VERY intrusive organization

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kaivalyanandam Registered User (1/29/03 11:07 am) Reply	Re: SRF is Non-Intrusive my dear friend, I do not agree with you. SRF do not tell the people about higher Kriyas, and this is a very delicate point to discuss. If you study deeply about the differences of Traditional Kriya as Guruji had received initiations for three times, from his father, Shastri Mahasaya and then by his Guru, Swamiji Maharaj Sri Yukteswar you will see that there is not only a simplification on the tecnhiques, but many important points are missing. SRF try to control the devotees spiritual path, and for sure this didn't came from the Hindu tradition, and even if SRF Kriya is OK, you can reach the goal practicing it, SRF people are more busy with their survival than any other thing. They are not true sannyasis that live from God's grace. Many of us that are "householders" are much more rennunciants than some monastics. To be intrusive does not necessarily means that they knock at your door, or call you daily, but means a use of any kind of control that ties you to the organization, and for sure this is done. To reach the goal, Kaivalya, we have to overcome the institution and the control that they try to do on us. We have to overcome all dualities, and SRF belong to the world of dualitites. Edited by: kaivalyanandam at: 1/29/03 11:14:08 am
Lobo Registered User (1/29/03 9:41 pm) Reply	Re: SRF is Non-Intrusive Astral 7, Dude, You write as if everything you believe to be true is true. People, you say, just haven't spent the time reading the Lessons, ergo, that explains the thousands of posts on SRF Walrus as being misguided and misinformed. A straw man, my friend; a poor attempt to simplify what must be painful for you to endure, the posts on this board, by making the sweeping generalizations that you post over and over. I can tell you that many of the people, myself included, have decades of experience to come to the conclusions we've all seemed to arrived at. And to just blithely dismiss us, and those posts, as coming from rank beginners who "don't listen correctly....don't read the Lessons correctly....aren't insiders with inside knowledge..... is pure bunkum!!! Daya Mata has turned SRF into the Daya Mata show. She has turned the membership into a personal adoration society, publishing her writings, her tapes, her videos so we'll all know of her "God-realization." All of this stuff has happened in the last 30 or so years. Before that, when I first joined, the focus of Daya Mata and the membership was unequivocally upon the Guru. She was just the head of the organization, not that important. Then she started saying that she is unfalliable. No, not in words, but in implication; having her minions speak of her perfect attunement, the depth of her realization yada, yada, yada. Let me tell you something. People who are really God-realized don't need people's adoration. In fact they all are very humble. And why shouldn't they be. They are free and see the total delusion of trying to influence others to worship them as infallible. They are beyond the Game. All of this has been written about extensively here on this board. I'm sorry, but for me at the very least, it is a disservice to the God within you to question our motives and experiences, without at least having spent the same amount of time with the organization. I noted with interest that you turned down the request to reveal when you became a member, trying to deflect it by saying PY didn't reveal his age. But he never said (maybe you haven't read it correctly!!) that one shouldn't say how long one was a member. He often spoke of the many years since he'd founded SRF. He publicly spoke of many of his long term disciples as being long term, even saying how long, and when they joined. So that excuse won't fly with those who've "read and listened correctly!" Come off it! You are a newbie still infatuated with the glow of finding the "airplane path to God," headed by a "tremendous God-realized being" who is beyond compare. And truthfully I understand. But just do me a favor. Don't tell me that I haven't read enough, meditated enough, blah, blah, blah. You, my friend, have no right to judge me or anyone here as you've not walked the walk.
