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Should Free
Registered User
(5/31/02 10:09 pm)
Reply
ezSupporter
 This model seems to work. Let's follow it.
NEW YORK TIMES
May 31, 2002

Angry at Scandal, Lay Group Seeks Quiet Uprising in Pews
By PAM BELLUCK

ELLESLEY, Mass., May 30 — The spartan basement of a church school was
overflowing with people when Dr. James E. Muller took the microphone the other
night.

The room was charged with the nervous electricity of people plotting a
revolution, in this case one that would change the very structure of the Roman
Catholic church so that lay people would have a voice in major decisions.

But in this Boston suburb that is still reeling from the clergy sexual-abuse
crisis, Dr. Muller chose his words carefully.

"Someone said, is this the Boston Tea Party?" he told the crowd. "I believe, in
this scandal, the tea party has been led by the media and the trial lawyers.
Our job is not quite as flashy — it's the constitutional convention that came
after."

Dr. Muller, a cardiologist, is a leader of Voice of the Faithful, a group of
lay Catholics formed four months ago by about two dozen parishioners discussing
the scandal. Since then, it has mushroomed into an organization claiming nearly
10,000 members from about 40 states and 21 countries. More than 150 parishes in
Massachusetts and about 40 in other states plan to start chapters.

The group has also adopted ambitious goals, in particular seeking to establish
a small degree of democracy in a church that has long resisted it. Leaders want
to set up Voice of the Faithful chapters in every parish in the country and to
establish what Dr. Muller called a "general assembly" of lay people to be
consulted, potentially, on everything including finances, personnel and
liturgy.

They also plan an alternative fund-raising drive for people who want to support
Roman Catholic charities without giving to their archdiocese.

So far, the Archdiocese of Boston has reacted warily to the group's emergence,
making it apparent in meetings and statements that lay activities should not
detract from its own pre-eminence and power.

But several religious experts believe that Voice of the Faithful stands a
chance of success — especially if it does not become a radical operation, or be
perceived that way.

"This is one of the best possibilities for genuine reform in the church,
precisely because this movement up to this point has not fallen into one of the
categories that could allow it to be marginalized by the archdiocese," said R.
Scott Appleby, a theologian at Notre Dame.

"Voice of the Faithful is very shrewd to be calling for reform based on
principles in place already," he said. "They are Erasmus, not Luther. Erasmus
said, I remain Catholic because I believe the basic theology of the church but
I think there's widespread need for invigorating those institutions."

Most of those joining are hardly habitual rabble-rousers. They are devout,
mostly middle-aged or older, and many are eucharistic ministers, parish council
members, Sunday school teachers. Some nuns attend meetings, a former
archdiocesan spokesman is involved, and some priests are quietly supporting
chapters forming in their parishes.

"These are not just mainstream Catholics but people who have very
well-established lives and who are investing themselves in something that they
really don't have to," said Steve Krueger, an investment banker and Voice of
the Faithful member. "They're doing this out of their desire to do something to
bring about reforms in the church so that these terrible things don't happen
again."

Each week, hundreds of people pack meetings in this well-heeled community,
wedging into the basement of a parish school at St. John the Evangelist church.
The crowds have grown so much that the organization plans to open its own
office, hire a staff and incorporate as a nonprofit group. And, thanks to a
well-trafficked Internet site (www.voiceofthefaithful.org), people from as far
as Europe plan to attend a conference in Boston in July.

But as Voice of the Faithful grows, the group keeps checking its compass, and
its public image, to make sure it is not considered seditious.

True, its slogan is "Keep the Faith, Change the Church." But leaders and
experts believe that change is most likely to happen with the acceptance of
officials in the church hierarchy.

As a result, the group has agonized over everything from whom to invite to
meetings to whether it should call for the resignation of Cardinal Bernard F.
Law, which it declined to do.

There appear to be good reasons for the caution. So far, at least two priests
have been called in by Bishop Walter J. Edyvean, the cardinal's top aide, who
discouraged them from being hospitable to Voice of the Faithful in their
churches, people familiar with the meetings said.

