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seekerseeking Registered User (4/10/04 10:15 am) Reply	Damaged People in SRF One thing I noticed during my association with SRF was the amount of damaged people there. I'm talking about psychological damage here. People who are carrying around a lot of baggage from mental/emotional abuse, physical abuse, sexual abuse, abuse as kids, abuse from spouses or partners, abuse from other family members, abuse of all kinds. These people come to SRF seeking solace and help, and instead what they find is stuff like kill your ego, you're suffering because you are ego-bound, you need to get rid of desires, you're not important, nothing matters, it's all delusion anyways. Then they tell you the way out of this mess is Kriya Yoga. I realized most people leave SRF because they didn't receive what they were looking for. Let's face it, 99% of life's problems don't require Kriya Yoga, they have simpler cures. Kriya Yoga is a very effective technique if you are at the very end of your soul's journey (Bro. Anandamoy likes to quote PY as saying "Kriya is not the beginning, it is the end of the Path"). But for most of us, our problems can be solved more effectively with a change of environment, or a change in diet, or a change of job, or therapy, or simple meditation, or a visit to the doctor, or hypnosis, or past-life regression, or whatever. Using Kriya Yoga to solve most of our human problems is like going to the doctor complaining of a little heartburn after a meal and the doctor saying we need a heart transplant. After pondering about this for a long time, I've come to the conclusion that the number of people in SRF who are really ready for Kriya Yoga, who are really at that point where Kriya Yoga is the thing they need the most in life, is very tiny. Minute. Maybe 1% or less? Let's face it, most of us probably still have a number of incarnations left. We are nowhere near that point where we can sit down and do the hundreds or thousands of kriyas that advanced yogis need to do. It's just not as simple as giving Kriya to the common man and saying here, this is all you need. For most people it seems a variety and combination of lesser, simpler methods is all that is needed. And as we've all seen, trying to go the Kriya route when one is not ready and when what we really need is something else can have disastrous consequences. It can really aggravate whatever problems you were already dealing with. And it seems from what I've seen that so very few of us really are ready for this "Kriya is all you need" approach. Edited by: seekerseeking at: 4/10/04 10:23 am
didgeridootoo (4/10/04 1:52 pm) Reply	Re: Damaged People in SRF Seeker, What you are saying reminds me of the book "A Path With a Heart" that I am reading. I was talking to someone today about leaving yet another organization after leaving SRF, and she said, "Your family abuses you, they say to stay in touch with your family anyway, and they abuse you. You are still in the same pattern of abuse." You said: "for most of us, our problems can be solved more effectively with a change of environment, or a change in diet, or a change of job, or therapy, or simple meditation, or a visit to the doctor, or hypnosis, or past-life regression, or whatever." Very true. For me it was staying away from some family members and leaving another religion. And see, no more problems. LOL. I was told that I could solve relationship problems with meditation, given time. Then I read in the same book how the author had been a monk for years, and when he left the monestary, he couldn't relate well with others. He is now a psychologist and still a Buddhist. I thought about it, how those in SRF, even the monks and nuns, can't relate to others. Hmm. Meditation doesn't solve all problems. Kriya doesn't either. And no one wants to talk about the problems.
apsarasRLD Registered User (4/10/04 2:49 pm) Reply	Re: Damaged People in SRF One thing I noticed during my association with SRF was the amount of damaged people there. > That's very true. Then they tell you the way out of this mess is Kriya Yoga. > To a large extent this is true too. I realized most people leave SRF because they didn't receive what they were looking for. > Receiving sounds so lazy. Which is also a reason many quit. Let's face it, 99% of life's problems don't require Kriya Yoga, they have simpler cures. > Any suggestions? I don't think you'll find a more powerful tool and nothing else has been simple so far in my experience.