soulcircle Registered User (1/30/03 1:47 am) Reply	thank goodness for your reply Lobo Thank you Lobo, for replying to astral 7 the "newbee" perhaps.... what time i have is no longer spent reading even a line of astral 7's posts i see that you have replied thoughtfully to astral 7's post, and i fully agree that *Quote:* You, my friend, have no right to judge me or anyone here as you've not walked the walk. astral 7 be good and have fun our hearts don't turn from you life is too short, we hope for you what we hope for ourselves: friendship Lobo, i don't expect that anything will change, but I add my prayer to yours and others who remind astral 7 that enough is enough, and i add my love and community in support to you in your life! circle Edited by: soulcircle at: 1/30/03 1:50:08 am
astral7 Registered User (1/30/03 6:42 am) Reply	Re: thank goodness for your reply Lobo Soul Circle,Lobo & other Users etc, with due respect - from my position I would offer you this. I want to share this wise Quotewith you as well: you will bring great blessings into your life by taking your own advice! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You, my friend, have no right to judge me or anyone here as you've not walked the walk." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You Have no right to judge me either, nor judge Daya Mata & the many great souls that Paramahansa Yogananda's love and wisdom has produced through their own self efforts, through His Self-Realizaion Fellowship and way of teaching. This is the non-intrusive way that has brought freedom and peace and real growth to those who know how to listen and read, and keep loyalty with the teacher by doing correctly. Your approach to some of these matters is ok, but your attitude in many areas is like someone those serving a life sentence in prison while attempting to prove that all the others in society are slave to the system and are living the uninformed life. Or those southerners 140 years ago that attempted to justify slavery by saying those in the north were wage slaves. Or maybe someone from a very conrolling cult is attacking SRF & is envious that SRF does not control its members. If you do not like the cult you are in, get out of cults and work with Yogananda's church. Do you notice that the rights you assume for yourselves you quickly deny to others. Is this the great experience and wisdom your conclusions come from? Finally - believe you gentlemen are all still reading mosts of my posts, for which I send many thanks. regards astral 7
GregsBrother Registered User (1/30/03 7:01 am) Reply	Re: thank goodness for your reply Lobo "If you do not like the cult you are in, get out of cults and work with Yogananda's church." That is what many people who were in SRF have done. They have left SRF and gone out into the clear light of day. SRF is a cult by any outsiders definition. I dont call it a cult, but when non "yogic" people think of the word cult, they are thinking of organizations like SRF. Yogananda's "church" is the universe, not SRF. SRF had to be discarded once it became an obstacle instead of a aid. Arguing back and forth is pointless. If you dont know the truth about SRF, time and attention will eventually reveal it to you. If you have either of those commodities to spend.
Borg108 Registered User (1/30/03 9:28 am) Reply	Re: Question for Astral7 Astral 7, I'm new to this board so please firgive me if you have already answered this before. I'm curious why you participate here. Have you asked Mother Center or any of the SRF monastics if you should be reading what's on this board? I suspect they would tell you to stay away from this site, as I'm sure they have told others. What do you hope to get out of being here? Don't you feel disloyal to God and Guru by exposing yourself to what must seem to you to be negativity, gossip, etc?
astral7 Registered User (1/30/03 12:18 pm) Reply	Re: Self-Realization Fellowship is NON-Intrusive Yo Borg108; It is nice to hear from you, i am new to this board too. Would first like to say that on another thread I did clearly say why I was on this board, and it is a pleasure to be here with thinking, searching, & some self-disappointed souls. A monk may have said such a thing to someone, but not ever to me. Mother center is not behind most of the things you may imagine them to be, & they don't say anything to me because the are NON-intrusive. If you feel you are one who needs direction and approval for doing many things - well OK - we are all different but this has not always been my way! Again Regards and friendshipastral 7
Borg108 Registered User (1/30/03 5:31 pm) Reply	Re: Reply to Astral7 Well, of course SRF appears non intrusive if you have little or no contact with them. I have spent almost all my adult life serving in an SRF temple or center, or in their monastic environment. (I'm reluctant to call them ashrams since I've come to learn what Indian ashrams are really like. SRF monastic life is very different from that. Yoganandaji himself never referred to SRF monks, nuns or ashrams. They were men, women, and children living in colonies.) Here are just a few examples of many things I have personally witnessed that I believe are inconsistent with your views of the organization: a) A member serving in a temple bookroom was told he could no longer serve there when SRF found out he had a non-traditional sexual orientation. He vowed to never have anything to do with SRF after this. b) A new student in one of the Centers was told it was official policy that he could not sit cross legged on a chair to meditate. He also never returned to that Center. c) During temple satsangs, an SRF minister lambasted members for having the darshan of a saint who was visiting from India. This is contrary to sanatana dharma . In India, no matter what path one is on, if a saint comes to town, everyone receives the blessings of that saint. If you read the SRF magazine articles of the 1950s and 1960s, you'll notice that on Daya Ma's trips to India, nearly half the time there, she and her party were visiting saints. Now we are considered disloyal if we do the same. d) During the Vietnem war, I had studied the situation of our involvement there and was convinced beyond a doubt that the war was wrong and that I would not particpate in it. An SRF minister told me that I must do my duty and serve in the military. A second monastic confirmed that I should join the army. Some years later, a senior monastic told me SRF was supportive of the Vietnam war because they were afraid their monks might otherwise get drafted! This same monk now says in private that SRF should be dismantled and started up all over again. e) If you were actively involved at a temple of large Center, I'm sure you