At a meeting last week with Voice of the Faithful leaders, Bishop Edyvean said
that he approved of the group's goals to help victims of clergy sexual abuse
and to support "priests of integrity," Mr. Krueger said. But, according to
people at the meeting, the bishop did not support the group's efforts to make
the church more democratic or raise money outside the archdiocese.

In a statement, a spokeswoman for the archdiocese said that Bishop Edyvean had
explained at the meeting that lay groups "are meant to aid the mission of the
Church and that mission is carried on necessarily with and under the bishop of
the diocese. Likewise, it is the diocesan bishop's role to exercise vigilance
with regard to the way in which Catholic associations perform the tasks they
set for themselves."

In a letter last month, Bishop Edyvean, writing on Cardinal Law's behalf,
instructed priests "not to join, foster or promote" a more moderate lay
organizing effort, in which parish councils — which exist in every church —
would simply join together, forming a larger group.

"I think the tone of it scared some priests," said the Rev. Walter Cuenin, who
supports the group. "In this climate, any kind of organization like Voice of
the Faithful is read as hostile."

Two members of St. Patrick's parish in Stoneham said that Bishop Edyvean had
told their pastor, the Rev. William T. Schmidt, not to support efforts to set
up a Voice of the Faithful chapter. Father Schmidt did not return calls seeking
comment.

"So what do you do, put your pastor's job on the line?" asked one of the St.
Patrick's parishioners. "I don't want to do that."

The other priest Bishop Edyvean called in was the Rev. Thomas Powers, pastor of
the Wellesley church where Voice of the Faithful began. Father Powers did not
return calls seeking comment, but he recently asked the group not to endorse
chapters in parishes whose priests were not supportive. Dr. Muller said that
the group had agreed and decided to meet in other churches to lessen pressure
on Father Powers.

Dr. Muller has been down a similar path before. A group he helped to found in
1980, International Physicians for the Prevention of Nuclear War, grew in size
and stature, and won the Nobel Peace Prize in 1985.

Dr. Muller said that if the archdiocese were to clamp down on Voice of the
Faithful — prohibiting it from meeting in churches, say — the group might
become more radical.

But for now, it has taken steps to avoid antagonizing the church. For instance,
the group recently dissociated itself from a chapter in Worcester because that
chapter meets in the office of a lawyer for plaintiffs suing the church in
sexual abuse cases.

While the group talks of "donation without representation," leaders said the
alternative fund drive was intended only to support charities, not flout the
archdiocese's annual campaign, the Cardinal's Appeal.

"What we think is going to happen is that the Cardinal's Appeal will be lucky
if it raises 50 percent of its goal — that's how deep the disgust is with the
Catholic laity," said Jim Post, another leader of the group.

"What we're saying to that 50 percent that's not going to play is, don't lose
sight of all the good work done by Catholic social service programs," Mr. Post
said.

Similarly, in April, the group — then just a single though growing unit —
decided not to call on Cardinal Law to resign because 10 members opposed the
move, even though more than 200 voted in favor.

"We want to be all-inclusive," Dr. Muller said. "If there's a single thing that
could impede our growth, it's if conservatives think they're not going to have
a voice here."

Strategies like this have made even the more tradition-rooted Catholics say
they feel welcome.

"I'm the conservative," said Dick Crino, 63, a Voice of the Faithful steering
committee member who voted against calling for Cardinal Law's resignation.
"I've told them I think there's too much anger toward the archdiocese in the
group, and my big fear in this is that this is a seed that could cause a schism
in a church. I think that a number of people didn't want to hear that there was
too much anger in the group, but I've been able to express my views."

Sister Jon Julie Sullivan, a nun from Cambridge who attended a recent meeting,
was impressed by the group's efforts to be "collaborative" with the
archdiocese.

"Of course the hierarchy is noticing," she said. "It's like the man in
Tiananmen Square in front of the tank. It's a very strong image."

Copyright 2002 The New York Times Company | Permissions | Privacy Policy

Anyone in SRF wants to lead? What about the name "SRF Lay's Voice" The nuns have not sexually abuse anyone (so far), but they have emotionally abused many. Sexual abuse gets more attention, but emotional abuse can hurt as much or even more. It all depends on the degree.

crogman1
Registered User
(6/2/02 8:22 am)
Reply 		Re: This model seems to work. Let's follow it.
Very interesting. How would we proceed? This is being done by active members of the church. Most of us have been tossed out or distanced ourselves. At least I think that is the case. Where would our acceptance come from?

