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etzchaim Registered User (1/24/04 10:33 am) Reply	Ugiz... "For some reason I find chela/nagchampa charming and interesting. I must be missing some buttons (that she pushes in others). Kolorado, what a great piece of prose when you wrote:..." Yer such a peace-maker... Some of us just like a good argument, because if the argument goes well, it helps people to see a deeper level of what we are calling "truth", though I think that most of what any of us view as "truth" is quite subjective, more or less, including myself. Ultimately we'll get to what really is 'Truth', but when we get there, the necessary, getting to the bottom of things, arguments, will cease. A good argument is when everyone wins in the end, a bad argument is where everyone loses in the end. Rarely is anything purely good or bad, but most things, I would even venture to say that 99 percent of things, are a mixture . Etz is an Aries, sometimes a good one, and sometimes a bad one. Edited by: etzchaim at: 1/24/04 10:36 am
nagchampa2 Registered User (1/24/04 10:39 am) Reply	Re: Stepping Up to the Plate kolorado, The fact is, you are in another group and do not know what SRF members are going through, nor do you know the facts about Yogananda. You said, If he lied you could understand a devotee leaving him. (Not your exact quotes).I would suggest you go back and read all my posts carefully. Edited by: nagchampa2 at: 2/2/04 8:10 am
kolorado22 Registered User (1/24/04 10:45 am) Reply	Re: replies to many Nagchampa/Chela: I don't care what alias you use and I wasn't calling you cruel. I never met PY in this life in the flesh and I have very many doubts about MC and SRF. For all I know PY could have been an ego maniac and could have been dishonest with his powers. I have no way of substantiating or unsubstantiating these rumors or facts as you call them. Not that I care one way or the other. But everyone in SRF has heard them if they were listening and now they will get them from this board in a nice neat package. Nothing wrong with that at all. I follow PY and practise his techniques because he speaks to my heart. He leads me within to worlds inside of myself beautiful and powerful beyond any earthly description. There I find inner peace. If PY turns into a dark entity some day in my inner soul's eye I suppose I will look for another teacher (anything could happen). But once you find Prana, the life force, God, grace or whatever you want to call it, no one can take it from you unless you give it willingly. If on my deathbed an angel comes to me from the "Intergalactic Guru Monitoring Service" and tells me to give up Kriya and give back my inner peace because PY cheated on his vows I suppose I will literally die laughing. kolorado
kolorado22 Registered User (1/24/04 10:57 am) Reply	Re: Stepping Up to the Plate Nagchampa: I have been in SRF since 1976. I live near the Encinitas Temple but I only attend occasionally. kolorado
nagchampa2 Registered User (1/24/04 11:23 am) Reply	Re: replies to many kolorado, SRF has told the devotees to not read this board. Someone who went to Convocation said in one of the lectures, SRF said to not listen to anything negative about the organization. I, too, went to Encinitas Temple for a number of years. I have made a post at the beginning of this thread, telling people to not read this thread because it was against Yogananda. If SRF devotees come to this board, then they are not listening to Yogananda, who also would not allow anyone to say anything negative around him, and who also said to not listen to anything negative. If they come here, then it must be their karma, which is what SRF always told me when I told them that I had listened to what Donald Walters was saying. And I quote them: "It is your karma." Which seemed rather harsh to me at the time. If someone is happy on their path, then I will not say anything to them about what I know. I have a friend in Siddha Yoga who doesn't believe that Muktananda did anything, and she won't even read the Internet web site, Leaving Siddhi. I never put Muktananda down to her. Many on this board are not just unhappy with SRF but are questioning Yogananda. In the past I would post something either about SRF and later Yogananda, feel guilty and delete it all. Then people would be angry with me for doing so and write me e-mails. Lately, it has not been angry e-mails, but people wanting to know what it is that I know. Some things I have been told in private and can't reveal. But there is enough other things that I have learned from others that bother me deeply. I personally feel that there should be a way on Walrus to have certain subjects, like Yogananda put elsewhere with a warning and I have always said this to Walrus--over and over, but they didn't listen, so I did it myself, as did Yellowbeard. If you love Yogananda, you really don't need to be reading this thread. In the long run it begins putting doubts in your mind that you don't need. It doesn't matter if you consider yourself to be strong or not. I had such great love for Yogananda that when I first learning of the editing and how SRF treated Kamala, Ma Durga, and Mother Hamilton, my heart was crushed. For over a year it felt as if there was a weight on my chest. Then I heard about things in regards to him, and I went into denial for about two years. So, it is good that you don't care, so please take care of that in you. It is obvious that the teachings for for you. Protect them in your heart. No one is immune, no matter how much you have progressed on the path. Keep him in your heart of hearts, but more so, love God above all.
