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SerenityNow7
Registered User
(12/26/03 8:29 am)
Reply 		Re: Benefits of Study?
Hi Yellowbeard, I'm curious what your background is...I probably missed your original posts. Are you an ex-monastic? Were you in SRF a long time? Just curious.

Just had to jump in here briefly to say, "the placebo effect" is the power of the mind which is real. It's amazing to me that medical science has labeled something "placebo" and no one even thinks about it. If someone can pop a sugar pill and have real healing occur something is happening. Even if the power isn't within the object itself, but its ability to trigger the power within the self that it still something to not skip over lightly!!!

stermejo
Registered User
(12/26/03 6:41 pm)
Reply 		Re: Benefits of Study?
"Hi Yellowbeard, I'm curious what your background is..."

I'd been thinking about that myself. YB mentioned that he was previously an atheist. First, this is fine with me. I have no problem with it. In fact, I've always believed that the 2nd chapter of the Gita was Krishna's endorsement of atheism as an approach to higher consciousness.

This got me to thinking that the atheist has issues similar to say a Catholic, Jew, Muslim, certain things that one doesn't touch lest the *thing* dissolves into smoke. A bucket of fish, if you will.

YB using the 3rd person makes this question difficult to write. If I say, "Does YellowBeard have any issues related to his atheism that he needs to dump?" It could be construed that YB himself is asking himself this question or at least posing it rhetorically to himself. But he is not.

I guess that it seems YellowBeard still has an unhealthy dose of skepticism and rationalism. Having extracted himself from the web of PY/SRF (fair enough), he has fallen back on that old time religion that he grew up with.

Sufi SAM once said (and folks you have to turn this over in your head a few times to GET it), "you get more stinkin' from thinkin' than you do from drinkin'." Salvia, good. Kryia, bad. Oooohhh, my head is spinning. I'm taking a vicodine and forgetting the whole thing.

X Insider
Registered User
(12/26/03 11:54 pm)
Reply 		Re:This thread
I have been checking into this board periodically for the last couple of years. I am a former monastic. I spent a good chunk of my life in what I see now as a cult. It is at first pretty embarrassing somehow to admit this. But time heals and it all gets placed more in perspective.

Seems we have a new bout of angry accusations happening. They have happened before, as I recall. Yellowbeard has really set people off. Dawnrays is on the warpath. Whatever.

Yes, YB, Walrus is a loyal Yoganada person. I hope it brings him/her happiness. I am not of the same persuasion. I cannot wrap my mind around SRF having gone so rotten without an initial boost.

I had some wonderful experiences with meditation. Someday I will perhaps understand what it all means. Maybe I will even meditate again some day. Probably not SRF techniques, though. Reminds me of some pretty crazy days so it is not exactly relaxing.

We are all so different. And I hope each of us can feel good about life and about those differences. Somehow.

YellowBeard420
Slow Down
(12/27/03 9:43 am)
Reply
Re: Benefits of Study?
> Serenity wrote: "Are you an ex-monastic? Were you in SRF a long time?"

YellowBeard was a lay disciple and practiced seriously for only about 5 years. He's been referred to as "GreenBeard" because of his short involvement.

> Serenity: "If someone can pop a sugar pill and have real healing occur something is happening. Even if the power isn't within the object itself, but its ability to trigger the power within the self that it still something to not skip over lightly!!!"

No doubt. But no responsible doctor would rely on placebos as actual cures because they are of an unpredictable nature. Sometimes they work, sometimes not. Even if a person has full faith in something, giving them a placebo version usually doesn't work. Try replacing someone's heart medication with placebos that look exactly the same and you're going to have a big surprise, or I should say that they're going to have a big surprise. So the placebo effect is unreliable and really only works occasionally. A doctor that relies on the use of placebos is what we call a "quack". YellowBeard is not saying anything against alternative medicine practices, which that term sometimes gets applied to. YellowBeard has great respect for many alternative approaches and believes that some of these practices are much more healthier ways to deal with many illnesses. A quack doctor can exist in any particular field of medicine including the mainstream approaches. Any doctor that relies on placebos is a quack. My point here is that if a spiritual doctor relies on placebos, that spiritual teacher is a quack.