didgeridootoo (4/10/04 3:36 pm) Reply	Re: Damaged People in SRF Seeker wrote: "I realized most people leave SRF because they didn't receive what they were looking for". Apsaras answered: "Receiving sounds so lazy. Which is also a reason many quit". I don't believe that this is true Apsaras. Many people don't quit because they are lazy. I think we should expect certain things from an organization. After all, life is a give and take. I don't think that Seeker is lazy or that the idea of receiving is lazy. You don't always get what you put into something. Sometimes relationships are all one way. In regards to SRF, leaving has nothing to do with being lazy. Most people who have left SRF have gone elsewhere and have continued on their spiritual path, and that is not laziness. The reason why people leave SRF is written all over this board. As far as Kriya being the best method, I found this on another board: pub177.ezboard.com/fcultb...21&stop=28 I think that you have to realize that every religion believes that it has the best method. Never be fooled by that. Whatever works for one person may not for another. Edited by: didgeridootoo at: 4/10/04 3:42 pm
WindChimes44 Registered User (4/10/04 6:56 pm) Reply	Re: Damaged People in SRF Seeker that is very thoughtful, and thought provoking! I particularly appreciate it since I am just beginning to practice kriya, and am considering what balance between kriya and other spiritual practices will be best for me. I feel pretty sure I have plenty of lives worth of karma to deal with and I think I would be wise not to go to extremes. From AoY and the lessons I do not get the sense that PY himself taught 'kriya, kriya, kriya.. nothing else just more kriya'. There is a great deal of moral instruction, other useful techniques, concepts to gradually transform our thinking, just so much more! And a great respect for the householder. Also, PY made it clear in anecdote after anecdote that he himself and many other devotees spend multiple lives on the path even at very advanced levels. Thus it saddens me to hear that SRF seems to overemphasize kriya practice, and that members have some sense of failure if progress requires time. Of course it requires time! Yes, some Awaken without spending numerous lives working toward it intentionally, but their stories are pretty uncomfortable for my taste and some even seem insane. So much has to be made ready for Awakening to be a gentle bliss (my personal preference when I look hopefully into the future). If one has had the karma to have an abusive childhood, then burning that karma super fast does not seem sensible to me. One must forgive, find one's responsibility in the karma, rebuild love for self and others, rebuild trust. One must come to peace. Lots. For myself even the lessons were a bit discouraging in one way. There is SO MUCH in them. Now of course that is mostly wonderful. What a treasure trove! But I was over my head with more practices (which were new and challenging and that I could barely even do) to fit in each day than I could manage very early. In short seeker, I agree with your interesting post. Still.. as others point out, people do progress. I am so acutely aware of posters here complaining about how their many years of kriya let them down somehow who, to me, are beautiful shining souls of obvious spiritual attainment. I think many have achieved a great deal and just somehow do not feel their accomplishments.
seekerseeking Registered User (4/11/04 11:48 am) Reply	Re: Damaged People in SRF Didgeridootoo wrote: *Quote:* I don't believe that this is true Apsaras. Many people don't quit because they are lazy. I think we should expect certain things from an organization. Thank you, didgeridootoo. If there is one thing one can't accuse most SRF members of, that's being lazy! Just look at all the stuff they ask you to do and how willingly most of us did it! If you're doing your meditations, Energizations, Hong Sau, Aum technique, Kriya Yoga, plus regularly reading the lessons and books you're doing more than 99% of all the people in the world are doing! Most are just content to go to church twice a year on Christmas and Easter and they consider themselves good Christians! As to the receiving thing, everything humans do on this Earth is with the expectation of receiving something. Why do 99.9999% of people go to work if it isn't with the expectation of a paycheck??!! Why do Christians go to church, and muslims pray five times a day, and Hindus bathe in the Ganges or go to die in Banaras if it isn't with the expectation of receiving something??? Yogananda even wrote that Jesus was good because he expected to receive some reward for it. That even Jesus realized if it weren't for that incentive there would be no point in being good.