etzchaim Registered User (1/24/04 12:33 pm) Reply	Re: replies to many Nagchampa says: "SRF has told the devotees to not read this board. Someone who went to Convocation said in one of the lectures, SRF said to not listen to anything negative about the organization." And I say: "That's precisely why hammering out the issues with people who are different from you, even if it's on the dreaded Walrus and only the 'rebels' will read it". I personally have benefitted greatly from Kriya which was brought here by Yogananda. I'm reading (finally!) parts of the Lessons, and finding that Yoganda presented his teaching very clearly, if a little sternly and almost TOO systematically. He 'asigns' a prayer to say, rather than suggesting a few and saying "find a way to enter a state of mind to begin meditation and Kriya". The lack of having a personal teacher, and the focus on the Teacher and not the teachings, in a balanced way, of course, would indeed produce a feeling of rigidity. Perhaps it would even lead to a fundamentalist version of "Yoganada's version of Kriya" like we have today in SRF, where they feel they can "order" people not to go on the internet and have a look at people questioning what's going on with the organization, and the teachings it is disseminating, in the way it is disseminating them. We do not even know what Yogananda really wrote. I think that is an big issue. That is not to say that I do not also think that Yogananda should have given more credit to Dhirananda. One of Yogananda's issues appears to have been to assume the central position. This is a classic ego issue. I do not get the sense that this battle between two ambitious, but not malicious men, indicates that everything Yogananda did was wrong. I'm getting a good amount out of his teachings as they trickle into me via the Walrus, but I also do not agree with him on many things. I feel the same way about my Guru, but somehow I know he is my Guru and Yogananda isn't. Instant recognition in 1984, of all years! He's my big brother! (fodder, for YB). The lessons, as I read them, are powerfully 'spoken', but too rigid. If I tried to follow these, I would not be expressing who I am as a soul trying to return to God, or be a manifestation of God. I would be following Yogananda's limited 'suggestions' of the 'shape' and 'color' that my practice takes on, and perhaps not something the 'fits' me or that I don't really respond to. I don't think the techniques should be changed greatly, and there is an internal logic that they have that reveals itself as you do them, so only certain 'evolutionary' or 'recovery' ideas actually fit right. There is the 'core' of the Kriya techniques and then there is the remainder of the sadhana, like prayers and meditation and self-introspection or what have you. I admit that I prefer the way I was taught as an introduction and attuning to the Chakras (the affect of SRF's second initiation) and find it more useful. I'd rather use the tattwa symbols and visualize then 'try to hear' and rub my eyes. The Tattwa system of mental Kriya is less inductive of Astral sounds and more concerned with just creating that 'groove' in the Astral body that Kriya can ideally follow - down the center, both front and back and internally and externally. It's stripped down and less subjective. My sense, with the additional information I can figure out about what other groups practicing Lahiri's Kriya are doing for the initiations (I 'infer' quite a bit, I admit), this seems to be where Yogananda is experimenting. I saw somewhere outside of the Walrus SRF's discussing the colors of the Chakras, and their list of colors going up from the base chakra was the same as the one I have. From this I can say that our tattwa system, the colors, at least, came from Yogananda. I think Yogananda made a mistake in thinking that 'solidifying' the teachings in the way that he did without splitting up his 'kingdom' or organization and appointing Gurus to teach the teachings to the younger or newer people through their own understanding, all of them assisting each other in trying to understand what "Kriya" is. I think Yogananda experimented, but neglected to say what was the 'core' of the Kriya, and what what his suggestion for his disciples sadhana and therefore could be adjusted, left out and replaced or kept because it was a jewel by your own estimation. I also do not think that sex should be cut out of a persons life, and that it's a great tool for spiritual work, so I disagree with Yogananda's teachings on that. Whether or not he was staying with the woman platonically to save money, or whether they were gettin' it on doesn't seem to have a great affect on me, and suggestions that Yogananda was 'shagging', as one might say, the young girls of MC just doesn't sound like what I can 'gleem' of the Historical Yogananda. I think the argument we are having is a good one! Gam zu l'tova - 'It's all for the good', in Yiddish Hebrew. Edited by: etzchaim at: 1/24/04 12:57 pm
