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Ringbearer7
Registered User
(2/4/03 8:05 pm)
Reply
Cirlce
Fancies flight or Astral7 SRF paid...
...SRF made
...SRF saved
...for his Astral flight (economy or business class) to Walrus land. Who can say?

And on this board how the poets love to dream and weave....

...but truth or fiction...which it is...I can't see

Departure time to others lands where sense is jumbled
and truth expands to imagination's fancy flight...that's our destination...

...no need for explanation
...perhaps too much 60's experimentation

Or maybe I just caught the wrong flight?












soulcircle
Registered User
(2/5/03 2:00 am)
Reply
have you read this one astral7
Guest, Astral7 and All,

Some of us wonder how much you have read on this walrus board and if you have read specific stories.

There is one post I am reading from Raja Regum from the menu item about helping SRF, the thread Sleepers Awake.

Here it is:

Quote:
Sleepers Awake!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A friend of mine once said that SRF is moving into its teenage years. For us, that means it is now time we learn how to become differentiated as individuals, to become aware of the ways in which we subject ourselves to the control of other limited human beings and use them as focal points on which our need-for-comfort fantasies can be projected. It is only natural in an imperfect world that we should be disappointed by our grandiose expectations. And the more idealisitic one is, the more one can become bitter upon recognition of unclean facts.

We all came to SRF for similar reasons. First, we were touched by many inner experiences and synchronistic events which made it clear that we had found a path back home. We recieved techniques and inspiration from our guru through an organization known as Self-Realization Fellowhip. Certainly many exisential needs were satisfied through what we've been given. And most of us, having a stupendous hunger for companionship (com pan = "to break bread with";) , found satisfaction the moment we stepped onto temple grounds and dicovered hundreds of people who thought just like us. SRF became the family we never had, the home we never had. And year after year, ministers reinforced that sentiment with the ubiquitous slogan: "SRF is your family."

And then we woke up, like a character in a Kafka story, only to discover we had left one dysfunctional family to join another. Should we be angry?

I'll speak for myself. Of course I'm angry. Thoroughly pissed to the core that SRF, whose expressed purpose is for consciousness-raising, is controlled by people who are committing the most unconscious acts of hurt against its own members. Naturally, I've had some exotic ranting sessions..."The dirty f#$@ bastards!!" etc. etc. When I left the organization, it felt refreshing to be on the outside because, quite honestly, I felt I had become an incurable social idiot due to my association with SRF. I had become a disowned self, fearful of the world (God's world) and mistrustful of mine or anyone else's humanity (God's creatures). Later I was to hear comparative horror stories such as we're reading on this site. My heart was broken. "How could I have given my life to this?" I thought.

Behind all its calculated postures and saccharine smiles, Mother Center is hiding a huge shadow. Make no mistake about it. Attention must be paid. Unless this shadow is brought into the light, many more lives will be used up and tossed away without remorse. Principles are at stake. Do you think you can thrive in an organization which teaches the Truth but doesn't practise what it preaches? Do you think you will get to God by supporting hypocrisy? Did Jesus support the well-intentioned Phillistines? This, my friends, is a call to duty. If you believe in principles, you cannot allow abuses in your spiritual familiy any more than you would in your government. The founding fathers of this country wouldn't tolerate it. Why should you?

Anger and bitterness are not the goal. But they can be wonderful emotional tools to rouse us from the perils of self-denial. You have every right to be upset with Mother Center. They are conducting their affairs like a medieval feudal kingdom while the rest of the civilized world is making an attempt to adjust to the 21st century Dwapara Yuga. Shame on us if we carry on pretending not to see it.

Our guru was not fond of organizations. He viewed them problematically but as necessary hubs where truthful ideas could be disseminated. He put a lot of work into getting this organization off the ground. We can serve it and nurture it as he did. But first we must drive the money-changers out as Jesus did in the Jerusalem Temple. We must demand a full accountability of how it spends its money and a full disclosure of who is in charge and what they're doing. Think of the dangers in 200 years if SRF does get bigger and there are no checks and balances. No checks and balances in the Dwapara Yuga! Inexcusable.

Are we fearful? In membership, the organization called SRF is a piece of sand on the cosmic beach. You only fear it because you have made it powerful in your own minds. Suppose they do blacklist people. Do you want to give your remaining life to an organization who would be treacherous to its members, who would consciously devalue the rational queries of its members? I suppose what we fear are law suits. Through legal hired guns, SRF is certainly capable making its "enemies" bleed through the spiritual eye. Which makes me wonder: how did Daya Mata ever become known as the "Mother of Compassion"?

Are you, a child of the Infinite, willing to subordinate that miraculous faculty of reason given to you by none other than God, to surrender your perceptions, your authenticity, and your uniqueness under the pretense and fantasy of being loyal? If you were truly loyal, you would not have the heart to watch the "child" of our Master's genius be distorted by a bunch of uneducated, sheltered nuns with samskaric tendencies towards ruling over and attracting people who wish to be infantilized under the pretense of obedience.

You don't fear the organization; you fear what life might be like if you finally shed your dependencies and had to face life with nothing but your faith and self-realized convictions.