seekerseeking Registered User (4/11/04 12:04 pm) Reply	Re: Damaged People in SRF WindChimes, You bring up a number of good points. Yes, the lessons are long, and there is a lot of stuff in them. When I was taking them I liked them a lot, but felt they were too drawn out. Three and a half years is a long time! Then I learned that Yogananda hired someone to write them (even though SRF tells you PY wrote them himself) and gave the person instructions to draw them out as long as possible to keep the students hooked longer, so they wouldn't just get Kriya after one year and then leave the org. Yes, the message from SRF is very subtle on the "Kriya is all you need" line, like everything else. They don't hammer you with it, rather it's woven in subtly here and there. That quote of Lahiri Mahasaya in the AY that says "use kriya to solve all your problems" or something like that, along with other similar quotes, are often used by the monks and nuns and counsellors when you go to them for spiritual counselling or help with a problem. At first, it was very thrilling, something like "wow, I've got the greatest technique in the world that can solve any problem, the Philosopher's Stone, I'm so blessed." But then reality sets in and no matter how many kriyas you do, your problems are not solved, some are getting worse, and some could have been solved more easily with a visit to the doctor, or therapy, or switching jobs, or moving, or whatever. Ultimately, each person is different, and each will get out of it what they can and move on. Even though SRF does not publish official statistics, it's widely known that the vast majority of SRF members do not practice Kriya regularly, if at all, even though they may have received it. Edited by: seekerseeking at: 4/11/04 12:36 pm
didgeridootoo (4/11/04 2:23 pm) Reply	Re: Damaged People in SRF Seeker, It is true, most SRF don't do Kriya, most never received it, others just don't do it. I spent about 4-6 hours a day of my lazy ways doing Kriya. I was doing better when I was just doing Hong Sau for an hour twice a day because it was not mechanical. I was so lazy that I did volunteer work too. Now, I guess I am lazy because I ran into a Hindu organization that said, "we mainly do seva," and I decided to seva myself from more work. I am beginning to think that seva, which many consider another way to reach God, is just a way to get a temple cleaned for free. Maybe I am becoming cynical. LOL. I am not really against doing seva, but if you are prompted to do so because it will save you, then forget it. I will do it because I want to, because I enjoy it, or because I can be helpful, but for no other reason. I have learned that there are no types of meditation that solves problems. I think you solve them through your head and heart and not by how many quiet breaths you accumulate.
ranger20 (4/13/04 8:18 am) Reply	Re: Damaged People in SRF One thing I noticed during my association with SRF was the amount of damaged people there. I think such "damage" is almost a prerequisite for taking any spiritual path or practice seriously. I don't think I've ever met anyone involved in any depth in a spiritual discipline who was there because they were cruisin' through life, tra-la-la. So in terms of organizations, in part it becomes a matter of "By their fruits ye shall know them." How are such people doing in a year? Three years? Five years? Ten? Twenty? Are they getting better or worse, or just surviving? A touchstone for the restoration of seriously damaged people through spiritual practice is 12 step groups. Many of us have probably witnessed or experienced the incredible transformations that can occur, real alchemy, lead into gold. Wounds become strengths, or as they used to observe in the men's movement, the wound is where you'll find a blessing. On one hand, this isn't a fair comparison: comparing SRF and 12 step groups is like comparing carburetors with cheereos - both have their place. Yet the comparison does seem worth considering in any spiritual organization if people's "damage" is not healed, or even gets worse.