would eventually notice that communication flows in only one direction. When has there ever been a two way discussion at an SRF temple or Center, or a flow of suggestions or ideas upward that has ever been taken seriously? At Hidden Valley, a resident once put a question in the satsang box asking if there could be a suggestion box. The monk in charge answered by saying, "What do you need a suggestion box for? We're never going to listen to anything you suggest." The monastic setting is even more oppresive to some of us, as has already been pointed out all over this board. For example, I was shocked when memos fell into my basket by mistake one day detailing personal and sensitive information about those who were serving there, information that was given in confidence and that should have been kept confidential and not been circulated around in memeos. I could go on with many more examples, but I think you get the picture. If your experiences from a distance are different, then that is wonderful for you. I hope you continue to keep focused on your goal. For others who have been deeper within the organization, the organization itself has become an obstacle, so some distancing is required. I hope you can understand and respect that. Most everyone on this board has probably in the past felt just as you do now. Our experiences have led us to where we are now. God is simple - everything else is complex. Just love Him anyway you can. Edited by: Borg108 at: 1/31/03 11:09:23 am
astral7 Registered User (1/31/03 10:19 am) Reply	Self-Realization Fellowship is NON-Intrusive. Hi Borg108 Thanks for you detailed report of alleged experiences by yourself and maybe others. I am going to take your word on all this in friendship � one devotee to another sharing experiences and ideas is a good thing. On the path of life we are all devotees, and good communication results in helping us all! I guess everyone is aware by now that great Discrimination should be exercised with so much false and real data on the internet. One quick reading does not suffice. Rather than attempting to refute any of the above claims, permit me to at least comment on what I have learned about some of the matters in your well written post. Aside from that, I can only say that my dealings with Self-Realization Fellowship both distant and close-up have been by and largely positive, productive and Spiritually rewarding in almost every possible way. It has been a good 2 way communication for myself and others I know. Some of my experiences over time; (a) I have sent in many suggestions over a period of many years, with mostly good results. Now, if I don�t hear from someone in 60 days � I call and I get answers � that is the way I do business. In my experience with orgs and even the law, when I want an answer I get one. Going over the heads of executives is a hobby of mine. (b)�I have sent SRF Criticisms of a few matters that were too slow of skewed with good results, here they showed a good 2 way communication, they listen and act, and are flexible. (c) unknown to many persons, 6 years ago SRF was going to publish a special pamphlet for members at great expense. They had the good sense to send it to a limited number of random devotees, get their opinions on it from devotees assisted by a professional researcher, and then SRF stopped the project when devotees let them know that it needed many changes and was too expensive for the purpose intended. Here again the Self-Realization Fellowship showed it�s humility and trust in sharing a decision with the membership. This is real 2 way leadership. It is sad that so few persons know about these good matters. (d)Many years ago I was struggling with a personal matter.[When I was in New York for my Kriya initiation I asked a young SRF Bramachari for advice on the matter. This turned out to be such good advice and helped me immensely. [actually Master does clearly discuss all the advice I needed at the time.] (e) years ago I had a lengthy audience with the Good Saint Daya Mata, and she is so NON-Intrusive that it took a lot of polite insistence on my part to get her to suggest at least the one thing I could do to resolve a serious personal problem. She finally told me what I could do to have a better situation in my life at that time. I think her hesitation was also partly based on the fact that although I was aware the advice I received was excellent [such is her wisdom]. I was not ready at that time to carry it out fully. But in a similar situation years later, when I did use that advice � it proved to be perfect. A1! (f) Last of all for now [with your idea of limiting these examples] I can only say that although most of my experiences with Self-Realization Fellowship and monks � both close working and distant, has been very good, I feel it hard to believe you have had no good experiences to relate. There was one occasion when I emailed the publishing dept that I had some beautiful photos that could be used on the engagement calendar. Well, some new twit wrote me back that I should forget about it and concentrate on working on my spiritual life. I called him back and explained that I was doing this to help masters� work, and didn�t need his direction on my spiritual life which he knew nothing about [he was Not a monk- but a volunteer]. They got rid of him a week later. So you see, good action does happen. Not always exactly when we want it too, but time takes care of many things. Also, when dealing with a very large organization we will run into both positive and neg experiences when dealing with staff. It is similar to the things that can be said about many different religions. When we run into negative matters, to me it makes a great difference if the ignorant situations are a misreading of the devotees [most of whom are still learning to read and listen], or are bad policy and theology dripping from the top down. There are some narrow & erroneous ideas that can be found right in the Scriptures of some religions, and it gets a lot worse from their leaders-clerics etc who espouse the limited understandings of orthodoxy in those groups. And although we can find fanatics and ignorant persons in all paths, again is it part of the limited human nature that we will always run into � or is it the teaching and bad writ of that path? Here is where many on this board fail to make a proper distinction. Re; some incidents from your post. The note about The Good Lady Daya Mata in India years ago. = I understand your point. But most devotees don�t seem to understand the difference between real and fake gurus, living and spiritually dead guru, and have not the faintest ability to tell the difference. Running after �gurus for self-imagined darshans should be discouraged