Stermejo wrote: "YB using the 3rd person makes this question difficult to write. If I say, 'Does YellowBeard have any issues related to his atheism that he needs to dump?' It could be construed that YB himself is asking himself this question or at least posing it rhetorically to himself. But he is not."

YellowBeard is glad you brought this up. This is another reason why he likes to talk in 3rd person. As you have shown, the boundaries between us naturally dissolve when we do not reinforce the illusory divisions between us. The reality of our situation is that there is only one Self talking here. Our personality structures which we like to cling so tightly to are actually just thoughts arising and playing themselves out within the eternal consciousness on the Self. This reality does not require your faith, nor does it even want it.

Self-realization is about perceiving who and what we truly are. The consciousness behind the limitations of our confining personality structures is the Self. And there's only one Self. The perception of separateness is actually just an illusion of perspective. Now if your Kriya Yoga actually worked as promised, you would see this fact of our existence. This is why YellowBeard has such a problem with Kriya and the Teachings. They do not lead to this realization.

> Stermejo: "I guess that it seems YellowBeard still has an unhealthy dose of skepticism and rationalism."

You can never have too much of these things on this path. Only not enough. We're breaking down all our encasings of ideas and belief structures. One never has to worry about accidentally tearing down Truth through this process. It's not something that can be torn down, and obviously it's not Reality if it can be torn down. That's one of the beauties of this approach. There's nothing that one needs to uphold or believe in. There's no errors to easily be entrapped by because one gets rid of everything that the mind holds onto.

> X Insider wrote: "I am a former monastic. I spent a good chunk of my life in what I see now as a cult."

One thing that YellowBeard wants to mention here is that he thoroughly respects all of the ex-monastics (including the Wulrus even though we disagree). YellowBeard realizes that the purpose of this board is largely a place for them to find support after being abandoned by SRF. And YellowBeard does not wish to interfere in this process. It may be important for many to continue to hold onto the ideas of Yogananda for awhile.

YellowBeard's purpose here is merely to find a quiet corner to speak on an alternative approach to recovery after SRF. This approach is to abandon all gurus and religious ideas, but to still remain on the path to the Divine. YellowBeard says that we can all become a Light unto ourselves. After all, we are not meant to be on our knees our whole life. We can stand and walk down this Path with strength on our own two feet. This is YellowBeard's message -- you are not abandoning God if you choose to abandon the guru. You're simply learning to walk on your own which we must all learn in time.

> To borrow a quote from X Insider from another thread: "Find meditation techniques that come free of any kind of involvement in an organization. Retain the sense God gave ya."

YellowBeard agrees with this statement. His problem with Kriya is its associations with the SRF organization and with Yogananda. YellowBeard believes that one's spiritual approach should be free of all these limitations and should be something that feels completely right to them -- something personal, enriching, meaningful and gentle, and not a crude mechanical exercise given by another.

[Edited to correct a typo that may have caused some confusion.]

Edited by: YellowBeard420 at: 12/27/03 9:47 am
soulcircle
Registered User
(12/27/03 11:58 am)
Reply 		I love you X Insider.......feel the friendship
Hi Guests and All,

Let's show and live in the heart, and create some love here.

X Insider thank you for your post!!!!!

Unending hug of humanity, life and healing itself!!

Dave

etzchaim
Registered User
(12/27/03 1:28 pm)
Reply 		Re: Benefits of Study?
> "I've used magic squares and other workings in both Hinduism and Judaism."

There's a lot of David Copperfield's (for those not familiar with the name, he's a famous modern day magician) out
there. If he could make the Statue of Liberty disappear, people can make these "magic squares" bark like a dog or
whatever it is that they do."

It has nothing to do with illusion, YB, it has everything to do with understanding how the Physicial and Astral planes interact with each other. Even the placebo affect is caused by a reaction in the Physical to something that is going on in the Astral plane, causing something to happen (or not to happen as the case may be). If you knew anything about any of this, we wouldn't be having the 'discussion'.