WindChimes44 Registered User (4/13/04 10:26 am) Reply	Re: Damaged People in SRF seeker, I am amazed at this <<Then I learned that Yogananda hired someone to write them (even though SRF tells you PY wrote them himself) and gave the person instructions to draw them out as long as possible to keep the students hooked longer, so they wouldn't just get Kriya after one year and then leave the org.>> Who was hired to write them? Are you saying there is no PY input? ranger, you are so right that most spiritual movements contain many damaged people. That old saying that 'church is a hospital for sinners, not a museum for saints' comes to mind. (But I do find that to be an overstatement.) SY's statement 'Those too good for this world are adorning some other'... he is such a card! But I do suspect most humans are damaged to some degree. Maybe the most damaged have the greatest desire for change, thus concentrating many damaged people and a few saints closest to the center. Which leads me to wonder if while PY lived he drew devotees to him from past association, but now SRF functions more like other self help organizations, and thus attracts the damaged. Yet here, on a board for SRF refugees, I find people who seem more sound than average, or so it seems to me. Did the work they did improve them, or are they refugees because they were more sound to begin with? On kriya vs simpler methods-- It has interested me how many here have mentioned how poorly the lessons teach the energization exercises. I struggled with 8 and 8a and I am convinced that to this day I am clueless and not doing anything in the ballpark of what is intended! Do the EE work for any of you? I have also enjoyed hearing that many here find hong sau so useful. I do too. The very first time I tried it my breath stopped briefly and I often experience a state I do not know how to describe, but that I find beneficial. The closest words I can come up with for it is that I experience my body as energy rather than matter, and feel great peace. Well I experience everything as energy actually, or the way all manifestation is empty but alive... it is hard to put in words. I marvel that such a seemingly simple technique can do so much! And the postings here seem to confirm that many people find hong sau to be a great technique. AUM is a technique for me more about connection. In other posts I have gathered ranger and seeker may not have found kriya to be greatly more useful than these simpler techniques. Am I understanding you correctly? I am so glad to have the opportunity to ask these questions of people with decades of experience.
ranger20 (4/13/04 12:08 pm) Reply	Re: Damaged People in SRF Who was hired to write them? Are you saying there is no PY input? Among my SRF chums the consensus always was that "others" wrote them, under some degree of supervision. I had not heard that someone was "hired," and I had not heard the "long drawn out," tale before. Yet here, on a board for SRF refugees, I find people who seem more sound than average, or so it seems to me. Did the work they did improve them, or are they refugees because they were more sound to begin with? I have no idea on how to answer this one! I was recently reflecting on an element of the American psyche illustrated by a story from the American revolution. I read this a few years ago, in a history of the period called Angel In the Whirlwind. People know how Lafayette brought aid to Washington, but not as many know there was a Prussian officer at Vallye Forge, who volunteered to drill & train the American farmers and ragamuffins and instruct them on the kind of European battlefield tactics they were facing from the British. The Prussian officer later said the Americans became very good soldiers, but he was taken aback because they always wanted to know "why?" He was used to unquestioning obedience. It took a bit of adjustments, but once he got used to telling the troops the rationale for this or that tactic or manouver, he would tell them and then they would do it very well. I've wondered if that's not a little of what is going on now. It seems India has an age old tradition of unquestioned obedience to the guru. We do not. I recall Joseph Campbell talking about the Grail Legends. He made much of the fact that the seekers "set out, each entering that part of the forest that appeared to them the thickest. It would have seemed shameful to them to follow another's trail." Campbell sharply contrasted that tendency with the eastern psyche. For good or ill, I certainly identify with those "western" tendencies. Do the EE work for any of you? I start most days now with more rigorous hatha yoga postures, though I still do the EE's once or twice a week, to keep in practice. One thing I think is very good about the EE's is that I think almost everyone can practice them. I probably won't be doing shoulder stands when I'm 80, but (if all goes well) I should still be able to practice the EE's at an advanced age. In other posts I have gathered ranger and seeker may not have found kriya to be greatly more useful than these simpler techniques. Am I understanding you correctly? I tend toward that opinion, and I tend to give more time to the simpler techniques, but I would not make any such "definitive" statement. It's perhaps more a statement of personal preference, that doesn't mean I'm going to drop the more complex practices. Edited by: ranger20 at: 4/13/04 12:18 pm
