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SRF Walrus > Core Issues > Why do we need Monastics?
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dawnrays Registered User (5/19/03 10:40 am) Reply	Why do we need Monastics? Excuse me, but it seems like the general drift from this board (and from my own experience) just leads to this question. Why do we need monastics? It seems they don't really serve any purpose other than to hide and spend our money, distract us from our sadhanas, monopolize attention and create a cultish atmosphere in the temples. They also attempt to manipulate and control aspects of peoples lives (which they don't understand, because they live in an ashram), give irrelevant lectures (on life in the ashram), bad and irrelevant counsel and advice (because they live in an ASHRAM), not to mention, keeping secrets. Plus, guess what? The whole set-up is rather expensive and there are plenty of people in srf who live like monks and nuns (that is do their sadhanas, abstain, are vegetarians and practice the presence). They are more inspirational to me because they are working and living in the world, coming up against temptations and interacting with people other than adoring devotees who hang on their every syllable (at least for a while) until they WAKE UP and smell the chai tea. Don't get me wrong, I think most people who enter to ashram are sincere seekers. I almost became a Catholic nun myself when I was younger (but as I reexamined my motives; fear of the world, a desire to be safe, guilt, I discovered that they weren't all that spiritual). I feel bad for the ones who ended up feeling trapped and used. I also feel bad for the ones who are obviously into some pretty heavy and self-centered dellusional thinking (they have arrived). I'm just wondering what is with this whole set up? Is just a Kali yuga thing we just need to get past and get on with our lives or what? Do you really need walls and monastaries to be good or find God ? What's that saying for the rest of us, are we bad, corrupt and necessary to avoid? It seems that's the general group-think at MC and maybe that's the problem. Also I realize there are "saints" and as well as some very good people in the ashram. But wouldn't they be there anyway? Is the ashram to thank? dawnrays Edited by: dawnrays at: 5/19/03 2:32:30 pm
Borg108 Registered User (5/19/03 12:29 pm) Reply	Re: Why do we need Monastics? dawnrays, Yes, there are a few (very few and not necessarily the usual suspects) saintly persons in the SRF colonies, and they would be like that no matter where they were. There are also some real jerks there, and they would be like that too wherever they might be. And there are lots of people in between who would also be like that wherever they might be. Problems come from thinking that all or most monastics are saints. One SRF brother is fond of telling others that those who leave SRF monastic life no longer love God like those who stay on there. This is nonsense. I've looked into this same situation with the Catholic Church, since SRF is defintely heading in this direction. Catholic monasteries are full of all kinds of people. Some are there because they are misogynistic or malanthropic. Many are there out of fear, or are full of egoistic desire for reward in the hereafter. They tend to be rigid, dogmatic and narrow minded. Yet there is often one wonderful soul (sometimes laboring in humble obscurity) in each monastery who is there for the right reasons, and who has become saintly despite, rather than because of, the Church. SRF is no different than this. Disciplined monastic lifestyle suits some people and helps them progress spiritually. Many of us who leave look back later and see that the lifestyle and devotional mindset were beneficial to us until we were ready to move on. Everyone's karma is different. We all need to be where we can learn the lessons we have come here to learn. So it makes no sense really to criticise anyone else's chosen lifestyle. But when their actions impact others adversely and are adharmic, as are a number of those of SRF monastics, then we can and should speak out against them, as we do here on Walrus. We can also help others see that God and Guru are best approached directly and not through heavily flawed organizations like SRF.
dawnrays Registered User (5/19/03 2:03 pm) Reply	Re: Why do we need Monastics? My only dealings with srf initially were the lessons from the correspondence course and so I had no idea what the organization was like beforehand. I loved the lessons, Master, the books. I remember being rather suprised when I received the "Give Me Thy Heart" literature and first heard about the ashrams. Even more so after I joined a meditation group and one older lady devotee breathlessly asked me, with a confidential smile "If I would be going into the ashram?" I guess I'm just surprised that a free-thinking (to me, despite srf) path would condone, let alone promote such a constrictive life-style (even more so than I ever previously imagined after reading posts from ex-monastics). Mind you, I've never looked at Master, Jesus or St. Francis as monastics. To me they were (yes) celibate, but they went pretty much where the spirit moved them (there is apparently a trail of breadcrumbs putting JC in India, Athens, Tibet and God knows where else) read, spoke openly and chose thier own friends. I do also (being raised Catholic) love such saints as "The Little Flower". I agree with you about the need for more discipline at certain times in our life (I certainly appreciated Master setting some boundaries, it was totally appropriate for me at the time and I drank it in.) Also in the Catholic Church, the monastaries or orders each have a certain role (prayer, teaching, missionary or charity work). The parish priest has the most to do with the householder and even then he has certainly does rule or otherwise micromanage. Our parish priests lived next door to the church, were usually available and were seen as friends and counselors (though we called them "Father"). I did not get the big ego trip from them (we had several due to transfers and visiting priests) that I do from the srf monks and nuns. I also have several relatives in the Catholic Clergy. dawnrays Edited by: dawnrays at: 5/20/03 2:10:29 pm
KS Registered User (5/20/03 6:32 am) Reply	Re: Why do we need Monastics? First of all I object to the use of the term ashram in association with SRF. The ashrams we know from the Autobiography and other Indian literature is not the ashram of SRF. That weird mind control ego based mental institution that is the SRF hotel is not a spiritual ashram in any sense I know. Read on. The Walrus is full of examples. I certainly agree that the monastics are not needed. Master didn’t have an army of monastics when he was alive and running the show. It sends all kinds of wrong messages. Some devotees are better than others, some devotees know more about God than others simply indicated by the fact of where they live, and there is an assumption of a high spiritual state. This is especially a problem for new people who assume monastics are saints and can read their minds and weird stuff like that. Even in your post you assume there are saints in the SRF hotel. Even after reading the Walrus? What kind of saint would stand by and watch the abuse of their fellow devotees and not demand change? Even you have fallen for the AY = SRF = Master formula. There are certainly a few nice people there who are, while helpless and lacking in self esteem, sincere in their own ways. They feel helpless and have survived by going along with the program. Not many good people have survived the mass exodus of the past few years.
dawnrays Registered User (5/20/03 7:40 am) Reply	Re: Why do we need Monastics? Hi KS, It seems like a paradox, but God does sometimes install one or two saints in very dark places, if only because that's where they're needed most. Jesus, St. Francis and Master all incarnated in dark and troubled times. That is not to say that srf as a whole is a beacon shining in the darkness. However, I think that Master's teachings are and it is the sacred duty of we who know this to separate the two for the benefit of ourselves and others. I agree with you on use of the term "ashrams". I have read that Master did not use this term himself; neither did he refer to Mount Washington as "Mother Center". The "Mata" titles also did not originate with Master but were bestowed by daya on herself and some of the direct women disciples after her return from India in '61 or 62. There really aren't that many similiarities between the Catholic monastaries, convents and rectories and srf, either. Most Catholic orders have some kind of a role in the community. The parish priest's full-time job is to look after (not rule) parishioners, like a "good shepherd". Different orders teach, do charity, hospital and mission work. Even the contemplative orders (cloistered nuns and monks) usually have some kind of a job. The cloistered order of nuns I applied to were the "Poor Clare's", the sister order to the Franciscans. They did the church's laundry. Trappist, Franciscan and other monastaries give retreats, farm and make and sell products. srf is in a class all by itself and really does not deserve comparison to the Indian system or the Catholic Church. I also think you are right on the money about the whole thing being very confusing, distracting and misleading for new devotees. dawnrays Edited by: dawnrays at: 5/20/03 1:56:21 pm

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