for most persons. When one is highly advanced like Daya Mata they are in no dangers. Most of those persons I have met did not impress me, not that I was looking for anything. I usually went at the request of a friend as an observer. Agreed, there are some genuinely great beings out there � many of whom are in the Kriya lineages. This alone is the proof of how great this path is. Even with changes made by PY � many of his disciples stand up there with the best of them. His way, the way through Self-Realization Fellowship - is working through Him v/v. Another aspect of this guru chasing problem is that the devotees of each path [eg that Indian saints path] are working to support him � ok. But they don�t usually come to support SRF functions. Unless it is a truly interfaith project. For those who want to put a lot of energy even in organizing or sharing an event for the gurus of other paths � why not instead put that same energy into ones own path. Loyalty is extremely important in any community. There is no sin in visiting a great soul of some other path, just try to separate the great feeling you are imagining from what that soul really is. Few devotees can do it becauses of the strong group influence at such times! In fact there are many devotees who use guru chasing as an excuse for their own spiritual failures. You know � since there is not much progress in my Spiritual life I must have the wrong teacher. A teacher who usually ends up telling them that they need not another guru � but lessons on reading, listening, doing, loyalty, and self-responsibility. Your notes about some personal papers accidentally falling on your basket/desk = as you said � it was accidental. Please don�t stand there and tell us all you made no mistakes while you worked there or elsewhere! One should keep in mind that there will be mistakes, there will be things done not the way you would do them, is it a problem of individuals or the organization. At that rate one could even say if Jesus was so great how did he end up with Judas? The first one who betrayed him. You said,�The monastic setting is even more oppresive to some of us.� There are some that are there without either the right motive or the understanding of what they were getting into, and some who may have their own way of doing things. It should a rewarding lifestyle for those who know what they want in life, know where they are going, and know how to read and listen. And For those who love Yogananda and want to serve others with that same love. A lifestyle that requires considerable spiritual maturity as well. But to those who work unwillingly � most things seem oppressive. Then again training programs are always being worked on and improved at Self-Realization Fellowship ashrams and centers. Hopefully today�s monks are having a better experience. Your matter about who is and who is not supportive of any war is a complex matter. For example- we may never know that not fighting in Viet nam and other places in Asia would have resulted in Bolshevism being even more widespread in Asia than it is. From my perspective the main evil of those wars was the deceit & incompetence of certain US presidents/advisors, and too many deaths. But think of how the Mujahadeen wore down the Russians. All of these incidents contributed to limiting world Bolshevism. Unfortunately our US pres is still interfering with the internal affairs of other nations, the last 100 years is bad history. On this basis the advice you got may not have been the best. Yet so many don�t know if a war is right, and seek to be excused re cowardice. It was after those wars in SE Asia that US became careful about body-bag numbers, other than that there have still been bad policies and battles. Now it is mostly those in other countries that die so weapons expenses can be justified. I hope the guy who gave that answer to suggestion boxes is gone by now � we don�t need people like that running things. My experiences with suggestions to SRF has been very positive In reception and results. Don�t tell me I�m an exception, unless you know of every case to have ever been dealt with by SRF! Again � when I get an answer like that, I go right up the ladder until someone straightens him out.[this should only be done after dealing with the person in question first!] Your comment about volunteer in the bookroom at some temple; This is not SRF this is one of those individuals that did not yet understand that SRF does not have unbalanced sexual prejudices. Again, ignorant stuff at the bottom is not what is at the top, but those at the top should work at clearing up such treatment when it is brought to their attention. I was once part of a med group that didn�t think elections & accountability were very important, I gave them no peace until the got the idea that it was. SRF strongly encourages proper elections and reasonable autonomy in the functioning of Masters meditation groups. I have worked on various volunteer projects at certain SRF centers-ashrams, and I always have a lot of suggestions, many things got changed and the communication was always 2 way. Those in charged were always very happy to hear a better way to do something. I once worked for a large corp. and when I got more responsibility there were times when I was so fed up about the chains of command, I would just do it and say to my boss � well, what do you think? Or if a good suggestion was not accepted because �decisions were already made�. I would just say to the boss, �you have my full cooperation, now, and when we do this job over again a few months from now.� Regards and respect astral.7 Edited by: astral7 at: 2/4/03 7:59:06 am
chrisparis Registered User (1/31/03 3:57 pm) Reply	Re: Self-Realization Fellowship is NON-Intrusive. Dear Astral7, If one were to go to this URL: www.adam.com.au/bstett/PaIncorruptibility.htm, one would discover that the reason PY's body didn't decay for twenty days after his death was that he was embalmed the very next day, and that, according to two experts in mortuary science, there was absolutely nothing unusual about the state of his body, given the factors involved. Although the decay or non-decay of Yogananda's body is much ado about nothing, in and of itself, the fact is that someone high up the pecking order at SRF made a decision many years ago to MAKE it important, to portray his incorruptibility as a miracle. This, well, let's call a spade a spade, DECEPTION, has been continued to this very day. Every book SRF publishes refers to it. So, with all respect, your fine display of apologetics for the "saintly" Daya Mata and the overall goodness of the much maligned board of directors and organization of SRF falls quite far short of being convincing, at least to me.
