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wholetruth
Registered User
(12/16/02 9:05 am)
Reply 		Re: Moral Courage
Chela2020:

Are you still going to Vedanta? How's that working out for you?
I really love Swami Paramananda's writings. He was a disciple of Vivekananda and founded Ananda Ashrama (La Crescenta, CA)/Vedanta Centre (Cohasset, MA). Have you ever visited them in CA? I did years ago, enjoyed it a lot, but found they didn't have the intensity of SRF--this was probably a good thing, but I didn't realize it at the time.

Edited by: wholetruth at: 12/16/02 7:48:12 pm
chela2020
Registered User
(12/17/02 6:39 am)
Reply 		Re: Moral Courage
Yes, I am still going to Vedanta, and it is working out very well. I love it there. Through them I learned to forgive SRF, and to understand things better, but actually, there was not much to forgive, as SRF didn't really do me harm. I received much from my experiences there.

I have not read anything by Swami Paramananda yet, although I have seen his books in their catalog. Well, yes, I did order a book from Ananda Ashrama by him on Christ.
My favorite author is Swami Prabhavananda.

Edited by: chela2020 at: 1/20/03 10:05:35 am
wholetruth
Registered User
(12/17/02 7:35 am)
Reply 		Re: Moral Courage
Swami Paramananda's BOOK OF DAILY THOUGHTS AND PRAYERS is an excellent aid to daily devotional meditation. It's like an expanded version of the SRF SPIRITUAL DIARY with a slightly different focus, of course. Paramananda's books of poetry are sublime, but they're not all currently in print (but will be in the future). With all of his writings you get the impression of a real man of God and spiritual powerhouse. There isn't the heavy editing you find in Yogananda's works, but they're not trying to present the Swami as an avatar. They don't have SRF's missionary agenda. Paramananda was somewhat horrified by Yogananda's campaign to deliver India's highest teachings to the masses. This is mentioned in his biography.

Vedanta Centre/Ananda Ashrama was thrown out of the Vedanta Society because Paramananda's designated successor was a woman, Srimata Gayatri Devi, and the Vedanta Society said they must bring over a swami from India to head the organization. Paramananda in his own right had always been a non-conformist and believed women to be equal to men spiritually and in leadership roles. (I doubt that he would approve of the SRF BOD, however!)

What I meant by the lack of intensity versus SRF is that the members seemed like ordinary people and didn't put on airs of aloof, anti-social, meditational saintliness, as seemed to be the practice at SRF.

Edited by: wholetruth at: 12/19/02 6:36:58 am
chela2020
Registered User
(12/17/02 8:37 am)
Reply 		Re: Moral Courage
Dear Wholetruth,

Thank you for the names of the books by Swami Paramanandaji.

There are other non conformist Swamis in Vedanta who believe that women are equal to men, etc. And I had read about Gayatri Devi in the book "Vedanta for the West" by Carl Jackson. In the book he states that after Swami Paramananda's death, the members wanted his niece Gayatri to take over leadership, but the Ramakrishna Order has always insisted on its sole right to choose society leaders and has always named an Indian monk trained at Belur as the successor. I can't judge them for this, and I no longer get into the politics of an organization because it gets in the way of my own progress. I just know that not all Swamis think alike, and I like that because it gives one the ability to choose the one that is best for you. And yet I have never met a Swami in Vedanta that I didn't think was just wonderful and loving, whether he was liberal, conservative, a non-conformist, etc. The politics of any religion has its own problems, and so now I just try to not deal with politics; instead I deal with individuals and remember that we are all on our path to God.

That is interesting what you said about the lack of intensity in Vedanta. I also I like the openness and friendliness of those in Vedanta. So I agree with you and don't see any as pretending to be saintly, aloof, or anti-social. And yet at the same time, I have felt their saintliness and wished that I could be the same, and then someone shows me their humanness, and I am relieved. Ha. I am not sure why SRF feels different in regards to friendliness. I know that Bro. Ramananda has done his best to change this at the Encinitas Temple, and I hope that his Tea Time program has helped and feel that they should start this program at other temples. I also know that Yoganandaji often said to "Stay more by yourself," and I felt that maybe people felt that it was important to not socialize even when doing volunteer work or after service. But I don't know if it was this way when Yogananda was here in the body, and yet it seems to me that he used to tell people to not socialize during their volunteer work. And in general it seems that meditation groups are not very social, because the idea is to find God, to spend time in meditation and less with others.

As for what Swami Paramananda said about Yogananda, well, I find that interesting in light of the fact that I can't find any Swami in Vedanta who would even put Yogananda down; instead I had them tell me that he was a great Master and that I should not listen to the gossip about him, etc.

Edited by: chela2020 at: 12/18/02 4:23:50 am
username
Registered User
(12/18/02 7:22 am)
Reply 		Re: Moral Courage
yes, it is said "do not socialize" after meditation services especially, it is announced before leaving the temple.