As with Gandhi's efforts, these things depend on visibility and we won't have that.

I see the above message a positive thing, really positive.

soulcircle
Registered User
(6/2/02 4:12 pm)
Reply 		EUREKA! We Will We Will Rock You!!!!!!
Crogman and Should Free and ALL,

You know, having remodelled the chapel in Richmond, and having contributed in prayer and encouragement in every way at Lake Shrine, many of us have "claim" to these gathering places. All of us have a hand in every iota of SRF's physical presence in the world.
For instance, know how much blood and heart and spirit the brother, who after leaving after 30 years, never got one call from the "God- realized leaders picked out for the future by babaji.....who after his life went into these physical structures, never received one call from them, after he left, asking, "How are you?"

It reminds me of the thinking, that we are what is. We are the USA, we are MINNESOTA, we are CALIFORNIA

By the way, I still am a presence at the chapel at Richmond.

Whether we spend a generation, raising our daughters and sons, doing our dharma with or without children, while we gather in potluck and in holistic compassion and spiritual life, and in that generation SRF is "healed," whether it happens in '02 or '03 or .........

This is us and we will, we will rock you!!!!

This entry by you Should Free, is an entry by Divine Mother.
As with Divine Mother's heart.....

*********THERE IS NO ORGANIZATION OR FEAR*********
**as yogananda-dif.org says an organiztion has no soul**

Chuckle Chela, as in Divine Mother's heart, there is love for each and a friendship with each...there is no organization in Divine Mother's heart....there is oneness and love (for the failures too) with and for each one of us.

Chuckle Chela, today you are the clear pool of compassion and hope, today's reflection of Divine Mother, we love you.........hug.

see Meeting Place / Community / Colonies
in there see potlucks and global
we are joining and living in compassion and hope

<heypoet@aol.com>
soulcircle

soulcircle
Registered User
(6/2/02 4:19 pm)
Reply 		Voice of the Faithful
Should Free and crogman,

We are signing up. Four former, future, and present ( you name it) devotees, signing up!!
I sign up. My friend compassion signs up.
Should Free?
crogman?

The sun sets on abuse, physical, emotional and psychological, in our hopes and prayers.

Quote:
Dr. Muller, a cardiologist, is a leader of Voice of the Faithful, a group of
lay Catholics formed four months ago by about two dozen parishioners discussing
the scandal. Since then, it has mushroomed into an organization claiming nearly
10,000 members from about 40 states and 21 countries. More than 150 parishes in
Massachusetts and about 40 in other states plan to start chapters


soulcircle and my friend compassion

Edited by: soulcircle at: 6/2/02 4:20:43 pm
soulcircle
Registered User
(6/3/02 8:16 pm)
Reply 		did i sign up too quickly
Voice of the Faithful,

It is not another parallel organization we want is it?

Whatever life srf has, we don't want to strengthen it by opposing it, do we?

We are not at all interested in power, are we?

I signed up too quickly.

I am Dave Dunlop, meeting informally with friends
...mysterious
......communing
.........soulcircle

nothing less, nothing more

All who are thirsty come for water
The fresh bubbling clear spring quenches best

Not the ivory towers of the fear farm
Not the dream of changing the world

All you love
do so within their heart

For themselves
and those near

Love is what I become
in a garden, in an inspired thought

Love is what we have always been friends
Love isn't signed up to

Storm the gates of injustice, I understand
I was in prison ten weeks opposing
...Vietnam and organized murder

When you come home from the wars
come into an embrace of yourself
Come into my open arms of nurturing

You all have been kind to me
I feel very caring towards you

So much so..that ..........listen close
There isn't a me or you!