astral7 Registered User (1/31/03 5:52 pm) Reply	Re: Self-Realization Fellowship is NON-Intrusive. So now you want to pick on Yogananda's body again, I know birds that do this for a living! At any rate there is NO deception needed, intended, or existing on the matter you speak of, SRF were informed by the experts at Forest Lawn that [regardless of embalming- which SRF has also published in various places - see book "In Memoriam PY.] F L says that to their knowlegde at that time the absence of dessication and fungus/mold etc was unique in morturary experience. Do youknow more about these things than they do? And it really surprises me that you are taking the words of some "experts"? on this matter - someone who was definitely not a witness to those events. He-she most likely has never even seen the type of situation we have with Yogananda's body[even the dehydrated & leathered bodies of ancient Egyptians don't compare with one who remained "as fresh and unravaged as the day he entered mahasamadhi"pp.] He-she may even be one of those religionists who fear that there are any great souls around. They could never imagine there is more than one way to salvation. WE can find "experts" to contradict anything, I suppose, as the courts have found to their chagrin. But the sincere person will seek truth for the love of it. I think you are attempting to create much ado about a NON-deception which was straight and honest reporting. I offer you due credit from one point of view. Paramahansa Yogananda's unique life and virtuosic output of kindness, divine love, creativity, research, originality, and integrity, spiritual inspiration, and many greatly developed disciples was such , making a lot out of the state [even though unusual] of his corpse would hardly be required. Perhaps those that wished to help the Masters work and inspire devotees to make the greater effort to learn and listen, and meditate knew that every inspiring incident is a motivator to all of us. When we compare this matter to many persons being cananized as saints because someone prayed to them and became well[from what we may never know?]. Yogananda is pretty high up there as this is only a small part of His gift to us. He did things like this regularly - with witnesses even. Who knows - if you are lucky - maybe your guru? will not rot soon after death. Or if cremated - who will know. Since non-deterioration reflects upon the mental and physiological state of a persons life in many ways, I am glad you brought this matter up. This message board does have a tendency that encourages the examining of matters more deeply. From what we know, the Avatara Paramahansa Yogananda was born with a body beset with health problems, from which Yukteswar & others gave him some great help. Carrying some degree of this burden through much of his life it is amazing to me that his body carried on for that 59 years. Especially in spite of the burden of heavy personal and organizational responsibilities he took on to leave the world this outstanding divine legacy, and with the working out of others health problems on that body. Much of which we will never know about. sharing ideas with regards and respect, astral_7 Edited by: astral7 at: 1/31/03 7:14:24 pm
Lobo Registered User (1/31/03 9:38 pm) Reply	Re: thank goodness for your reply Lobo Astral 7, You might be interested to learn that the only cult that I belong to, have ever belonged to, is the SRF cult. I am not a member of Ananda, the organization I believe you have the "hots" for, as I begin to understand more, appreciate more what is your true agenda on this board. If you notice this is the SRF Walrus board. If you want to try and stop people from joining Ananda, or better yet, if you want to change their "delusional" thinking and help them to come to the depths of your understanding, I might make a suggestion. Why don't you start an Ananda Walrus board? There you could spend all your time attacking your enemies. You could extoll the great Goddess who runs the show and perfectly exudes God-realization. Just think you wouldn't have to listen to me, has you've just accused me of hypocricy, with my own delusional obsessions! A perfect solution couldn't be found anywhere. "People of the same craziness only find out they are crazy when they mix with people of who have a different craziness!" Sri Sri Yoganandaji. When I wrote that you don't have the right to judge me, or the others here, as I wrote those words I was aware that you would probably accuse me of just what you did hypocricy, for what you see as judging Daya Mata, and all the others who've ruined what was a most beautiful thing wroth forth on this miserable plane of existence by a Fully Liberated Being. I have been sharply critical of Daya and some of the others. The distinction as I see it is that as a member I have the right to do so, based upon my love and devotion to the Guru-deva of my heart. I am just a little member, no body special, that's for sure!! But when I see what is being done, and in the name of the Love-Kindness-Compassionate-Healing Gurudeva, it strikes me that it is my duty to speak out publicly. At any rate, you might be surprised to know that I also esteem Daya, Ananda, Mrinilini, Sahaja, Durga, Vijoya Ma, Mukti Ma, and many others. I have had the distinct blessing to meet Daya Mata and I was aware that I was in the presence of powerful spiritual being. And for many years I tried to absorb as much of her vibration as I could: reading all her books many times, listening with attentive-devotion to her tapes, watching her videos whilest marveling at her devotion, her realization. But my illusions were shattered about her and how she has lead SRF, particularly how she has become enamoured with herself (as I see it), her secretiveness, her absolute power-none can cross her and stay!! And I know that the Guru-deva that I follow and love, would clean house if he was here on this plane of existence. He himself said so, "oh, how they will change the teachings when I'm gone." And to Ma Durga, "Look how the Wrights are trying to take over the work." Best to you