kolorado22 Registered User (1/24/04 3:00 pm) Reply	Re: replies to many To nagchampa: Do I sound like the type of person that would stay off the board because SRF asked me to? I hold no position there, I couldn't care less what they think. I happen to be a Jew who believes in the divinity of Jesus and St. Francis so you can see the regard I have for authority. There is no such thing as an organization that keeps the teachings of a saint pure. Look at the Catholic Priests. Organization can only taint the teachings, that is the way of the world. As for Muktananda, I met him in person like I have Daya Ma and nobody can say anything here that would make me doubt he was a saint at the time I met him. Same with Daya Ma. Whether each of them later fell into darkness I don't know. Like I said anything is possible. Fire away, spread as many "facts" as you can, if that is your pleasure. But don't con yourself into thinking you do it just for others. They would find out anyway, just as we did 20 years ago when there was no internet. Just make sure you question these facts and their sources as harshly as you have questioned your guru. kolorado
nagchampa2 Registered User (1/24/04 3:15 pm) Reply	Re: replies to many to kolorado, "Just make sure you question these facts and their sources as harshly as you have questioned your guru". I have questioned very harshly, and I have asked for proof, and I got proof from those who were telling me these things, because I demanded it from them. As a friend said to me today: "Most of these people do not want to know the truth. The more you tell them, the more they will attack you. They like illusion, and do not want its comfort removed". Edited by: nagchampa2 at: 1/24/04 3:17 pm
redpurusha Registered User (1/24/04 4:14 pm) Reply	Re: Stepping Up to the Plate It appears chela has succumbed to abusing his newly found siddhi of acquiring and working through two seperate bodies (chela and nagchampa)? Yb wrote, "Kriya is associated with a lot of corrupt groups. A notable example is the "Solar Logos" Kriya cult that was started by a Yogananda direct disciple. These people are actually waiting for UFOs to come pick them up and deliver them to Salvation." Since when is believing in lifeforms beyond our planet earth equate with waiting on your front porch waiting to be picked up by UFO's in order to be delivered to salvation? I've read Norman Paulson's book and some of their other material, no where have I read anything to support this statement. There is evidence presented for life on other planets, among many other things, with self-discovery the main objective. "The great Light of the pure Self within is there now and it always has been. Meditation, as taught by The Solar Logos Foundation can take you as far as you want to go but you must be sincere and willing to make the effort." -Christ Consciousness, p470
Borg108 Registered User (1/24/04 4:44 pm) Reply	Re: A few final thoughts... Truth is what many of us came to Walrus for. But presenting unsubstantiated opinions and outright falsehoods as truth is offensive and irresponsible. Let's look more closely at a few of nag/chela's statements and see wherein the truth lies. She stated that Yogananda said God told him to build the first Encinitas temple. When I asked her to substantiate this remark, she never responded, then deleted this statement from her post. Does she have to be challenged in order to be honest? Then nag/chela says Yogananda plagarized Dhirananda's writings. The Science of Religion book in question was a written version of the speech Yogananda (and only Yogananda) came over here to deliver to the Congress of Religions in 1920. The fact that his english at the time was poor and so had Dhirananda as a co-author or ghost writer is certainly a lot different from plagarism. As for Dhirananda's legal judgement against Yogananda. I think this says more about Dhirananda than it ever does about Yogananda. It shows that Dhirananda was trying to use spiritual books and teachings in order to personally enrich himself. Nag/chela then quotes the Bible (which she says she doesn't believe in): "If what a prophet says does not come true, then he is a false prophet." Then she says that Yogananda made many predictions that didn't come true. What are these predictions? When were they suppossed to happen? Why is she silent now on this point? I have the booklet of predictions she referred to and not a single one of them has a date associated with it. Then there is the sadhu mantra. When Sri Yukteswar initiated Yogananda he said that swami initiation could be done in the ceremonial manner (with mantras, river baptism, etc.), or in the non-ceremonial manner. It was Sri Yukteswar who chose the non-ceremonial manner. Nag/chela says that Yogananda was asked to drop the swami title because he didn't know this mantra. I'd like to know who asked him to drop this title and what evidence there is of it. Not that it really matters. One becomes a swami only by receiving sannyas diksha from another swami. Once that is done, one always remains a swami unless it is voluntarily relinquished. I'd also like to know on what authority nag/chela has it that Sri Yukteswar admonished Yogananda on several occasions to not display his siddhis. All we've been given so far is nag/chela's say so. Furthermore, I'd like to know where nag/chela got the idea behind her statement "how dangerous it is for even us to be learning the siddhis that he [Yogananda] is teaching in his lessons." I've been through all the lessons a number of times and have never seen any siddhi instructions. Anyone