Also, if your problem with Kriya is it's association with SRF and Yogananda, then separate it from the two. I have, not that I needed to, having learned it from somewhere else, but why do keep knocking Kriya if this is really the problem? With only 5 years of experience, it's not like you've invested half a lifetime. Move on. Why create all the negativity here?

Also, herbs are drugs. I use them all the time, because I've had so many bad experiences with conventional medicine and MD"s, who seem to be fairly clueless about health unless they can cut it out and use some fancy technology. Because I'm very familiar with herbs, I know they can be dangerous if misused. Some of them are poisons. I stand by my criticism of you. I have seen people progress in consciousness through meditation, I haven't seen the same results using only herbs, and even the Native peyote users I know drop their use in favor of meditation later on, when the drug has outgrown it's usefullness.

5 years is not a lot of time to have gained much expertise, YB. I think you are very much confusing the Yogananda/SRF experience with any use of meditation. You can't paint with such a broad stroke and be taken seriously. There are too many people NOT involved in a cult who meditate and have made great progress. Separate the cult from the act of meditation, which is what you seem to be saying, and leave it at that. I have nearly 20 years of experience with meditation. I was initiated in '84, and I'm not involved in SRF, nor is Yogananda my Guru. While I have my criticisms of Yogananda, one really cannot expect an organization to thrive when they stopped growing in 1952, and you and I are in full agreement over the mythologizing and worshipping of the Guru and his organization, as well as the mythologized "leaders" ruling the organization with 'Divine Guidance".

I wonder quite a bit these days if there had never been an issue with Yogananda being completely enlightened (my lineage doesn't believe he was, and I don't), I mean, if people, and probably himself - as it seems to me in looking at the history - had been able to keep him in perspective, would many of the issues currently happening have occured?

Edited by: etzchaim at: 12/27/03 2:52 pm
SerenityNow7
Registered User
(12/27/03 2:07 pm)
Reply 		Re: I love you X Insider.......feel the friendship
Hi soulcircle, I salute your unstoppable positivity!

YellowBeard420
Slow Down
(12/28/03 5:30 pm)
Reply
The Trouble with Gurus
Excerpts from "The Trouble with Gurus" by Mary Garden (I'm posting this because of its relation to the topic of this thread and because Autobiography of a Yogi is mentioned in it):

------------------
My conversion to Eastern mysticism was sudden and unexpected. One morning I was a non-believer; that night I was a believer. And yet it took me years to wake up. The dramatic turnabout in my life happened during a ceremony of worship conducted at a yoga ashram 30 years ago. ... In the 1970s, tens of thousands of us went to India: Eastern mysticism was new and exotic to Westerners and we were in the vanguard. We traipsed from guru to guru unable to see that we would have been better to give up on them altogether. ... But there had been no exposés or warnings of the damage that could be done to our minds and our bodies when we surrendered our critical thinking (and our hearts) to gurus. We were young, gullible and susceptible. ... I began to learn about chakras and the kundalini fire that was meant to move slowly up the spinal cord purifying "blocks" in its wake. I read books such as Paul Brunton's A Search in Secret India and Yogananda's Autobiography of a Yogi and was blown away. It was as if I had entered an enchanted kingdom, so different from the dreary Christianity of my childhood. It never occurred to me to question or doubt their stories. I had become a "true believer": in reincarnation, karma, meditation, chanting, Siva, Krishna and Hanuman (the monkey god) and Ganesha (the elephant god) and in the need to have a guru. ... Some gurus are considered the living manifestation of God (Bhagwan) here on earth. As God is seen as too powerful to make contact directly, these gurus are conduits to channel his energy. Premvarni (we used to call him Swamiji) would say: "God will blow your fuse; you need me as a transformer." ... If the guru is seen as infallible, then the disciples are always to blame: it is their karma. ... Now, looking back, Swamiji's behaviours were acts of violence and abuse, if not those of a madman; this discernment is unavailable to devotees who believe their guru is perfect. ... The surrender to such a guru-figure can result in the disintegration of personality and individuality. Joshua Baran, a former Zen Buddhist monk, remarks: "Devotees lose their natural alarm systems, which tell them when things aren't right. This is usually a gradual process." In effect what happens is brainwashing, a subtle process of thought reform.