At the nub of compassion
No object or subject

At the touch
Of a hand in hand

There are moments of no subject, no object
The flame of understanding hearts weaves one clothe
From Thee and Me

<heypoet@aol.com>
soulcircle

Edited by: soulcircle at: 6/4/02 2:25:34 am
Should Free
Registered User
(6/6/02 12:23 am)
Reply
ezSupporter
 Re: did I sign up to quikly? THE CREATION OF THE THIRD ORDER
Perhaps you signed OUT too quickly

Let us explore the possibilities here -- a little bit at least. Let us suppose that we get a lawyer that helps us to create an NPO with a definite MAIN goal of being the voice of the householders. To represent them in front of the SRF board of director. In fact, this would be the real creation of the "third order" that Master talked about -- the lay disciples, third order.

Rationale behind this? Very simple. We, householders have not had any representation in SRF since the times of Rajarsi Janakananda, about 50 years ago!!! The organization has been completely run by monastics who have different needs. They do not necessarily understand the householder's need -- spiritual, psychological and physical needs. They have tried to convince us that the path to God is almost identical for the monk and the householder, but they are mistaken, and the experience of many, many of us is proving exactly the opposite.

Name for the organization?

I suggest a few here: 1) YHA ; Yogananda Householders Association (can be read YEA!)
2) YHF ; Yogananda Householder Fellowship
3) YHLO; Yogananda Householder Loyal Opposition

Goals for the organization:

1) Seek householder's representation in the SRF board of directors (eventually 50%)
2) Promote understanding and good relationships between monastics and householders
3) Voice concerns of householders SRF's employees -- to protect them from future abuse.
4) Seek the creation of an SRF research department to unite religion and science for the service of humanity according to Master's desire.
5) Seek the update of the language used to communicate the teachings, living intact its essence. The new language will be a compassionate language instead of a "Should" language
6) Seek the creation of an archive with Master's writings (books and lessons), recordings, videos and make that available to the public as "THE CORE" of the teachings.
7) To pursue the use of clear disclosures when SRF publishes something that is not coming directly from Master. That disclosure should include: Who is the author, what was/is his/her relationship with Paramahansa Yogananda, and a clear disclaimer indicating that what is presented there is a personal interpretation of the author and not an essential "should" in the path.
8 ) To promote the creation of extensive guidelines for householders on "how to apply the teachings" so that they can protect their physical, spiritual and mental sanity. This guidelines should be written by an interdisciplinary team, including doctors, nutritionists, psychotherapists, and physiotherapists -- again, religion and science working together.
9) To research what Master said for householders and what he said for monastics. What Master wrote intended for monastics and what was intended for householders.

YHF (or whatever) could have its own independent income from its own members, and pursue the above goals patiently as only an organization can do. YHF, can gradually contact all the devotees around the world and when SRF recognizes its value and is willing to work in a team with the Lay Disciples (the third order that Master talked about), there will be as many members there, as SRF householders devotees. It is my opinion that only this will really secure the rights, physical and mental health integrity, and interests of the householders.

The question is? Who is willing to lead us into this? I do not think it is a matter of wanting power as it has been said. It is a matter of feeling the call to give this type of service to God and Guru. This is a serious enterprise.

Last minute idea: I suggest that we call Brother Davananada to lead us into this.... We can all support him to be our leader in YAH!

Should Free

Edited by: Should Free at: 6/6/02 12:39:43 am
soulcircle
Registered User
(6/6/02 2:33 am)
Reply 		"pedestal sitters"
Should Always Have Monastic Leaders,

Quote:
Last minute idea: I suggest that we call Brother Davananada to lead us into this.... We can all support him to be our leader in YAH!



Where have i heard this before?
Should Free, this above is tongue in cheek.

So i have responded to your last minute idea, first.
_____

More seriously, you have composed an excellent seed posting.
i suggest some emphasis be given to the third order thoughts. A main menu item?

What is the root of the third order idea?

i believe this "third order" has value to many who wish continued association with yogananda as guru.

i believe this strongly, it would have served me years ago, and would serve many presently.

______________________

The continued association with yogananda as guru, is not for me.
My budding friendship with you as an individual is something i would value, is for me.

In, i think, "core issues" >>"guru revisited" is an entry by motlom >>"guru papers."

There is a clickable link in motlom's entry that takes us to a chapter from Guru Papers, have others read this?