familiar with the lessons know that they point out that one should not be seeking spiritual powers, but only union with God and the love of God. The unsubstantiated sexual allegations against Yogananda have been discussed many times before, so I won't go into them except to say that there has never been any proof of them. But those who want to think the worst can always do so. Finally, nag/chela has made a very big thing of Yogananda's demonstration of siddhis. She has never addressed the issue of the demonstration of siddhis by saints throughout the ages except to say that it's OK if they were being used to serve or heal others. Why this condition on them? Most saints can heal, serve or help others in secret without the demonstration of powers. And isn't inspiring them toward God a way of serving them? As etzheim pointed out, Christ didn't have to walk on water in order to save his disciples from drowning. He could have calmed the storm or protected them from it. Was Christ an evil "wizard or necromancer" because he demonstrated his powers? Were all the other saints through the ages who God chose to have display powers misguided and wrong? Or might there be more to it, such as to inspire faith and help others see that those who seek and find God can transcend the limitations of this earth plane? One final thing to consider. Unless one thinks the AY and Mejda are fiction (nag/chela may), there is ample evidence in them that Babaji, Lahiri Mahasaya, and Sri Yukteswar all chose Yogananda to spread the message of kriya yoga in the West. Do you think they would have chosen a charlatan for this important task? These gurus all displayed siddhis from time to time, so maybe they were false prophets as well, if you buy into nag/chela's arguments. I'd also like to add that I think it's important for new readers to realize that the focus of Walrus has changed from predominantly SRF issues to questions regarding Yogananda's character and his teachings. Those who want to explore the SRF issues should focus on postings prior to late 2003. I've added a posting under Purpose of Board to help make this clear. The link is as follows: pub78.ezboard.com/fsrfwal...=113.topic Borg Edited by: Borg108 at: 1/24/04 10:47 pm
nagchampa2 Registered User (1/24/04 5:40 pm) Reply	Re: A few final thoughts... Borg, The temple falling into the ocean. It was in the L.A. newspaper. I deleted my messages back then because I felt guilty for posting things about Yogananda that would upset his devotees. Since then people wanted me to do so and to not delete. I also said that this issue was not really all that important. It was you who were using the Bible to support Yogananda, and I just said that you can use just as many scriptures to take away that support, and so I supplied them. but no, I don't believe in the Bible. It can be used to support whatever belief you desire. I really don't care one way or another whether Yogananda's predictions came true or not. That was never a big issue with me, outside of it being a siddhi, but since you have the book of his predictions, why not post them here? Ananda had them and just said that they quit publishing the book because they had not come true when he claimed they would. I have not seen the book, just saw it was on sale on eBay, but I was not able to bid at the right time to own the book, so I went to Ananda, who had once published it. I would not come here and print things I believed to be falsehoods. I had to make sure of the things that I was learning to even believe them myself, and I am very hard to convince. It took me three years of trying to find the truth about Yogananda, and it was hard for people to convince me. I had to see the proof. I had heard the issue of his losing his title from two different people who had been in SRF or had been associated with SRF in some way during those years. I know these people's backgrounds and know that they are not lying. How many people it took to tell me this before I would even listen, until one person that I knew was totally honest told me. Other than that, I can go no further with this subject because I was taken into confidence as to the other issues surrounding this, so I told what I could safely say without betraying a confidence. In Yogananda's lessons he teaches us how to read minds. That is a siddhi. Perhaps, YB can find that lesson and quote it here. I no longer have my lessons. Yogananda did say to not use spiritual powers, but at the same time he taught them in the lessons. I found that rather strange and contradictive. If you go over all my posts on this thread, you will find that I quote many Hindu scriptures that say that you should not use siddhis and why, as well as some websites. Siddhis are to be used only to help a devotee--to heal or to protect them from harm or to help them in a meaningful way. I don't think that they chose a charlatan to come to America, I think he changed after arriving here. Too much temptation. Maybe all the while that he was calling his colleagues "Judas'" he was projecting. Edited by: nagchampa2 at: 2/2/04 8:20 am
