The real question
This has been a very interesting thread.

Some questions keep popping up in my mind, though. How can there be these two very different, conflicting sides of Yogananda?

Why is it that, for every terrible allegation made against him by people who were close to him, there are countless others who were also there who give testimony to his perfect, flawless character and moral standards?

For instance, the allegations by Nerode and Dhirananda about his personal harem going in and out of his bedroom late at night. The mothers of some of those young girls in the so-called harem were also close disciples of PY and even lived on MW or spent long periods of time there. Wouldn't they have known what was going on?

It seems so strange that some people report stuff that is just so different from what the majority of those who were there say, and so out of character for PY. How do others reconcile this?

bsjones
Registered User
(3/22/04 12:20 pm)
Reply
ezSupporter
 Re: The real question
I mean no dis-respect, but I don't rule out the possibility that a great teacher can also be something of a "horse's patoot" at times. Having certain weaknesses is part of being human. But of course that's just my opinion at this time.

didgeridootoo
(3/22/04 4:03 pm)
Reply 		Re: The real question
bsjones,

I liked what you had to say. My thoughts too are, whoever PY was and whatever he did or didn't do, we must all remember that he was a human being first of all.

Edited by: didgeridootoo at: 3/22/04 9:08 pm
seekerseeking
Registered User
(3/28/04 9:23 am)
Reply 		Re: The real question
I've been thinking some more about this and a thought occurred to me. The reason I'm having such a hard time believing these sexual accusations against Yogananda (besides the obvious, that they're so out of character for him) is that none of the supposed victims have come forward to claim that he sexually harassed them, rather the accusations are coming from third parties. This is somewhat unique, in that if you'll notice, in nearly all cases it's the victims themselves (or their parents if they are children, which isn't the case here) who come forward and accuse the perpetrator. And there's been plenty of examples of that all over the media lately, from Michael Jackson to the scandals of the Catholic church and more. And yet, none of the women who were supposedly sexually exploited by Yogananda ever came forward and claimed he did this to them, even though a good number of them are still living today! Daya Mata, Ananda Mata, Mrinalini Mata, Uma Mata, and others who are still alive were the core of the so-called harem in those days, allegedly going in and out of his room at all hours of the night, allegedly being initiated naked in these bizarre aquatic initiations, and yet not a single one has ever said "yes, my guru did this to me!"

The third reason why it is so difficult for me to believe this is that I can see right through his accusers and their motivations. Anil Nerode is a well-respected math professor at Cornell, and for me that's where my respect for him ends. Frankly, his motives for smearing SRF and Yogananda are so transparent. He is the son of a mediocre yogi who barely reached the heels of Yogananda and now in his old age, close to death, the good old professor wants to vindicate his father's name so he can profit by publishing his few paltry works. IOW, $$$. Well, that is all fine and good, but to smear Yogananda in order to accomplish that is, well, being a dirty chiseler. Sound familiar?

It was Yogananda who was sent to the West to spread Kriya Yoga by Babaji, not Nerode, not Dhirananda, not anyone else. And it seems back then, as now, there were always a few who believed themselves to be more deserving. Babaji obviously thought differently.

I keep an open mind on everything, and am always willing to consider any evidence anyone may have, and I have my gripes against SRF and the way it's being managed, but frankly this smear campaign against Yogananda stinks to high heaven and the motivations of the accusers are very obvious and transparent.

Edited by: seekerseeking at: 3/28/04 9:35 am
WindChimes44
New User
(4/3/04 10:11 pm)
Reply 		Re: the real question
I have really enjoyed reading the posts on this board, though I have not read even half of them so far. I have begun to skip YBs, but not only are most of the points of view interesting to me, but for me they are a wonderland of useful concepts, practices, and experiences!

As to the central question of this thread, for myself I assess PY by his effect in my own life, which has been wonderful. I do not expect him to have had no faults, nor do I expect his teachings to be ‘the one the only the perfect’.

I would be saddened if teleporting to MW long ago I found the sexual allegations to be true, but even in that extreme case, I have found my inner guidance from PY to be nonjudgmental and benevolent when I am clearly astray and would return the kindness.

Yogananda introduced me, via AoY, with charm and considerable power, which may itself have been some dreaded ‘siddhi’ ;) , to a whole array of spiritual ideas. That, in itself, is enough to make PY more than all right by me. But in addition i have had guidance and aid from PY, never forced upon me, but there whenever I ask, for many years.

That is worth so much to me that hearing, for example, that he had a hot temper in life, seems miniscule. Also human! He was perfecting himself as I am trying to.

When he is accused of gluttony it cracks me up. I read he had been thin as a boy, with a lot of digestive health problems, and if I am not mistaken becoming ‘robust’ by indian standards (read chubby by american standards) was a gift his guru bestowed upon him. Thinness was then considered unattractive in india. His joy, to be blunt, at not throwing up all the time, being able to enjoy food without feeling ill and being plump was something good in his eyes. That is how I see it as well. I am glad he could enjoy meals as an adult. But then the current american cult of anorexia holds no appeal for me.

Organizationally... well, most churches get caught in politics and self preservation woes. The ‘we are the most perfect church’ stuff is hideous, but everywhere. The Episcopal church seems to do better than most in that regard, but I think just looking around it is clear how ubiquitous such problems are.

I have found AoY and the lessons to be amazing in how much benefit I have derived from not that many words. Each lesson proved much more than I could fully utilize in one week! And AoY gives me something new each time I read it.

So, no PY did not build an organization that is free of the flaws most organizations have. Yet, overall, there is so much good! Look at the wonderful posters on this board, all touched by PY at some point in their growth.

I am particularly sorry that SRF narrowed from the broad views of PY under what I hope is well intended leadership. But sometimes I have wondered if PY steered different devotees toward different tasks in spreading realization. A narrow bunch seems good for sending out lessons and keeping properties nice. An urge to keep everything just so is what is needed for that useful work.

But that is my overview. I do not mean to minimize the sorrow that any drawn to PY were treated unkindly and worse, nor ignore that there would likely be more devotees if the organization had not taken the tone it has.

I hope this board helps anyone hurt in SRF find support and healing.

As to the teachings being 'to blame', for me the proof of the teachings is how they unfold in my life. That is what I am best able to examine. And in my life they are a blessing.

moyma
Registered User
(4/13/04 11:21 am)
Reply 		Re: You have been heard!
the real key is the vibe of the person....If you live on a level where sex is that important to you your whole life would crumble around you.you can't live a lie..... it just doesn't work. How could you keep any kind of spiritual vibration by having sex all the time....I think the stories about PY are garbage..... Same goes for Kriyananda , I've met the man a few times and I don't think you can put out that kind of energy by being a sexual pervert or for that matter having just a normal sex drive.....The energy and joy that comes from him wouldn't be there even if his sex drive where normal.....I'm not saying there couldn't be slips but they couldn't be that big of a deal because you could tell just from the vibe of the person....you could feel it.our you could feel the lack of it.....there magnetism is the key

Page 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 << Prev Topic | Next Topic >>

Add Reply

Email This To a Friend Email This To a Friend
Topic Control Image Topic Commands
Click to receive email notification of replies Click to receive email notification of replies
Click to stop receiving email notification of replies Click to stop receiving email notification of replies
jump to:

- SRF Walrus - Core Issues -



Powered By ezboard® Ver. 7.32
Copyright ©1999-2005 ezboard, Inc.