username Registered User (2/1/03 6:55 am) Reply	astral 7 re: your 1-31 1pm post you are either a mother center plant on this board OR you have given enormous amounts of money to SRF because if what you say here is true you are getting treatment that is NOT accorded to regular members. Care to share with us how much money you have given to SRF
astral7 Registered User (2/1/03 8:41 am) Reply	Re: astral 7 re: your 1-31 1pm post Dear Username; I will make it clear that I am not a plant of, nor have I ever been influenced by Self-Realization Fellowship to represent them in anything. Keep your imagination from running wild please. My support of SRF is because it is the child of the one I love also, Yoganandaji. Things are not as they appear! astral.7 Dear Lobo: This may be the SRF Walrus board, but don't think that there are no persons from other groups-religions that are not using it to weaken Yogananda's work. Whether they be members of cults, fanatical religionists, atheists or humanists. >>>>>>Lobo wrote; "But my illusions were shattered about her and how she has lead SRF, particularly how she has become enamored with herself (as I see it), her secretiveness, her absolute power-none can cross her and stay!! And I know that the Guru-deva that I follow and love, would clean house if he was here on this plane of existence. He himself said so, "oh, how they will change the teachings when I'm gone." And to Ma Durga, "Look how the Wrights are trying to take over the work."'<<<<<<<<<< It is great that you should share you deeper feelings about Daya Mata & Yogananda with us, I can deeply feel it in your words. But sorry - I have not seen where she has changed re enamored - I have seen no signs of this. Is it possible that you have traded one illusion for another? You know, "frying pan into the fire" syndrome, which some persons here may suffer from! The secretiveness/and/or aloofness that has come may be very essential. As her life has been threatened by others who would like to suppress this great work of Masters'. Even they can see that she is one more great example of what Kriya and/or the SRF path of PY can do for ones life. You are surely able to appreciate what a great threat Yoga and Masters� legacy is to the followers of all "Abrahamic religions", each of which claims that their way is the only way - and all other ways are ungodly and evil. His life is their great slap in the face, their expose as it were in so many ways. Those persons who may be enamored with themselves do so by: (a) insulting other leaders, (b) making false claims as to their status re guru or lineages status, or even their own persons - most of those others who left did this, some from India have done this - but Daya Mata has not fallen into this deception. (c) those teachers and gurus? who spend so much time with the public attempting to make a name for themselves, or doing things that will make them noticed. some 0f those others seem to be making themselves "enamored". Not because they are Very public only, or because they share their writings - but it is in the way that they do it. These small ways are not part to Daya Matas life in any way, and not part of anythng she says of writes. During all these formative years for SRF, I believe Daya Mata was the right person for the task to be done. I am not sure where you found that alleged quote about the Wrights, but it sounds like it came from someone who either had a personal bone to pick - or was jealous of others in some way. It may be an expression of resentment also? Little do we know of what really goes on in most areas, don't forget there is at least two sides to every story! Some writings were changed, and for those who do not understand why they are carelessly and misunderstandingly upset. As I see the writings now, they do more clearly represent the totality and fullness of Yogananda's teachings which have not been changed. What teaching has been changed??? Now, there are some others that have actually gone and changed some Kriya or PY teachings to elevate their own positions and gain followers. I think that this is what Yogananda refers to when saying that teachings would be changed when he was gone. Some Others outside of SRF, both from America and India have changed things because they needed to get public attention somehow, as most of them had little real substance within themselves to offer the world. One must remember that even Yogananda changed things through the years as he learned, and his most recent revelations one should consider to be his final word. But like the disciples of Jesus, who believed that "salvation was only for the Jews," [Jesus earlier comments only - he came to Peter later to straighten them out] people fail to listen Changes to what the master said before he left. With PY it was also sometimes different than what He said in the 1920's. These Persons who are still worshipping His earlier ideals are the psychological antiques that PY speaks of. His "unedited writings" may not be as sacred as some would like to believe. He himself was changing some of them all along. Those writings do have a special quality of their own, but he saw fit to make continual changes. The example of flexibility not often seen in organization is part of his teaching as well. If the SRF, in continuing this tradition of PY�s should make an error at some point, I am sure it will get corrected. At this point I haven�t seen any change in the teachings. If you have, let me know. One must also keep in mind here how to separate �teachings� from organizational policy and from mere word changes. There are still a couple of areas in the Autobiography that could use word changes. One should also realize that PY gave many instructions to those near him [especially the editors in chief to whom he had entrusted this part of the work] re changes before he left which did not need ashram or immediate public announcements. Regards and respect astral.7 Edited by: astral7 at: 2/4/03 8:10:10 am