YellowBeard420 Slow Down (1/25/04 1:56 am) Reply	We're Not Gonna Take It Subtle perceptions become apparent to Borg [Yogananda assimilation drone 1 of 8] during his Kriya practice. The scent of salt water, and then the oceanic sounds of salt water sloshing upon itself ... the sound of a seagull ... minutes later the sound of creaking wood of a large wooden vessel. Vast sails ruffling in wind become visible through the fog. A large ship spotted with cannons along its outer hauls is upon you. A stout man comes into view glaring intently at you with a long unkempt yellow beard! "Prepare to defend yourself, for your Yogananda assimilation vessel is about to be boarded!", exclaims YellowBeard. --------- > Borg108 scribbles: "Truth is what many of us came to Walrus for." Really? You seem awfully bent on having people silenced. That's an interesting way to approach truth. I call it protecting illusions. > Borg108: "presenting unsubstantiated opinions and outright falsehoods as truth is offensive and irresponsible." I agree. That's why I don't like Autobiography of a Yogi. > Borg108: "I am opposed to hypocrisy and deceit wherever I see it" Great, sounds like you're ready to renounce your codependent submission to Yogananda. And maybe you can start your new life by being a real man and not running to the Walrus because you can't handle this discussion. If you can't handle the heat here, you gotta get out of the kitchen. There's plenty of other rooms here for you to play with your Mata Barbie dolls in. > Borg108: "It is said by SRF that one of the reasons Rajasi advanced as quickly as he did was because he had siddhis but never used them." It's because he had money and never used it. Instead he gave it all to SRF. > Borg108: "Please think more about what brought about your turning on Yogananda and his teachings." Please think on why you want to assimilate everyone into Yogananda. I know it's lonely, dark, constrained and reeks in there, and misery loves company. But you should think carefully before trying to suck people into that black-hole that you've chosen for yourself. > Borg108: "the focus of Walrus has changed from predominantly SRF issues to questions regarding Yogananda's character and his teachings. Those who want to explore the SRF issues should focus on postings prior to late 2003." This is one thread guy. Your intolerance makes me sick, and I can hear a song in the distance becoming louder in dedication to you ... ------- Oh you're so condescending Your gall is never ending We don't want nothin', not a thing from you Your life is trite and jaded Boring and confiscated If that's your best, your best won't do We're right, yeah We're free, yeah We'll fight, yeah You'll see, yeah We're not gonna take it No, we ain't gonna take it We're not gonna take it anymore -- Twisted Sister --------
YellowBeard420 Slow Down (1/25/04 4:50 am) Reply	Say Hello to Reality > Dawnrays (1/18/04): "I am assuming that (once again) you are either speculating or making something up as you have done in the past. What reason is there to take you or your stance seriously, at this point? ... Has anybody else heard of the incident in question? This would be 'somebody' walking into srf Headquarters in Mount Washington to 'shoot' a portrait of Master?" Finally found the article from which this information is from. Those who don't believe this can take it up with Ron Russell, the author. ----------- Excerpt from "Return of the Swami", Los Angeles New Times/July 1, 1999. For the full article see: www.rickross.com/referenc...real2.html Inside the former hotel that is the SRF's main administration building, the upholstered low-back chair from which Yogananda taught in the chapel is enclosed in Plexiglas, as are other artifacts. The SRF apparently takes no chances, especially after a crazed gunman walked in the chapel several years ago and shot up a picture of the guru that had been hanging above the podium. ----------- Here's an excerpt on Dhirananda since he's been in discussion here: "Basu Kumar Bagchi (the aforementioned Swami Dhirananda) was a close friend of Yogananda's in India as a young man who joined him in this country in 1922 and was placed in charge of the Mount Washington property the first three years after Yogananda acquired it. He is also said by some to have written several early works, in whole or in part, that were later attributed to Yogananda, although the latter's devotees hotly dispute this. But in the spring of 1929 he split with Yogananda and forced him to sign a promissory note for $8,000 that he contended was due him as part of a partnership the men had entered to promote Yogananda's enterprises. ...In fact, that's what repulsed him about his dear friend Yogananda. The impression he left with us was that Yogananda was screwing everything in sight ... Nerode essentially accused Yogananda of running a harem, describing how the swami had young girls housed next to his room on the third floor of the former hotel, and how they went in and out of the swami's room at all hours, while older women were housed on a separate floor entirely." -- "The Devotee's Son", New Times L.A., July 5, 2001, Ron Russell www.rickross.com/referenc...real3.html ---------- I have some new breaking information, I need to still relocate the article to back it up. Yogananda did a trick for skeptics where he would make his pulse rate different for each arm while the skeptic would have fingers on each wrist. This little scam which was suppose to prove that he was a