didgeridootoo (4/14/04 3:12 am) Reply	Re: Damaged People in SRF "One thing I noticed during my association with SRF was the amount of damaged people there". That is quite an interesting statement. I have heard this over and over again, that people in SRF have problems. I think one has to then define "damaged." Most people in our society have been raised in dysfunctional families but most are not psychotic, just neurotic if even that. I have met very few people in SRF or in other Hindu or Buddhist groups that are psychotic. It seems to me that religion has helped more than hindered anyone. Years ago I did volunteer work for Suicide Prevention and the Red Cross, and I learned that those who had the most psychotic problems were not interested in God, and if they were, they thought they were God. Many were truly psychic and didn't know how to deal with their perceptions and were labeled crazy by therapists who didn't like being seen through, being called on. I came to feel that a lack of faith, a lack of following what I called back then, "The Ten Commandments" had caused many of those people's problems, but I also realized that they had a inate tendency to be crazy, so it really didn't matter if they had a belief in God or not but most didn't. Maybe some crazy people do look to God to solve their problems and so join religions but most don't; most look to their therapist as God. I also wonder if a person who is "damage" who comes to any one of the eastern religions to learn meditation, gets better or worse? I think it depends upon the group you join. If you have been raised in a family with verbal abuse, and then you join a religion that does the same, you are basically in the same boat and things can worsen for you. If you were ignored as a child and come to SRF, you will find the lack of association just as painful as the family you grew up in. "The most damaged have the most desire to change." I believe there is some truth to that, but as you also said, those on this board seem sound. I agree with you. I have thought about my own family members, how my oldest brother, who is an atheist, rose above the verbal abuse, married a great woman and raised a fine daughter. He won't put up with the abuse. Whenever he came home and the abuse started, he left and would not return for years. I did the same, but I spent years trying to overcome the abuse. My two sisters are stuck in it and find it normal and continued with it in their own families. They didn't look for growth. One is an atheist, the other believes in God but never goes to church. My brother and I spent the most time trying to change our lives. I was an atheist for a number of years. I didn't come to religion because I wanted help with my problems, because I had adjusted and was in a happy relationship and had good friends. It was that I had a desire to know if there was a God, and that drew me to reading eastern religion since I felt that Christianity had failed me in my youth. I found that meditation made my life more meaningful and more peaceful, but when I came to SRF after two years of meditation, coming back to an organization caused problems to arise because people were not friendly in SRF. After leaving SRF I went where the people were friendly, but I heard stories of how people left due to being criticized by the swamis, and it began to feel like my own family again. You were told that they scolded you because they loved you, and those who were scolded said that it really helped them, but when I was scolded, it didn't feel like it was out of love but that it was abusive, and in turn, when I tried to talk about it to devotees, they would be harsh with me, and I began seeing a pattern of abuse. Those who were abused, abusesd in return. What people called strength, that is standing up to you for complaining, I called a weakness; even meanness. The healthy thing for me to do again was to leave. And now I feel peaceful but will continue to meditate. There may be no organization for me and that is okay. Perhaps the entire world is a "disfunctional family." LOL. I also think that the most "sound" people leave organizations. The most sound are rebellious. They are not the sheep of this world. I think this could be touched upon more by someone who understands this better than I, but I admit, I am a very rebellious person. I agree that "wounds become strengths." My wounds were being verbally abused, and I am learning in my life to stand up for those who have been abused and for myself. I lack tolerance in those areas and desire to learn compassion if it is the last thing that I do. I believe that the monks and nuns who left SRF were the healthiest in SRF, saw the harm in staying and left. I didn't find SRF that harmful to me in regards to the lack of fellowship since I was adjusting and had made friends. I left due to the way SRF treated PYs direct disciples, etc. Basically, it was still issues of abuse, because I didn't like how they were treating others.
didgeridootoo (4/14/04 3:22 am) Reply	Re: Damaged People in SRF Windchimes, There was PY input as regards to the lessons, but I believe there was a staff of writers, like Kamala and Wright. Swami Dhirananda wrote much of his works, sued, and won. What is important is that PY got the works published. He spent much of his own time giving lectures around the U.S. He drew in the crowds. I found Hong Sau very peaceful also. I felt when I began doing Kriya the peace left. When I finally gave it up a year later and went back to Hong Sau, it came back. How wonderful it is that you are able to experience everything as energy. I wish that I had not wasted my time doing Kriya, because I feel my time would have been better spent just doing Hong Sau. I felt that the Aum technique could have been wonderful for me, but I could never accomplish it. My wrist hurt due to having carpal tunnel syndrome and then ear phones to block out sound didn't work, so I gave up. I wish that I had never given up the E. Exercises either. Maybe I will ask to have those lessons sent to me again, unless someone here can e-mail them to me.