chrisparis Registered User (2/1/03 9:03 am) Reply	Re: astral 7 re: your 1-31 1pm post Astral7 In the first place, I am not "picking on the master's body". SRF has made it an issue. I also have heard about PY and his alleged filandering with the female disciples, but that is currently inthe realm of hearsay. The issue of what happened with his body is a documented, substantiated fact. Since you are at such pains to defend the organization, I merely go to one issue where the organization is being, to be VERY charitable, less than honest. SRF may not have been informed, and may have taken the word of one mortician in 1952, but they HAVE to have known the facts since then, but still they exercise DECEPTION on the public. In the second place, your remark about the editing of PY's writings appears to boarder on the fatuous. Are you in fact saying that PY is editing his own writings from beyond the grave? Oh yeah, I can see that now. PY:" I need to change all that stuff I wrote about the Rubayat. Now that I don't have that achey old body to drag around any more, I see it SO much more clearly". Get real. The only way we, who never met PY, can know ANYTHING about his thought or teaching is through what he wrote, and if his writings are being edited by others, that means we can know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about him or his thought. Being a mystic, a disciple, doesn't mean one surrenders their capacity for critical thought. To suggest, even remotely, that it does, is to do what the Roman Catholic church and other CULTS have done. Speaking for myself, I have grown enormously tired of your smarmy, condescending messages on this board, with your blinkard devotion to SRF, and your twisting of the words of others to deny anyt truth they may contain, in order to perpetuate the myth of sanctity of the SRF organization. While I admit that Paramahansa Yogananda presented alot of wonderful spiritual teaching to the western world, there are serious and legitimate concerns over the SRF and its pretension to be the only legitimate purveyor ofthose teachings; and no amount of jesuitical sophistry on your part is going to make those concerns go away.
username Registered User (2/1/03 11:20 am) Reply	Re: death threats against Daya Mata Astral 7; Please delineate the death threats that have been made against Daya Mata. Could you include dates of these threats? (Also, maybe you could tell us how you know about them.)
soulcircle Registered User (2/1/03 1:35 pm) Reply	hmmmmm Guests, friends and all, Reading the responses to this person [he does sound like a nut, at least most of the time] And literally not reading a word of this, sometimes acorn- sounding, person makes rather good reading ~~~~~~~~~~ thank you all, with the one mentioned exception, for such good reading!! hmmm, i wonder if anyone else might enjoy this thread in this way hmmm circle
chuckle chela Registered User (2/1/03 6:24 pm) Reply	To Astral7, regarding the threat of SRF Dear Astral, I was interested in the statement you wrote: The secretiveness/and/or aloofness that has come may be very essential. As her life has been threatened by others who would like to suppress this great work of Masters'. Even they can see that she is one more great example of what Kriya and/or the SRF path of PY can do for ones life. You are surely able to appreciate what a great threat Yoga and Masters� legacy is to the followers of all "Abrahamic religions", each of which claims that their way is the only way - and all other ways are ungodly and evil. His life is their great slap in the face, their expose as it were in so many ways. I have never seen any evidence that Sri Daya Mata�s life has been threatened in such a manner. Can you please elaborate on this and tell us from where you received this information. Thanks. Similarly, I wasn�t aware that Yogananda�s teachings specifically were a threat to followers of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam. I am aware that some fundamentalist Christians are opposed to virtually all other religions, including Yogananda�s teachings, and I have read one extended, negative commentary on Yogananda�s teachings by one such individual. Of course, fundamentalists of any of these religions might find Yogananda�s teachings, like many other teachings, offensive. But I�m not aware that SRF specifically is perceived as a threat by very many at this time. I�d appreciate it if you could elaborate on this phenomenon for us. Is the perceived threat very widespread? Do you think the perceived threat is resulting in a backlash towards SRF? If so, how do you see it manifesting? How do you think SRF is responding or will respond to any such backlash or perceived threat? From what you wrote, you suggest that Sri Daya Mata�s �secretiveness/aloofness� is one response. Thanks for your time and effort.