And so, instead of the promise of increased spiritual awareness and humility, what can often take place is increased robotism. In my own case, over the years I became more and more indecisive, since most major decisions were made for me. Eckart Flother, a well-known German journalist, spent some months as a sannyasin in Poona in the late 1970s and wrote of the dehumanising effects of life with Rajneesh: how a person can become like a puppet; almost an apathetic creature trying to satisfy his basic needs while the rest of his energy is being used to glorify the master. ... There were several reasons why it was so hard for many of us to leave or to give up our search altogether. Not only had we lost our sense of reality but also our defence mechanisms. We had become too frightened or paranoid to leave. ... Sometimes our virtual imprisonment could have dire consequences. Even though Swamiji claimed to be celibate, within weeks I had become a consort and - shortly after - his chief consort. He insisted it wasn't sex; it was just raising my kundalini and getting rid of all those lowly vibrations from years of sleeping with worldly men. ... It took me years to make sense of what I had experienced. It was difficult because in those days cult counsellors did not exist except for a few evangelical Christians who, in my experience, dished out more of the same "mind control". ... this so-called avatar was in fact a deviant con man who preyed on his followers ... His accusations were dismissed for decades and it is only in recent years with the help of the internet that his claims have been corroborated. More allegations have been added; there is a flourishing internet controversy. ... Some may ask: What's wrong with groups that bring solace and a sense of belonging to so many people? Author Wendy Kaminer replies: "That's a bit like asking what's wrong with a lobotomy, [or] a steady diet of happy pills. The rise of charismatic authority figures is always disconcerting, especially when they malign rationalism and exhort us to abandon critical thinking in order to realise spiritual growth. Pop gurus prey on existential anxieties and thrive when our fear of being alone and mortal in an indifferent universe is stronger than our judgement. No-one who seeks worship, however covertly, deserves respect. Argue with them, please." ... In the following decades and even today people still go to India and elsewhere to surrender their minds to gurus - even to those that have been exposed as frauds, charlatans, liars and hypocrites. ... The guru-disciple relationship is probably the most authoritarian of all in its demands for total surrender and obedience. Hence it can also be the most destructive. And far from achieving the freedom and enlightenment that many of us wannabe spiritual pioneers of the 1970s sought (and were promised), we experienced mental imprisonment and confusion. We were seduced by yogis and swamis telling us what we wanted to hear: that we were special and that they were God incarnate. Our need was our downfall.
-----------

nagchampa2
Registered User
(12/30/03 6:48 am)
Reply 		Re: The Walrus Cult Talking Blues
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Edited by: nagchampa2 at: 1/1/04 9:33 pm
redpurusha
Registered User
(12/30/03 8:39 am)
Reply 		Re: The real question
“This is the goal,” Yogananda said, “of life, Self-realization - The knowing in all parts of body, mind and soul that we are now possession of the kingdom of God; we don’t need to pray that it come to us; all we need to do is increase our knowing.”

YellowBeard420
Slow Down
(12/30/03 1:03 pm)
Reply
Re: The real question
> Etzchaim wrote (12/27/03): "Why create all the negativity here?"

YellowBeard doesn't feel that questioning the validity of grandiose religious claims is a negative activity. Few are able to stand against the oppression of spiritual conformity in a way that exposes the core issues of why we fall into such traps of wanting spiritual security. If YellowBeard didn't speak on these issues, there's few others that would.

Any serious Truth seeking will stir the pot. Jesus turned over tables in churches and caused such a stir that they decided to nail him to a cross. The Buddha played the game of doing all the regular meditation techniques generally practiced in Hindu culture and then ended up abandoning them all and practicing in isolation using his own judgment to find Truth. This too was an act of rebellion, just in a different way.

The act of finding that which is Truth, is never a complacent activity. After all, we call it Freedom. And if we're to be free, we need to tear off our shackles of religious conformity. Does this mean that you modify your shackles and make them your own -- no. We tear them off completely, throwing them to the ground and walking free.