godman is a trick many gurus have used. I have the details on how he did this. Thanks to Punk Yogi for making me aware of an article he wrote on Guru Busters: pub78.ezboard.com/fsrfwal...ID=7.topic This lead me to look into the work of groups that work to expose the scams that gurus dazzle audiences with as "siddhis", signs of their supernatural status. Here's how gurus (like Yogananda) did the pulse trick: ---------- a) Short time death, stopping heart beat : One can stop heart beat by breathing air inside fully and trying to exhale the air without exhaling. What generally done by god-men is only to stop pulse at the wrist. This is done by stopping the flow of blood to the hands by keeping a lemon, or a small ball or a rolled hand kerchief in the arm pits and pressing. Doctors do not in the confusion check the heart beat but check the pulse and confirm that the pulse is stopped. The god-men show this trick to make people believe that by practising yoga and pranayama a person can stop the breath and heart beats and still be alive. This is to prove to the people that they are above normal human beings. groups.yahoo.com/group/mu...ssage/5561 --------- All I need to do now is relocate the article that spoke on him doing this pulse trick. If someone would assist me in this, that would be helpful. This is just the beginning of exposing Yogananda. But the 'Yogananda zombie elves' will continue to believe in the divine stature of their guru because they can't deal with reality as it is. Just like Sai Baba devotees refuse to face the facts that have been rolling out on him for years, for example, "the godman regularly kissed and fondled him, tried to rape him and successfully silenced him. He used to "produce" holy oil out of thin air and to rub the boy�s genitals with that. And he produced watches, golden rings and money to keep him silent." (from Punk's article) Exposing Yogananda's pulse trick is just the beginning. He shagged every female devotee he could get his hands on. I'm goin' dig. People are goin' talk. And you're going to hear about it. Say goodbye to your guru ... YellowBeard waves bye-bye. Say hello to reality, it aint that bad folks. Deal with it!
nagchampa2 Registered User (1/25/04 5:13 am) Reply	Re: Say Hello to Reality I found one of Yogananda's predictions that did not come true: "Paramahansa Yogananda once foretold that by 2000 USA and India would lead the world. It was not a hit". I found another group's view on Walrus: "Many of them have grumbled against the current leaders of Yogananda's church or organisation, and you may also detect "impressionistic blaming" among the postings. The Walrus is not the greatest problem. Most of those who post on the Walrus board and don't get banned, are allowed to blame the SRF management for this and that, maybe with fears. That is, on the Walrus board you may have to suffer through such stuff for hours; there is a lot of it. The "trick" of the Walrus editors is that blaming Yogananda and the gurus may be harshly prohibited, even though the real villain that set up major problems, apparently was Yogananda. I feel the problem begins and ends with Yogananda. It's like leaving the Manson Family cult while still holding onto the view that Charles Manson is your holy savior. You gotta drop Charley as well if you want to truly move on . . . ["YellowBeard"] But the Walrus editors have blinded their eyes in this respect, and "loyally" ban postings that show how true it is that Yogananda is also to blame. Through a sense of "guru loyalty" - or some degree of cowardice? - they do not admit criticism of gurus, even though Yogananda himself surely has welcomed it. Quote: "Our best friends are those who criticise us the most, who never condone our faults" and so on. He goes on to say he would rather be corrected than continue in transgressions. The mentally paralysed disciple fails in helping his guru here. Also, the "banning business" of the Walrus editor and the Walrus champions may take off to unhealthy heights. Someone who wrote us, told the SRF Walrus had banned him for citing the author George Orwell (!). It may suggest much intolerance in the Yogananda disciple that runs the board - and his or her associates. And what did you expect among those who willingly submitted to a guru with "ten thousand do's and don'ts" in the first place, if "Like attracts like", if "birds of a feather flock together" and all that? Another comment: among ten postings on the board, just one might be of value, and harshness or nastiness marred or destroyed much on the board. Granted such things, members of the Walrus discussion boards can be pitied. Grumbling and negative or not, they are hardly the real problem, all in all. Some really seemed to have got their hearts ripped out when they saw their faith in Yogananda looked unfounded. And such contributors have been banned from the board, and I doubt whether they have got any help at all. Ignoring many greater problems for having some low-level grumbles is a part of the Walrus Thing, it seems to me. Having accessed the board for some time and taking notes too, this is my subjective impressions so far, if the Walrus has not improved throughout the last year: They exclude others - Point: 3 (maybe) They take to dispensing methods - Point: 3 (maybe) They