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Rosemarie7
Registered User
(2/26/03 9:11 am)
Reply 		Re: Letter to Bro Vishwananda
Just another thought....

Walrus doesn't get any respect from MC, maybe its because we hide behind pseudo names?

Rather than sending a 13 page letter what if we all sent our own letters with our real signatures?

To tell you the truth I'm considering setting up a counseling appointment with the minister of the temple I use to go to with my list of concerns. They're not going to send Flinn after any of us for voicing real concerns!

BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ like it would do any good! The purpose of this board is IMHO to make a transition of dependancy to standing on our own. If we think we can change SRF were just #&**&%$ in the wind. Or in pscho terms "bargaining".

The stages of grieving a loss: (as best I remember)

Denial
Anger
Bargaining
Acceptance

Sorry if I rained on your parade.

Sincerely,
Cathy Munn

Edited by: Rosemarie7 at: 2/27/03 10:12:18 pm
soulcircle
Registered User
(2/26/03 9:30 am)
Reply 		cool
I like the idea
Will let you know when I meet here in Richmond with one of the three...Deva...Atman...Jaya

chela2020
Registered User
(2/26/03 9:33 am)
Reply 		Re: Letter to Bro Vishwananda
Rosemarie,

I thought of that, but some people may not wish to reveal themselves. Some may still be in SRF.

I think it is a good idea that you are going to talk to the minister of the temple where you used to attend. I did the same, but the answers were so vague. Hopefully, you will not have this same problem.

I am sure that SRF knows who some of us are, and they have not done anything. Some people on this board have told very revealing stories, which would identify them providing the right people were monitoring the board.

I don't think that Mike Flynn is the orge that some think he is. I talked to him twice ver the phone about allegations that Nerode was making, and he is really friendly and informative. He will talk to any of the devotees who call him. Plus, I don't think that we are saying anything on this board to be sued for because we are just voicing our opinions and experiences. We do have freedom of speech. Even Pig Ma posted her real name. She has never been served by Mike Flynn.

And to me, it feels that those on Walrus really want things to be different in SRF.

soulcircle
Registered User
(2/26/03 9:39 am)
Reply 		stunned again
the attack dog is so friendly

chela2020
Registered User
(2/26/03 11:17 am)
Reply 		Re: Letter to Bro Vishwananda
Cathy,

You didn't rain on our parade. I doubt if many on this board expect SRF to change. I sure don't. But I do feel that it is part of a healing process. Just as it would be for you to talk to a minister at SRF. You would be disappointed probably, but at least you tried. And then you go on from there.

chela2020
Registered User
(2/26/03 11:27 am)
Reply 		Re: stunned again
Dear Stunned again,

I don't approve of SRF's taking Ananda to court, but I don't hold it against them. I don't hold it against Mike Flynn for being their lawyer. I just don't hold grudges. And perhaps Mike Flynn is an attack dog in court; still he is friendly outside of court. Remember he is human. We all are.

If you expect too much from an organization or any person, you will always be disappointed. This doesn't mean that I am condoning what SRF is doing, because while I don't expect too much, I expect a certain amount, and it is that amount that I expect that caused me to leave them.



Rosemarie7
Registered User
(2/26/03 11:32 am)
Reply 		Re: Letter to Bro Vishwananda
Chela2020

Yes, I agree!

I am speaking from my own disappointment. I don't mean to criticize the letter idea, healing will probably come out of it for all involved.

I'm tired, I've talked to closed minded ministers who talk in circles that reinforce their belief system. Yet I don't blame them, SRF is their whole life, their whole family and the last thing I want to do is break up somebody's belief system.

I just want OUT! The fact that I'm still posting means I have not set myself free: that I am not at a place of acceptance of the reality of things.

Cathy,
AKA Rosemarie7 & TheHolySinner

chela2020
Registered User
(2/26/03 12:11 pm)
Reply 		Re: Letter to Bro Vishwananda
Rosemarie aka Holy Sinner,

I think it is great that you don't blame them. It is rather crazy making when they talk in circles. I remember feeling the same way, and then I thought, "I am tired of this entire mess." I talked and talked to them for over a year, and it got me nowhere. I asked them questions about everything, and nothing they said satisfied my mind.

You are OUT. The very fact that you said you wanted out makes it so. Being on this board will not change that, because even though you are out, it takes time to heal. Like you said in your last post: "bargaining, then acceptance." Both take time.

And remember to take the good with you; leave the rest.








Rosemarie7
Registered User
(2/26/03 12:39 pm)
Reply 		Re: Letter to Bro Vishwananda
Chela2020

Thank You!

chela2020
Registered User
(2/26/03 12:40 pm)
Reply 		Re: Letter to Bro Vishwananda
You are welcome.

Did you get my two e-mails?

Rosemarie7
Registered User
(2/26/03 1:04 pm)
Reply 		Re: Letter to Bro Vishwananda
Chela2020,

Yes I did get both and sent you one. Looking forward to your reply.