> Etzchaim: "I'm not involved in SRF, nor is Yogananda my Guru."

It's interesting to see that YellowBeard's chief detractor is someone who has never been a part of SRF or a disciple of Yogananda. YellowBeard does not feel anyone else here has shown such opposition to this message of spiritual freedom as you. His time with SRF has been short, but at least he was actually in it with all his heart. You've been involved with a break-away Kriya Yoga cult. YellowBeard supposes that your purpose here is to lure dissatisfied SRFers into your cult. He is a threat to your activities here because he speaks on spiritual self reliance, which means that they won't be needing the services of your cult. Surely your activities will continue unabated, but let me remind you that this is the SRF Walrus and not the Etzchaim break-away Kriya Yoga cult Walrus.

> Nagchampa2 wrote: "his devotees are on this board, and so they didn't need to hear these things."

I'll respond with what Wendy Kaminer has said on this subject: "No-one who seeks worship, however covertly, deserves respect. Argue with them, please."

It sounds harsh, but actually what she is saying is that it's important to question people's beliefs on spiritual authority. These beliefs can destroy their lives. People need to at least hear an alternative approach so that they can decide which route is appropriate for them.

If you see someone smoking crack, you shouldn't pull their pipe away as long as they're an adult and capable of making their own decisions. But what one should do is make the dangers of addiction and how that can harm their life known to them. It's the responsible thing to do. The ultimate choice of continuing to smoke crack or not is up to them.

> Nagchampa2: "the only vows he ever took was that of celibacy and poverty, and we have no proof that he broke either vow. the celibacy one is all gossip, and asking lynn for money was his way of building the organization. it was all for God"

YellowBeard does not feel that he kept his vow of poverty. He lived very comfortably off the donations that came his way. His clothing and furnishings were top of the line. And he managed to get fat off a vegetarian diet -- that's not an easy thing to do. One has to eat an awful lot to gain weight on such a diet.

When we say we're doing something for God, anything can be justified with that reasoning. History shows that people have been killed and tortured en masse in the name of God. To use a modern example, doesn't Osama Bin Laden order people to their death in the name of God? He wants the US out of the Middle East. He feels that is the will of God, so he fights a religious crusade to free the Middle East. But who is he to know what God wants? And who is Yogananda to say that he knows what God wants?

One may say here, Yogananda has communed with God and knows. YellowBeard says, all religious leaders make that claim. It's just a game to fool people, and unfortunately people tend to be easy to deceive. Don't the televangelists make that claim all day long? I think it says something when people do make the claim that they're doing the will of God -- it shows that they're a charlatan. No one who is truly humble would make such grandiose claims unless they truly confused their ego with the state of Oneness, which I'm sure happens. This may have been the case with Yogananda, although it's hard to tell with the limited amount of information we have on his real life.

Making wild grandiose spiritual statements tend to impress the gullible and gets them to stick their faces on the ground in front of the abuser. It's what you do to start a cult, there's really no other way to go about it. We need to check the "reality" behind these claims, if we don't, many will continue to have their freedom of thought robbed. Let's examine one such claim by Yogananda's guru, Yukteswar, which we can find at the Windsor Castle site:

--------------
The Hindu scriptures declare that those who habitually speak the truth develop the power of materialising their words. What commands they utter from the heart come to pass. (Yoga Sutras II:36.) [Pa 239n]

"I shall give you my hermitages and all I possess," said swami Sri Yukteswar to the young Yogananda. [Pa 94]

But Yogananda did not get it. Surprise!

"Sri Yukteswar achieved identity with the Ruler of time and space," wrote Yogananda. [Pa 121]

"My master, Sri Yukteswarji, ... had control over all natural forces". (Yogananda). [Say 39]

Sri Yukteswar's flesh-and-blood family inherited and took over his real estate in Yogananda's life-time.

Swami Sri Yukteswar was not up to his word on one occation. Where does that leave us? His words that had to come true, according to Yogananda, binding the cosmos, failed to do so. This leaves us with another delicate problem, the value of Yogananda as a witness or evidence-maker.

oaks.nvg.org/nuss.html
--------------
[Edited to remove a repeated word typo that made for a bit of an eye sore.]