Reading it has brought my attention to truths within it, and also has inspired my intuition to apply it to the experience of my generation

Howling with laughter
....those of us coming of age in the 'sixties " we might say
....those of us in this generation mentioned above
....had varying experiences of love and profound "turn on"
....guru papers calls it "oneness"
.....
Here are my feeling, overlayed on the strength of guru papers
..in ways similar to generations before and after us
..oneness experience, became considered MOST DESIREABLE
early generations has most "desireables" too, like a chicken in every pot, war(s) to end all wars
..even to the extent that the "possession" of this made one "rich"

Desiring the experience of "oneness"
..like every generation we have (i have) tried to buy it
..even tried to buy, having it all the time.
..to me it almost seemed that yogananda and then ammachi
~~were the "guru store" where i could buy "oneness"
~~with the coin of my love and meditations
__________________

now very strange things happened, year after year, and from
what i hear this happens to others..
i remained convinced from the hoary east that a satguru is necessary...the east has vast ideologies built around the guru/disciple relationship..
this ideology has millenium of existence, tradition and more,

the beatles went for it, a bit..
the whole peace movement turned to gandhi at times,
and for thousands of us, along came the AY and yogananda...

maybe a half million of us found gurus and sat down meditating and loving, for half our lives

i will qualify the loving..i loved yogananda..and loved myself for having a "path..yet i DID NOT love myself for the innumerable faults i have, for the body consciousness i have and for the lack of continual "oneness" or any "oneness."

now in departing from the guru/disciple relationship, i went to more quiet places in myself and in my friendships with those around me

we find ourselves in sweet berry patches of self acceptance and self love, thorns and all

IF it is of any value to any of you, we are freer of low self-esteem, and i mean this

now the nature of being, allows us to also unite ordinary and cosmic consciousness in one wholistic sane understanding

NOT conflicted in the reaching for cosmic consciousness, and abhorring ordinary consciousness, is a nurturing and caring love

not disdainful of those who presently operate with common sense and accepting "normal" lives, not as seekers, ~~~the harmony with all fellow people on earth is natural and very beneficial

what difference is there among people, that would be in the way of, seeing all those in our lives as teachers?
dahli lama talks in "transforming the mind" of seeing people in our lives as teachers

***as far as people such as yogananda and ammachi, they may not always enjoy the life of "pedestal sitters"***
~~the joy in welcoming them as forever "companions" in our life, is one hell a sweet experience with them
such happiness......such freedom from conditional love

...thank you deeply for listening to some of the many strange things happening

many, many experiences, miracles, and healing happen in direct association with people such as ammachi and yogananda
~~
in that chapter of "guru papers" this is discussed
even to the extent of telling the story of a false guru
who had a very, very devotional student
the student's devotion led the student to be able to walk on water.....the false guru so happy that obviously he could consider himself to be an incredible guru walked out on water and drowned

the discussion of experiences and miracles is complete and thorough the story above is incidental

i am not suggesting that either ammachi or yogananda are false gurus, i do have a hunch that miracles happened at their feet that resulted as much from an incredible flow of love within the devotee, a deep insistence from the devotee, for the attaining of deep needs
~~
also in the same chapter there appears to be a story that can be applied to srf
in a question period, the dahli lama and all there, listened to a woman tell the whole story of her broken heart and crushed feelings, in tears she talked of being in the buddhist faith, of the innumerable males in leadership, of ritual and ceremonies led by males, she talked and cried ad infinitum of this second class status as a woman
time came for the dahli lama to respond
***he put his face in his hands and cried***

now put us those suffering from srf treatment of householders and monastics into the woman's lengthy travail of woes,
and holy sh..., imagine the directors of srf putting their faces in their hands and cryin...

thanks again for readin any of this

_____

so a third order can serve many people,

_____

~~for me sitting in love and small meditation the evening of June 6th with a woman who has done so since before my birth, a woman who is just a "person" (happens to be my mother-in-law) and June 29th to sit in meditation with Nisarga, gardendiva and others.....then some light refreshments and potluck, for me these moments in peoples' home are "cosmic/ordinary/nurturing.