Lobo Registered User (2/1/03 8:23 pm) Reply	Re: astral 7 re: your 1-31 1pm post Astral 7, It sure seems that you have got the attention of quite a few of us posters here on this board!!! And that, to my mind, isn't a bad thing at all. I can appreciate with sympathy your deeply held beliefs as they relate to SRF, its president, their representation of what and who Paramahansa Yoganandaji was, their current leadership concerning his writings and recordings, and the fact that you see a security threat as being behind the secrecy of the leaders with their resultant lack of access to the membership. And I want to take this opportunity to apologize for calling into question the length and amount of your involvement with the organization; especially in the strident, flippant way that I did so. It was not right for me to do so. After all, we are all disciples of our guru-deva, and if we can agree on anything we can probably all agree that one of the prime tenets of his teachings was the need for kindness, and respect for others, irregardless of how we might strongly disagree we each other. That out of the way, I wish to address the same theme that username and Chuckle both asked you to elaborate more fully upon. Namely the secretiveness of the president, well for that matter, the vice-president, treasurer, etc. etc. You state that it is a security measure consciously taken by the organization to protect these disciples which necessitates their unfortunate need to hide from the world. I can believe that maybe some unbalanced individual(s) might wish them harm, after all someone in fact did shoot up the chapel at Mt. Washington, so there is some validity to that theory. But back in the day I remember Daya Mata giving talks at India Hall and Hollywood. Not for a "ceremonial or anniversary" reason when a "higher-up" might be expected to appear and say a few words; no, she just came to offer the assembled the fruit of her lifetime of devotion to PY and her insight into living the spiritual life. She also used to speak at some of the other temples as well, for the same reasons. Mrinilini isn't much of a "joiner" as far as I can tell, although I have pictures of her at India Hall joining one of the anniversary celebrations back in the early 70's. She spoke at the 1970 Convocation, which impressed me deeply, but as I say I don't think she's ever been "out front" in a speaking role. Mukti Ma used to speak regularly on Sunday mornings at some of the Temples, Encinitas and San Diego I believe. She gave the same talk as the male monastics, but again, she had much to offer in much the same way as Daya. For the last 20 or so years, however they've all stopped this practice. But they seem to have time for the wealthy, the famous, or some combination of both. You say you got to have a personal interview with her. And I can imagine, having had the blessing to have a personal interview with Ma Durga, that it was one of the highlights of your spiritual life, as it was mine as well. But again we hear of these very infrequently. But our Guru-deva used to see people all the time. He was open, available, down to earth, always it appears more than willing to help anyone that he could irrespective of their religion or other defining status. He would hold lunches after he lectured at either Hollywood or San Diego (which he did for years driving down Highway 1 alternating weekends). He held dinners frequently, just for the fun of it, to celebrate God with other devotee's, and to see and appreciate his friends. In short he was, it seems to me, the polar opposite of what is the performance of those in power today. That is an important thing to me, for I associate secretive, elusive, aloofness by spiritual leaders with groups like the Catholic's (Pope), and the Mormons, and others. Yes, the Pope has legitmate security concerns, but still, no one to my knowledge has ever physically harmed Daya or any of the others in any manner. Finally I believe that P. Yoganandaji had finished his writings before his demise. The job of editor is usually associated with "polishing" the authors product so it meets with the rules of grammar and composition. I don't think that it is their job to change meanings, intent, or add their own thoughts in place of the authors because they believe it better. Yet we have Tara and now Mrinilini apparently engaged in just that. To me, the guru-deva is the one who I want to read and hopefully understand, not his disciple, whilst surely more spiritual evolved than I, but still they are his disciples. I dont' think that PY would rewrite the Holy Science, or add his thoughts; no, he rightfully realized his position, and the depth and grandeur of his guru's realization. In other words, it is hubris of a high degree for the disciple to believe that it is role to add anything, beyond grammatical changes, to the Opus of their Realized, Liberated, Guru-deliverer! Again, sorry for the tact I took earlier. Best.
KS Registered User (2/1/03 9:18 pm) Reply	Threats against the president???? SRF has lied to people and about people, mistreated friends and relatives of some people and operated in a less than spiritual way. Many people know this and have been hurt by them. It is quite understandable that they might have received angry letters at times. Dear Walrus readers, this is just karma in action. What is the mystery? SRF using this as an excuse to hide from the membership is pathetic. I also have heard rumors of threats against Daya. No big surprise. Cults make a lot of enemies. I believe the rumors to be exaggerated to give them an excuse to hide and reinforce their ideas that everyone is out to get them. This allows them to better maintain discipline of the monastics and employees, gives them excuses for ignoring the membership and maintaining secrecy, and makes them feel more important. The bad ladies have serious mental problems. Once you realize that fact their actions are not so mysterious. It is only if you think of them as God-realized that their actions are difficult to understand. You must improve your understanding of SRF.

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