Edited by: YellowBeard420 at: 12/30/03 2:35 pm
nagchampa2
Registered User
(12/30/03 3:59 pm)
Reply 		Re: The real question
(This message was left blank)

Edited by: nagchampa2 at: 1/1/04 9:34 pm
redpurusha
Registered User
(12/31/03 7:15 am)
Reply 		Re: The real question
Here's the conversation between Sri Yukteswar and Yogananda not taken out of context.

As we made our way to the stone balcony of a house overlooking the Ganges, he said affectionately:

"I will give you my hermitages and all I possess."

"Sir, I come for wisdom and God-contact. Those are your treasure-troves I am after!"

The swift Indian twilight had dropped its half-curtain before my master spoke again. His eyes held unfathomable tenderness.

"I give you my unconditional love."

YellowBeard420
Slow Down
(12/31/03 1:09 pm)
Reply
Re: The real question
We feel that Yukteswar's statement, "I give you my unconditional love", does not somehow magically cancel out his previous statement of, "I will give you my hermitages and all I possess." If Yukteswar offered the hermitages honestly, then his statement about giving them to him would have to had come to pass regardless of what was agreed upon in addition. One might say here that he was just testing Yogananda. Well if he's testing him with lies, then he's not the type of yogi that has his words materialized because everything they utter is suppose to be an honest statement. Yogananda made the claim that Yukteswar is of that caliber.

Yukteswar said in very straightforward words: "I shall give you my hermitages and all I possess."

It does not matter if 20 minutes later he says that he'll give him a banana split, those hermitages still have to come if he was a truly honest man.

Several hours later, Yukteswar tells Mukunda, "I give you my unconditional love."

Well this is fine and good. He never offered him a choice between these things. He's just making straightforward pronouncements.

Yogananda did not get his hermitages because it was out of Yukteswar's control. The things that gurus say are just like the things we say. They're just words, there's no special magic to them. Yogananda proclaimed that he was doing the will of God, but one of his temples fell into the sea. He was no more doing the will of God than we are, and he was subjected to all the shortfalls that we are.

This issue has been discussed and examples have been played out on these tricks in the first thread that YellowBeard started on this board. Gurus play these type of games to make it look as though things are under their control that really aren't. Like when they get sick, like we all do, they say they're taking on the karma of their devotees. It's a scam plain and simple. David Copperfield does way better hat tricks than these. But you believe in these things because you want to, not because you're not cleaver enough to detect them. It fills a need we have. We want to control our environment. We want to feel safe and free from the hands of disease and death. That's why we believe in Babaji and magical saints that are free from these things. We want to worship them and become like them. This so called spiritual activity of worshiping gurus is actually an activity based in fear of disease and death, and the fear of living in a world beyond our control. And there's no shortage of con-men to come along and bank on our fears and insecurities. The con-men that do this in the spiritual field we call gurus.

redpurusha
Registered User
(12/31/03 4:14 pm)
Reply 		Re: The real question
Yogananda's refusal sufficiently explains why he did not get the hermitage and all that he possesses. He did not want it.

I went over much of the material in the link provided by yb many years ago. The website is run by some distraught ex-SRFer in scandinavia who I corresponded with for a short period when I found the teachings. His distortion of the teachings even outweighs that of yb's. But this SRF-nemesis does bring up some issues on occasion that provide for a deep examination of the teachings on an intellectual level. There is some benefit to this. Ultimately one's own experience with the teachings/techniques will determine their exact benefit or lack of. As we've seen, people have different experiences. Those with negative/no results cannot win over those with positive results and vice versa. People should really go their own way that works for them without feeling they have an exclusive hold on the truth.

nagchampa2
Registered User
(1/1/04 5:53 am)
Reply 		Re: The real question
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Edited by: nagchampa2 at: 1/1/04 9:35 pm
YellowBeard420
Slow Down
(1/1/04 10:30 am)
Reply
Re: The real question
Happy New Year folks ...

> Redpurusha wrote: "His distortion of the teachings even outweighs that of yb's."