~~is my cup of tea

no third order, fourth dimension, religion of the new age
guru/disciple relationship for me

~~there are many flavors of tea and many tea parties, i encourage all to live as their heart leads, and thats what turns me on

Should Free,
the voice of the faithful
the profound need, and the timing is now, for the third order
your nine items and extensive thought are appreciated
and obviously drew a response from my core
the mounting of the third order will serve people worldwide
and might very well maintain a full presence here, and in
addition to here, would with time would have members,
activities, bodies of writings, service to larger society and
a website of its own, free of ramblings and inappropiate
topics such as i have introduced in this posting

Should Free, keep pouring forth, you have awoken many
reflections on life in me today, keep pouring forth, we are thirsty, you are a spring of hope and promise of fulfilment, that many of us in our dry times, are exceedingly grateful for, and in our times of ripening, we stand with you as trees in the orchard of community and friendship


soulcircle




Edited by: soulcircle at: 6/6/02 3:00:35 am
chrisparis
Registered User
(6/6/02 9:15 am)
Reply 		Re: "pedestal sitters"
I'm not sure why you would want a monastic to lead you into an organization for householders...

Should Free
Registered User
(6/7/02 2:15 am)
Reply
ezSupporter
 Praying for a strong, insightful, honest leader
Hi Soul Circle

I think your long inspired posting deserves much more attention than what I will be able to write today at this time of the day. You wrote many, many things that are interesting and valuable and reflect your process of personal development. Thanks very much for sharing.

you say:

<<<<i believe this [a third order of lay disciples] strongly, it would have served me years ago, and would serve many presently. The continued association with Yogananda as guru, is not for me.>>>

I share this situation and feelings with you. I could not lead a revolution or a third order in SRF, because I have simply drifted too far away from the SRF dogmas. I'm convinced also that to make the teachings and the organization safe for the next generations is a full time job, and I have my plate full. I'm willing to cooperate, however, and to help, or participate, exactly for the reason that you mention above -- “it would serve many presently.” No doubt that this is a very strong reason to support the creation of a "Loyal Opposing Third Order"

But we need a leader here -- a leader we can support and trust. That leader needs to have the time and enthusiasm to take the banner of the householder and fight for our cause. Such leader paradoxically, I suspect will come out of the monastics! And the reasons are practical and simple.

1) I'm sure their are many monks that would like to leave the ashram but they do not have anything worthwhile to do outside -- to make a living and to offer a creative service to humanity. Conversely, most of us householder have our plate full and we cannot get involved in such a full time adventure.

2) A monk like Devananda for example -- or a Mitrananda, or a Satyananda -- at this time has very valuable know how. They know how the organization works. They know its bureaucracy, power lines, and its main players. An ex-monk would be able to deal with the organization much more effectively.

3) A third advantage is that such monastics are leaders. A Devananda is a leader already. We householders are completely unknown by the devotees in general. And the very first priority of a "Loyal Opposing Third Order" will be to seek the support of the devotees all over the world and grow in number of members; and to get financial support. Only big numbers and pressure from the devotees all over will force SRF to listen.

The fact that Devananda or other monks are still monastics does not mean that they do not understand the householders' difficulties. I'm convinced that these monks and many others are quite aware of the problems being discussed here, and they agree that SRF needs to change. Nor it is a problem to stop being a monk and become a householder -- falling in love is quite easy, delightful and spiritual.

May be I'm wrong and God will provide a leader out of the householders group. But may be not, and it will come from the monastery. It does not matter really. What really matters here is to understand that we DO need a leader. And we need to be aware, and ready to support that leader -- ESPECIALLY WITH FINANCIAL RESOURCES SO THAT HE OR SHE CAN DO THE JOB.

I just want to end with this:

An organization is something too powerful to be influenced effectively by individuals. So the solution discussed here in this thread makes a lot of sense -- "we need to create an organization so strong that SRF will be forced to listen." That takes time, but if Master wants it, whether the BOD wants it or not is irrelevant. Our part is to be alert. We need to recognize that leader and provide support. And we can also pray for that leader to come -- strong, insightful, honest leader.



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