take to reductionist thinking and such language to accomplish one or more general aims - Point: 4 They function in step with separating members from those outside - Point: 5 They bring ideological totalism to members and use reinforcements that shame some of those who don't conform enough - Point: 3 There is avoidance tactics and/or simplistic thinking used for furthering mind-control as needed - Point: 5 Sum: "Dirtier" than needed, maybe. (Score: 23. Average is 18, maximum is 30.) However, "If every man would sweep before his own door, the city would soon be clean." (Proverb) Another way of approaching that board is through heuristics or qualitative designs. By small talk and interviews with participants we may detect some factors that "run the game" and new ones may pop up. For example, a suspicion may rise that an inner core of "watchdogs" can have been at work to censure postings without enough good reason, just to bulwark their favoured opinions on this and that. Some have sensed that the discussion board is not quite as good and well-behaved as it would have us believe. For all that, some postings may be of great value too. THE RULE OF THE "GAME" could very well be: They talk down on Yogananda's emissaries (monastics in charge of SRF, but do not behave so very well themselves. And that is a problem that "never boded England good". I came to realize that my "showdown" was not because I posted too much, because Eztchaim posts a lot. My "showdown" is because of the content of my messages. I asked someone who knew Yogananda about the "flashing of light" coming from Yogananda's hands that he displayed to audiences. This is what this person wrote to me: "Not likely. He was perfectly capable of using a flashlight. He was full of magician's tricks. You should have seen the performances of his spiritualist friends in LA. We went to one where everyone held hands, lights out, and horns, pencils, etc floated in the air in the semi darkness. I was small crept under the table, behind the screen, and watched the person doing the performance, who did not see me. I was young enough to think this was a performance and thought nothing of it. That is the sort of thing we were surrounded by in LA!" Yellowbeard, Very good observations on your post. The $8,000 was what was to be paid to Swami Dhirananda, who was a real swami, and Yogananda had paid $100.00 of it, leaving $7,900. When Yogananda tried to get back into the U.S., I was told that he was detained at Ellis Island, not being allowed to enter until he paid. Swami Dhirananda's lawyer was then given half the amount, and Yogananda was allowed to enter the States; the rest was never paid. Edited by: nagchampa2 at: 2/2/04 8:25 am
kolorado22 Registered User (1/25/04 6:21 am) Reply	Re: Stepping Up to the Plate Chela/Nag YB posts because he enjoys making fun of devotees and likes to argue. That's what message boards are for: gathering information, weighing it, and arguing about it. You however have a deep psychological problem that posting on message boards is not going to cure. You said: >Thank you for caring, but I am not suffering from what I learned abuot Yogananda anymore. I am infuriated by what he has done, but I have more concern for those who are here on this board who want to know the truth< Reading your posts I beg to differ. You seem to be all consumed with hate toward PY. That is a natural reaction when trying to disentangle from a guru. It is devastating and you will not heal easily. As Sheryl Crow sings, "The first cut is the deepest". Do yourself a favor, get some help from your friends, buy some CDs, take a vacation, change jobs, find a lover, go back to school, but don't waste your time reliving your pain here, it is horrible to watch and you don't seem to be getting any better. kolorado
chela2020 Slow Down (1/25/04 7:34 am) Reply	Re: Stepping Up to the Plate kolorado, You will stoop at anything to get me off the board. I am just sitting here watching you and Borg in your efforts to get me off the board, and then I wonder what you will both try next? I feel like an observer. (Also, as I am adding this: When I talked with a brother at Encinitas Temple, not Ramananda, who told me to stop by and say hello, but another one, he said of SRF Walrus, "They all have emotional problems." That is how low they stoop to get people to not look on Walrus, and now, kolorado, you are among those of us with emotional problems because you are here.) I don't hate PY. He is a fallen guru, he will come back, and he will get it right. I felt infuriated with how he tried to use a siddhi on someone whom I love dearly, a very holy man, but that person was able to stop him and then tossed him out. Still, it infuriated me to think that he would stoop so low. It bothers me that people are suffering from doubts that they have about him, but you and Borg want to stop them from knowing the truth. To me, that just doesn't seem right. Now that is fundamentalism. You probably both burned me at the stake in a past life, calling me a witch or a heretic. Edited by: chela2020 at: 1/25/04 8:21 am