redpurusha Registered User (4/14/04 6:53 am) Reply	Re: Damaged People in SRF didgeridootoo, I have found combining kriya with hong-sau to be effective. P. Yogananda taught to practice these excersizes in a partitcular sequence for a reason. The lessons present them in a vey general way for the masses, but I've found only by customizing the exersizes was I able to derive benefit from them. In Essence of Self-Realization (Walters), Yogananda is quoted saying, "if you want to be a master in this lifetime, practice hong-sau for at least two hours every day." Now, I'm not saying we're likely to be masters by doing hong-sau, but obviously the practive of watching the breath is instrumental in one's spiritual progress in self-realization. Initiatially, when my head was in the clouds and I lost interest in anything outside of religion, I hoped to do kriya like half the night or some crazy long period every day, but I've found that the process is a gradual one, and that there are many other factors besides kriya, contributing to one's development. Such as: one's diet, acting with non-attachment, having a healthy social life, having some worthwhile wordly ambitions and ways of making a living for oneself. Hong-sau interiorizes the mind and prepares it for the more advanced practice of directing the life-force around the energy centers along the spine and brain. This is why it is taught to practice hong-sau for a short period prior to Aum and kriya meditation. didgeridootoo, I too lost interest in Aum when my arms began to hurt and the sheer discomfort of the position as given in the lessons was not working for me. Luckily, I've found the use of comfortable ear-plugs (I had to experiment with various types first), to make the practice comfortable and worthwhile. Lastly, I've been experimenting with practing hong-sau while laying down in bed after my regular meditation. The advantage of this is that it is a very comfortable position, enabling you to meditate for long periods of time, while the disadvantage is that one can easily slip into the subcousious. I've had mixed results. Initially, I was able to stay alert and practice the technique of concentration for a couple hours, feeling more alert, rested and sharper then ever in my life the next day. But lately I've been falling asleep quickly and have a hard time not slipping into the subconscious. But I have to admit, that hong-sau is very powerful and I've gotten more immediate results than compared with kriya.
didgeridootoo (4/14/04 10:25 am) Reply	Re: Damaged People in SRF redpurusha, I really liked the Aum technique, but earplugs of all kinds gave me earaches, as did the ear phones. I tried everything and then gave up. I have ever sensitive ears and can't even hold them closed with my fingers without getting earaches. Runs in the family. I just found kriya too mechanical, and so I find I prefer either a mantra medtation or just watching my breathing. Interesting that Yogananda said that you can become a master in this lifetime with just two hours a day of Hong Sau. I don't imagine it would make me a master either, but I do know that meditation helps a person on the spiritual path.
ranger20 (4/14/04 1:11 pm) Reply	Re: Damaged People in SRF I just found kriya too mechanical, and so I find I prefer either a mantra medtation or just watching my breathing. Interesting that Yogananda said that you can become a master in this lifetime with just two hours a day of Hong Sau. I don't imagine it would make me a master either, but I do know that meditation helps a person on the spiritual path. The practices I enjoy most are also watching the breath and mantra meditation. Which one I choose at any given time is often situational. For instance, on work mornings when my time is fairly brief, and I may be anticipating the day ahead, I generally work with a mantra, which I find more powerful in calming myself in a fixed period of time. In the course of the day I also have a phrase going, and am in the habit of returning attention to that or to the breath, so I'm really working mostly with the breath and mantra, both in sitting meditation and activity.