This finally, I realized, is the true source of my anger: that I had betrayed my own perceptions and my own autonomy when I became an obediently unquestioning little devotee.
Reason is our greatest survival tool. Yet I surrendered my reason and my perceptions. I'm mad at myself for this more than I'm mad at SRF for being stuck in the mud of archetypal stupidity.

SRF is a fallible organization which needs serious correction. But so do most institutions. We've naively expected (and the PR reinforces it) that SRF should be an organization which flies in the face of worldly standards, a supposed bastion of the dawning spiritual age, and an example of right living for the rest of the world. In fact, though the spiritual message of our guru is very pure, in many ways SRF has become as petty and worldly as any other organization out there. They've maintained their image as perfect angels who can do no wrong, and most devotees I know want to hold onto this infantile fantasy for reasons God only knows why.

The organization, like a calculator, is there to help us do the math. It is not a substitute for our thinking. And if a calculator is creating errors, isn't it foolish to go on using it just because its all we've got? Here's what I think: We could chuck the calculator and solve all the problems by ourselves; or we could have the calculator repaired; or we could continue using the calculator and ignore the multitude of errors it proliferates.

Likewise, in SRF you have 3 choices:

1) Walk away. Live with God in your heart. Maybe meet up other ex-SRF'ers.

2) Stay with the organization. But demand full accountability from the Board of Directors.

3) Remain passive and live your sadhana as a bewildered simpleton.

Okay, my @#%$-and-moan session is over....and boy did it feel good. Love to all. Even to those f#$@ bastards at Mt. Washington who have spoiled my infantile dream of utopia on earth.

I leave you pondering the words of Ralph Waldo Emerson:

"Who is he that shall control me? Why may not I act and speak and write and think with entire freedom? What am I to the universe, or, the universe, what is it to me? Who hath forged the chains of wrong and right, of Opinion and Custom? And must I wear them?"


circle


soulcircle
Registered User
(2/5/03 2:34 am)
Reply
Ringbearer7
Guests, Ringbearer7 and All,

may the mischief never end

WOW Wonderful WOnderful Post Ringbearer7
I tip my hat to you, study your words and creativity

WOW, gotta love you and this board, WOW

~~~~

We are probably are among many who are concerned also about the diseases of fear and war in our world as one nobel peace prize winner said this week, the president of the U S A is a poor thinker and is on the verge of plunging the world into a holocaust.

Part of the beauty of our lives is that our heart prayers for a world always safe for children and flowers are joined with those around the world. With faith and unshakable hope that humaneness can rise above, and be more powerful than the darkness of nuclear horror.

In astral7 words there is a blissful beauty and innocence, yet the nuns and monks laying in their beds at night crying their hearts out, on a very personal level
.....or the first explosion of a nuclear bomb/s on a civilian center/s in 57 year