Thank you,
Cathy

chela2020
Registered User
(2/26/03 1:35 pm)
Reply 		Re: Letter to Bro Vishwananda
I just posted the edited letter to Bro. Vishwananda on the other thread for all to see. Just one day to go.

soulcircle
Registered User
(2/26/03 3:32 pm)
Reply 		let's have a meaningful goal and result
Guests and All, :eek

Let's get an annual statement and realizing if we won't, underground or otherwise, let's move on beyond kindergarten

soulcircle

X Insider
Registered User
(2/26/03 8:58 pm)
Reply 		To Cathy
Thanks for articulating what I have been experiencing when I read the board lately. It seems this board is helping us to mourn the loss of an ideal, a dream. And the efforts to change SRF are indicative of the "bargaining" stage.
Anyone who has heard Mrinialini Mata give a talk to the monastics knows that SRF is happy to be SRF. Just like it is. It has no intentions of changing. And no need to. Nothing short of bankruptcy (very unlikely!) will change that.
But efforts by those here to write letters, talk to ministers, etc. may well help the individuals involved. I hope so and support you all in your efforts to be free and on your own again.

chuckle chela
Registered User
(2/26/03 10:09 pm)
Reply 		Re: Letter to Bro Vishwananda
Cathy, I have to agree with you about individuals sending letters. It would be more effective. But the Walrus letter is still worthwhile. I just suspect they will give it less attention and respect, simply because it originated with the Walrus.

I wrote letters, not because I was expecting SRF to change, but because I felt a moral obligation to tell them what I thought. I outlined the problems that I was aware of and offered some solutions. Having done that, I know I've done what little I can; with a clear conscience I can say "I tried to help."

The point you and X Insider made about SRF not being likely to change is so true, in my opinion. It became most clear to me after talking with one monastic after having written my letters. After that conversation it became clear to me that this monastic thought everything was just fine, that no change was needed, and that those who voiced concerns just didn't understand. When I told a friend of mine about the conversation, and added my opinion: "they're never going to change," my friend replied "those are the exact words one minister said to me a couple of months ago."

Have others come on board to add to the letter to Vishwananda? Doesn't seem so. The reason for that, I suspect, is that everyone knows it's not going to result in any changes.

One of the things that has hurt me is seeing how some of my SRF friends and I have "grown apart" in the recent past. I no longer think like they do; I no longer see the organization the way they do. While we are civil to each other, I now find that we are so different in a number of ways that I don't enjoy their company as I used to; I'm sure they feel the same way about me.

I've come to better appreciate what Sister Dhriti said when she left: "It's no longer possible for me to grow spiritually in this environment." Morally, psychologically, and spiritually, it's just not possible for me to remain a part of this.

Borg108
Registered User
(2/26/03 11:08 pm)
Reply 		Re: Letter to Bro Vishwananda
I hope I don't sound insensitive, but we do not have to feel we are helpless victims, mourning our loss (how can we lose something we never really had) with no options available to us now other than expressing our disappointment and frustration.

Yoganandaji is reported to have said that satanic forces will try to destroy the work he created. WHAT IF THOSE SATANIC FORCES ARE DEEP WITHIN SRF RIGHT NOW, rather than somewhere outside of it? What if they are the fundamentalist hardliners who have embraced the medieval monastic tradition that was developed during the time of the Inquisition and the Crusades, and is only slightly removed from hairshirts and self flagellation?

What if we are part of the vanguard meant to help establish the teachings of kriya along the lines it was meant to be? This may be through SRF, if it can adapt and survive, or it may be in other ways. If God is with us, then who can be against us? Be of good cheer.

Edited by: Borg108 at: 2/27/03 5:30:47 pm
chela2020
Registered User
(2/27/03 6:10 am)
Reply 		Re: Letter to Bro Vishwananda
SRF feels that anyone who complains, anyone who is on Walrus, is in delusion and in great need of psychotherapy. I was told as much, even about Walrus. So will they listen to us? No. Will they listen to anyone individual who complains? No. It is just my dharma to say how I feel, and having said it all in one letter, I will feel that I have done that duty. I will expect nothing from them. No letter, no change in policies, no real love, nothing.

Borg said it so perfectly. We are not victims. And Cathy, that was one other thing that the swami had said to me: "You are not a victim."

As for losing something I never had. Yes, I can agree with that, at least for myself. I never felt a part of SRF no matter how hard I tried. It was as if they had drawn a circle to shut me out, and I kept trying to draw a circle to take me in, but they kept erasing the chalk lines.

Edited by: chela2020 at: 2/27/03 9:47:48 am
Rosemarie7
Registered User
(2/27/03 12:18 pm)
Reply 		Re: Letter to Bro Vishwananda
Chela2020,

I love your imagery of the chalk circle. I never lost anything either, I only imagined I had something. The rain kept washing my chalk away, or was it my tears of disappointment.

It's been over a year and a half since my heart left SRF. I've bargained myself senseless, tried going back, but I just don't fit into their box. They don't need to change, I just need to move on and find my true spiritual home.

I support all involved in the letter. I've written my letters, argued with Brothers, who looked at me with disappointed eyes as if I were a lost lamb.

Well, I have one thing left to say to them BAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

Love to all of you,
Cathy Munn
AKA Rosemarie & TheHolySinner

Edited by: Rosemarie7 at: 2/27/03 12:24:46 pm
chela2020
Registered User
(2/27/03 2:14 pm)
Reply 		Re: Letter to Bro Vishwananda
Cathy,

Heretics and rebels are always lost sheep of the flock. That was a funny post.

The circle came from a poem I learned as a teenager in high school:

He drew a circle to shut me out
Heretic, rebel, a thing to flout.
But love and I had the wit to win
We drew a circle that took him in.

But who was the heretic and rebel in the poem? Me or him?

Rosemarie7
Registered User
(2/27/03 7:16 pm)
Reply 		Re: Letter to Bro Vishwananda
I hope I didn't murder a good thread!

Edited by: Rosemarie7 at: 2/28/03 10:30:41 am
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