Volunteer work was also done segregated by sex

wholetruth
Registered User
(12/18/02 7:42 am)
Reply 		Re: Moral Courage
Chela, you have to remember that Paramananda and Yogananda were contemporaries so at that time there was not the reverence and awe for Yogananda that developed after his death--something that SRF has carefully cultivated and spread about. In his lifetime, he was just another Hindu swami/teacher, although considererd authentic and very successful.

Here are a few quotes from Paramananda's biography, A BRIDGE OF DREAMS.

"Paramananda's followers were shocked to see pictures of Swami Yogananda smiling down on them in the Boston trolley. Paramananda responded sometimes by becoming even more low-key; when he saw Swami Yogananda's large advertisements in the Los Angeles newspapers, he withdrew his notices entirely."

"...He never condemned any figure, but to his community he disclosed his disdain for 'anyone who goes after sensationalism.' 'This is not a cheap philosophy,' he declared. 'God is never a popular subject, and those who have tried to preach Him have never been widely accepted.'
Despite all disavowals, Paramananda could not escape the effect of the backlash against other Hindu teachers. Once he was scheduled to speak in Louisville immediately after Swami Yogananda had appeared in that city. The Christian clergy's protest against Yogananda's advertisement appearing on the Church Page made the newspapers reluctant even to announce Swami Paramananda. His lectures had to be listed as 'Reverend Paramananda.' 'I cannot tell you,' he wrote to the Vedanta Centre, 'how sorry and distressed I feel when I come upon these episodes.'

I was probably incorrect to say that he DIRECTLY commented upon Yogananda's activities.

Edited by: wholetruth at: 12/18/02 8:10:13 am
chela2020
Registered User
(12/18/02 10:58 am)
Reply 		Re: Moral Courage
Wholetruth,

I can very well understand Swami Paramananda's feelings about religious advertisement. That is one thing that the Vedanta Society never does, not even today, at least not to my own knowledge, but at the same time, does that make Yogananda wrong or bad? I don't think so, but that is just my own opinion. He just had a different way to get his message across.

Edited by: chela2020 at: 12/18/02 1:49:46 pm
chela2020
Registered User
(12/18/02 11:02 am)
Reply 		Re: Moral Courage
Username,

Is it still announced at some meetings to not socialize after meditation? I know at Encinitas Bro. Ramananda used to try to tell us to socialize afterwards, and then I told him how Siddhi Yoga had a meal after their services, and how friendly they were. And Tea Time was created. And I know that the men and women at Encinitas work together, but we seldom spoke to each other whether it was women speaking to women, women to men, etc.

GregsBrother
Registered User
(1/7/03 10:44 pm)
Reply 		Re: Moral Courage
May I, in ignorance, suggest the following?

That Yogananda was a monastic.

That he in turn, taught his monastics to not "socialize" after meditation.
For example, he told the "matas" to not eat popcorn and gossip after their long Friday night meditations.

That is fine advice for monastics.


BUT, is it good advice for householders to follow? To NOT "mix" with their fellow devotees?


How is a community to be built, without interpersonal communication?

This is another point about the difference between monsatics and regular householders.




chela2020
Registered User
(1/8/03 8:41 am)
Reply 		Re: Moral Courage
Gregsbrother,

You are right in that he was training monastics. But I have noticed in all meditation groups that socializing is not the big thing. Some organizations are friendlier than others by socializing after their meetings and other functions, but basically the life of a person who is meditating is to be spent more in solitude. But while many of us are drawn to the meditative life, we are still newcomers to it and desire to socialize. I think eventually you come to a place where you prefer to meditate over socializing. I am definitely not there yet, even though I have meditated for over 8 years.

KS
Registered User
(1/11/03 7:16 am)
Reply 		Re: Moral Courage
I thought this thread was on Moral Courage? Walrus, a little triming is needed?

redpurusha
Registered User
(1/21/03 10:23 am)
Reply 		Re: Moral Courage
In real life when people have conversations almost always the conversation meanders into different directions or strays into a subject matter somehow related to the one being discussed. Somtimes the topic which it turns into is more interesting and stimulating than the original. But other times its not, so Walrus has to make the tough decision to cut the thread. I like it when the thread keeps going even though it has nothing to do with the title because that means people are actively thinking and contributing to the board. To cut that off is like someone shutting off a tv programming you are really getting into and are following.

IMO, I believe that neither extreme of sensational advertising and hiding out in secret is an effective one. There must be a course in the middle where you can humbly go about practicing and also spreading the teachings/message. If -in the name of humility- these realized saints and God himself, were to hide out and never bother revealing themselves to the general public than that would be very dissadvantagous to society as a whole. Gods light, shining through those who present that message should not not be blocked out.

Edited by: redpurusha at: 1/22/03 8:15:02 am
username
Registered User
(1/28/03 7:16 am)
Reply 		To red purusha
please stop editing your messages. It takes my time to click on topics that indicate a new message... and alas there is no new message... just a waste of time on my part. I do not bother to reread edited messages - I don't even remember what was written before because there are so many messages on the board.

Thanks for your consideration.

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