~~~~~will be the necessary

~~~~~~~~~~reality check~~~~~~~~~~~~`

my lies about tracking down the identity of these id's/people in here, my lies [if they missed the mark] about astral7 being on srf payroll, or being lauren Landress or someone, may be an early herald of some reality checks coming up in the near future

whether we see another 40 monastics leave or whether with Mandela, I watch a world screaming in nuclear fires, or whether we just:

dance in poetry
set free in fantasy

pray as starlight
vast and lighting never-ending cold and war-filled nights

whether we pray
in the form of a homeless new friend and shared meal each day

whether astral7 and I, in understanding and calm command
reach out and walk hand in hand

pray we will
with hope and faith....... our hearts with truth to fill

amidst love truth lies propaganda opposing viewpoints
amidst anger and community and pain and healing

we are in this together.......and Ringbearer7 what a cool post!

circle

chuckle chela
Registered User
(2/7/03 9:24 pm)
Reply
Re: Yo, Astral!
Astral7,

I do appreciate your lengthy response; thank you! But now, arrgghh!, I see you’ve gone and deleted it. Did you change your mind about what you wrote? Anyway, here is my response to what you wrote.

Regarding Sri Daya Mata: that there is a security element around her is, in itself, no evidence of any threat. It is evidence only of a perceived threat. That there is a significant difference between the two is one of my concerns when it comes to our spiritual community in SRF: I fear that we may perceive threats that may not be there, or which may be less than we imagine. The result of this is that we separate ourselves from those we perceive to be a threat, when it seems to me that we should rather be trying to reach out and understand. Case in point: the expansion plans at Mt. Washington. Master used to love to quote, as Sri Daya Mata herself tells us, “love and I drew a circle and drew others in.”

Please understand that I’m not advocating that we be naïve. We need to be aware that there are those who may not share our ideas. However, our ultimate aim—which should have a bearing on all our actions—must remain fellowship with all. This attitude (of fellowship, of reaching out) has a bearing on the wider discussion below; furthermore, it is an attitude that both Master and Daya Mata have espoused. It’s my hope we continue to do so, rather than rally the wagons in the face of some perceived threat. The security element that surrounds Daya Mata is, from what I gather from those I know who have worked on that detail, out of proportion to the actual need.

Onto the second part. I do not disagree with you about how some in these churches behave—that they teach the one, true way; that no one else has the truth; and so on. Still, though, I remain unconvinced that they are that much of a threat to SRF particularly or that Master’s message in particular is a threat to them. (Oh, you mentioned 4 religions: after Judaism, Christianity, and Islam what’s the 4th?)

Many followers of the orthodox, conservative factions of these religions are finding out for themselves the veracity of the claims of yoga: that God can be realized within by one’s own efforts. These members are either leaving their churches or making efforts to apply these teachings in the milieu of their own churches. I saw Catholic Church release expressing concern over the wide spread adoption of “new age” methods and teachings. What they don’t quite yet understand is that these methods work (at least some of them work), and their own members are proving it for themselves! These actions, typified by the Catholic Church release, are clearly rearguard actions by those who don’t quite realize they’ve already lost the “battle,” at least in this part of the world. Thomas Merton, Hans Kung, Leonardo Boff, Matthew Fox, Fr. Thomas Keating, and other Catholic theologians and monastics have already lead legions away from the traditional, conservative teachings of the Church.

The Churches are trying to remind people that they must believe thus and so; meanwhile, the parishioners are laughing as they walk out the doors, exclaiming, “Father, I don’t have to believe anything. I’ve seen and experienced the divinity of Christ within. See ya later!” Mirabai wrote a wonderful poem about this.

Why Mira Can’t Go Back to Her Old House

The colors of the Dark One have penetrated Mira’s body;
        all the other colors washed out.
Making love with the Dark One and eating little, those are
        my pearls and carnelians.
Meditation beads and the forehead streak, those are my
        scarves and my rings.
That’s enough feminine wiles for me.
My teacher taught me this.
Approve me or disapprove me: I praise the Mountain Energy
        night and day.
I take the path that ecstatic human beings have taken for centuries.
I don’t steal money, I don’t hit anyone.
What will you charge me with?
I have felt the swaying of the elephants’s shoulders;
And now you want me to climb on a jackass?
Try to be serious.

I suspect that while these churches perceive a threat to themselves from yoga and “new age” groups, there will be little direct threat to organizations such as SRF themselves.

Yes, Galileo suffered at the hands of the Inquisitors, but I don’t think such a fate is quite as likely in an age of virtually instant communication. Despite recanting, he whispered, “still, it moves.” Today such a whisper would be one heard around the world.

Thanks for your reply. If you have any time, I’d love to hear what you think about how SRF should react to the threats as you see them, if it should react at all.

For soulcircle: I haven’t been disappointed with Astral7’s response, although he has yet to say what SRF’s response should be (but that’s a fairly moot point). He has been courteous, thoughtful, and I didn’t see any sign of a lack of compassion. I don’t agree with some of the things he says in his various postings, but I’m more than willing to keep talking with him. I really don’t think he’s an official apologist for SRF or a gun for hire; he’s just an ardent believer in Mother Center, and he has a fondness for writing. We’re all a bit weird. As long as he’s willing to consider my point of view with respect, I’m willing to listen to and consider his. As I said, I disagree with him on some issues, and I have a suspicion he lacks a knowledge and understanding of what has been happening at Mother Center in the last few years, but I’m still willing to talk with him.





soulcircle
Registered User
(2/8/03 12:01 am)
Reply
perhaps
chela2020,

Does what i say above, quoted here:

Quote:

whether astral7 and I, in understanding and calm command
reach out and walk hand in hand


does this echo what you are saying?

perhaps....

circle

chela2020
Registered User
(2/8/03 4:04 am)
Reply
Re: perhaps
soul circle,

I didn't understand your posting to me.

chela2020
Registered User
(2/8/03 4:15 am)
Reply
Re: Yo, Astral!
chuckle chela,

I agree with your statement:
___________________________________________________
I haven’t been disappointed with Astral7’s response, although he has yet to say what SRF’s response should be (but that’s a fairly moot point). He has been courteous, thoughtful, and I didn’t see any sign of a lack of compassion. I don’t agree with some of the things he says in his various postings, but I’m more than willing to keep talking with him. I really don’t think he’s an official apologist for SRF or a gun for hire; he’s just an ardent believer in Mother Center, and he has a fondness for writing.
____________________________________________________

The only thing that I have found with astral's comments is that he/she does tend to put down other religions and gurus, and yet Yogananda has always taught us to respect all teachings and gurus. Even when we say the prayer quoting the line of gurus, we end it with "and gurus and saints of all religions, I bow to thee." I have never heard a real respresentative speak against other teachings, outside of just putting down other SRF splinter groups, which I don't agree with doing, but which may lead one to then begin putting all teachings down as inferior.


Edited by: chela2020 at: 2/8/03 4:27:53 am
chuckle chela
Registered User
(2/9/03 3:51 pm)
Reply
for chela2020
I wholeheartedly agree with you! I think it's important we remain respectful, regardless of whether we agree with another religious viewpoint. Different religious and spiritual paths for different temperments. Perhaps like you, one of the things that attracted me to Yogananda was his respect for all, and I love including the "saints of all religions" in our invocations and prayers. And one of the appealing aspects of the Autobiography is his inclusion of stories and precepts from a variety of faiths.

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