We of course disagree on these issues regarding Yogananda and his teachings, but to call an alternative perspective a "distortion" is a bit unfair. The careful and extensive work that he has done (at the Windsor Castle site) doesn't take things out of context, he's simply bringing many issues to light that have caused him concern and some that have created obstacles for him on his spiritual path.

His view is actually much more conservative than YellowBeard's. His treatises on the subject of Yogananda (and related issues) is the only information on the web that offers a careful alternative analysis (as far as YellowBeard knows). Therefor it is a valuable resource.

He also offers the full text of the *first* edition of Autobiography of a Yogi on his site. This is a great offering for those who are Yogananda purists and for skeptics alike. And he refers to the work as a modern day classic. (YellowBeard's words would describe it in a much more critical light.) So YellowBeard feels that the Windsor Castle author deserves nothing but respect for his offerings.

> Redpurusha: "Ultimately one's own experience with the teachings/techniques will determine their exact benefit or lack of. As we've seen, people have different experiences. Those with negative/no results cannot win over those with positive results and vice versa. People should really go their own way that works for them without feeling they have an exclusive hold on the truth."

Agreed. YellowBeard's views are only presented here for those who are having trouble with the teachings and are in need of a little help in finding their footing again on the Path. YellowBeard is not here to heckle devotees, but to simply let some readers know that if the teachings have not worked for them, they can abandon them and still continue down the Path of Self-discovery.

SRFers have been taught that to abandon the guru is to abandon the help of God. This statement creates much guilt for those that the teachings are not working for. YellowBeard has stated several times -- you are not abandoning God by leaving the guru if you choose to do so. God does not "belong" to any guru or religion. God is for all, and for all to approach in whatever way that is fit for them. For someone to claim to be an exclusive messenger for God is a crime against God and humanity.

[Edited to remove some comments that unfortunately degraded into personal attacks.]

Edited by: YellowBeard420 at: 1/8/04 7:50 am
nagchampa2
Registered User
(1/1/04 7:44 pm)
Reply 		Re: The real question
yellowbeard,

i stand by my belief that yogananda should not be put down to his devotees on this board unless there is a warning and it is in the "Not in the Main Stream" thread. I made the mistake of posting my findings because i was upset at the time of learning certain things, and after thinking it over i deleted. i have not changed my feelings about what i learned.

Edited by: nagchampa2 at: 1/7/04 11:52 am
YellowBeard420
Slow Down
(1/2/04 11:43 am)
Reply
Just Like a Pill
"Just Like a Pill", song lyrics by Pink with SRF comments in brackets by YellowBeard:


I'm lying here on the floor where u left me
I think I took to much [Kriya and artificial devotion]
I'm crying here, what have you done?
I thought it would be fun [thought it would really evolve consciousness]

I can't stay on your life support [the guru-disciple relationship]
There's a shortage in the switch
I can't stay on your morphine [your religious dogma]
'Cause it's making me itch
I said I tried to call the nurse again [Mother Center]
But she's being a little b-itch
I think I'll get out of here

Where I can run just as fast as I can
To the middle of nowhere
To the middle of my frustrated fears
And I swear you're just like a pill
Instead of making me better
You keep making me ill
You keep making me ill

I haven't moved from the spot where you left me
This must be a bad trip
All of the other pills they were different [non-mechanical meditations]
Maybe I should get some help

I can't stay on your life support
There's a shortage in the switch
I can't stay on your morphine
'Cause it's making me itch
I said I tried to call the nurse again
But she's being a little b-itch
I think I'll get out of here

Where I can run just as fast as I can
To the middle of nowhere
To the middle of my frustrated fears
And I swear you're just like a pill
Instead of making me better
You keep making me ill
You keep making me ill


[Edited to remove material that degraded into personal insults.]

Edited by: YellowBeard420 at: 1/8/04 8:12 am
SayItIsntSo
Registered User
(1/7/04 10:34 am)
Reply 		Re: The real question
Quote:
YellowBeard is not only delivering a message with his words, but with the boldness and lack of fear in his actions.


Why do you talk in a third person?

Just wondering.

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