A voice in the supermarket Registered User (1/25/04 8:15 am) Reply	Re: Stepping Up to the Plate Hi kolorado, Are you a medical doctor since you prescribe this and that for others so freely without even having been asked for it? Or just an annoying know-all who does what he/she can to down or degrade others you disagree with? Start asking "What is the matter with myself?" I think that could have a beneficent effect - in time. Some walk in distress because of guru teachings. That should be recognized. And when some of those in distress strive to clarify thoughts and feelings, we must not expect every word and phrase to be weighted on a gold weight for us to hear them. Very basically, we should be reluctant to assert that others have such and such feelings from what they have written, IF THEY DON'T THINK OR SAY SO THEMSELVES. And we should be straight enough to refrain from quack-prescribing CURES that down others too. It is bad. Since writings don't always communicate or show feelings too well, we have to adjust better - have such modesty, or clean dealings, if you like. why not polite and fair? Cheerio, Voice --------------------------------- VARIOUS KOLORADO INSULTS IN ONE SINGLE LETTER "YB posts because he enjoys making fun of devotees and likes to argue. . . . You however have a deep psychological problem that posting on message boards is not going to cure." "You seem to be all consumed with hate toward PY. . . . Do yourself a favor, get some help" Aren't we more condescending that we ought to be? Impressions differ. Why do you consider your OPINIONS to have reached the core? "take a vacation, change jobs, find a lover, go back to school,"
A voice in the supermarket Registered User (1/25/04 8:25 am) Reply	Re: Say Hello to Reality Hi, I would like to share a few words by the Buddha. Yogananda considers the Buddha an avatar. Buddha said: Do not believe something just because it has been passed along and retold for many generations. Do not believe something merely because it has become a traditional practice. Do not believe something simply because it is well-known everywhere. Do not believe something just because it is cited in a text. Do not believe something solely on the grounds of logical reasoning. Do not believe something merely because it accords with your philosophy. Do not believe something because it appeals to "common sense." Do not believe something just because you like the idea. Do not believe something because the speaker seems trustworthy. Do not believe something thinking, "This is what our teacher says". When you yourselves know, "This is unwholesome, this is blameworthy, this is censured by the wise, these things when accepted and practiced lead to harm and suffering," then you should give them up. - From the Kesamutti Sutta What do you think? Voice Edited by: A voice in the supermarket at: 1/26/04 1:17 pm
nagchampa2 Registered User (1/25/04 8:35 am) Reply	Re: Stepping Up to the Plate Welcome back Voice, It appears that the more Borg and Kolorado ask for proof and the more I give, the more I am told that I have problems. I find that amusing. So the devil sign, which is also Walrus' emblem. I walked in distress many years over SRF and the things they were telling me, such as, you are disloyal to Yogananda by questioning us, by reading, mind you, his original writings of all things, by talking to Donald Walters, by having a friend in Ananda, and by reading other religious books. Then I began questioning Yogananda, which was a bigger NO, NO. I spent three years trying to learn things about him. I wanted to know the truth, so I could be free of my doubts one way or another. I would have much rather he were proven to be a true guru, and so for a long time, I just shoved under the rug things that I heard that was negative about him. In the last three months I learned what I needed to know, and I had to almost beg the right people to tell me, and after that it seemed like others came forward with the same information, and then it dawned on me that Nerode was telliing me the truth about him. If you all could only know the peace of mind that I now have from just knowing the truth. It allowed me to move on, and that is all I want for others who are suffering in this delusion. I remember when I was kicked out of the Jehovah's Witnesses, I had nowhere to turn. I couldn't talk to those who were also kicked out, because it was a secret as to who was. I was shunned by them, which is the reason I could not find anyone to talk with. Now they have their own support group on Ezboard. I wish I could have helped those who were also kicked out and shunned, but I couldn't. Now, I can offer what little help I have to those who are hurt by SRF and by Yogananda's teachings. If it is bad karma to do so, then that is okay, because I don't care how many years it takes me to reach Self-realization. In fact, I would rather come back and help others as often as needed, but hopefully, it will be in a different way, hopefully, I will have better tools to work with.
etzchaim Registered User (1/25/04 10:42 am) Reply	Re: Stepping Up to the Plate I think all of us, everyone of us, including all those who are opposed to us, and all those who agree with us, and those who only agree with some of us, or none of us, would do well to follow the advice of the Buddha. And introspect, introspect, introspect. Examine our motives, our attachments, our biases, and our hates. Etz, liking everyone here...

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