Grainne Uaile Registered User (4/14/04 2:06 pm) Reply	Re: Damaged People in SRF I like all the ideas here. Breath, mantra, and then a mantra duing the day, like the book "The Way of a Pilgrim." I find it hardest for me to do the mantra during the day, but I try; yet it escapes me too easily. By the way, Didger, Thich Nhat Hanh also has little phases that you can also say when you are watching the breath. They are in one of his books. Edited by: Grainne Uaile at: 4/14/04 8:46 pm
WindChimes44 Registered User (4/14/04 4:42 pm) Reply	Re: Sharing meditation experiences I cannot tell you all how much it means to me to have found this community that is not a confining church. Since I never joined SRF my experience has been meditating alone with inner guidance and help, but no other embodied devotees to talk with. From what I have read here concerning kriya I am beginning to suspect that since it 'burns karma' that it also, naturally, forces us to face karmic things and is thus not as comfy as other practices. I have decided to practice it carefully, with restraint, and if my karma reaches speeds I have trouble handling, to slow down with kriya till I get those lessons learned. I think this board has eased my path a lot! (My prayer for myself and all my friends and enemies.. for everyone... is that we learn what we need to learn as gently and as joyfully as possible.) I generally do hong sau lying down. I sometimes do a little hong sau if I am waiting seated in a car or waiting room or something. Considering how powerful I find it to be I can easily believe the PY quotation! I rarely do more than 20 minutes at a time though. As you can see I probably have done the fewest total hours of meditation of anyone here. I suppose I am changing this thread into one that belongs under techniques and advice. Oh well. Sorry walrus! But didg, that is why I call myself a tag along little sister. I am not even initiated into kriya yet! Ranger, I just recently started trying to slip a little hong sau (in little bits of free time) or a mantra into ordinary activity. I think as I get better at it that it will really improve my ability to live more ethically. Particularly as in not being easily irritated or provoked into negative emotional states. (One of the sadder things about what I have read here about people's experiences in SRF is that statements like the one I just made about negative emotional states have been misused hypocritically to prevent light being shed on real problems, thus poisoning something precious. That is hard to get free of I bet.) Hearing what others do and how it works for them is very helpful guidance. Thanks to all who have posted!
redpurusha Registered User (4/15/04 6:43 am) Reply	Re: Damaged People in SRF P. Yogananda is quoted saying this, but from what I remember he also adds "in addition to your regular kriya practice." I will look it up today to get the exact quote so as to be accurate. In SRF's version of P. Yogananda's sayings (Sayings of PY), he also mentions this. He answers a devotee's question of how can one become a master besides kriya, by saying the only other way is to contentrate on the Christ center (ie concentration technique of hong-sau). This is also from memory. I have these exact quotes but sometimes they are hard to locate, that is frustrating sometimes when you want to find a particular quote you know you've read, but can't locate it. I believe Yogananda's teachings should also come in electronic pdf format, with features which allow us to find any word or sentence much easier. But that would not be as profitable, I suppose. I would have such e-paper as backup to my regular books. This is very unlikely to happen, considering today when CD's are already being replaced by mp3's, until very recently Yogananda's talks were only available on cassette (I don't even own a cassette player anymore! so I can't listen to his audio lectures unless I get the old radio that sits in the garage!) SRF publication really does take their sweet time, having already all of Master's words in their hands. Also, regarding my hong-sau experimentation, last night I tried to do an all nighter for the first time. I have to say I feel tired; I've found we (or at least I) need to spend some time in the subconscious state. The threshold for me is about 2-3 hours max of practicing the concentration technique, with at least another 4-5 hours of sleep to feel as refreshed as I can be. That's just what I've found out about myself, I would guess everyone is different and would have to experiment on their own what is optimal for them. Edited by: redpurusha at: 4/15/04 6:55 am
ranger20 (4/15/04 7:52 am) Reply	Re: Damaged People in SRF He answers a devotee's question of how can one become a master besides kriya, by saying the only other way is to contentrate on the Christ center (ie concentration technique of hong-sau). This is also from memory. I have these exact quotes but sometimes they are hard to locate I remember reading ths exchange, and it also has been a while, but I think a key thing is, he did not say the only other way. I think he was asked "Is there another way?" and he answered "Yes..." After all, he even acknowleges that the "bullock cart method of theology and prayer" works eventually.
SsSsSnake (4/15/04 8:35 am) Reply	Re: Damaged People in SRF I also found Hong sau to be amazing at putting one into the breathless state and feelings of electric shocks.more so than Kriya

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