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SRF Walrus > Messages to Mother Center > Letter to Bro Vishwananda
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chela2020 Registered User (2/23/03 4:36 am) Reply	Re: chela2020 and borg108 thank you soulcircle, The letter was already 10 pages long, what's another two? to All, Is there anything that you feel needs editing in any of the posts, including Raja's? Let me know. Also, I am sure that SRF monitors this website since they once asked someone to delete his message because it was pertaining to the Ben Erksine case. Why send a letter? Perhaps Bro. Vishwananda doesn't read Walrus, for one reason. Also, it collects all of our thoughts together and allows us to see what is really important in how we feel about SRF policies. After the letter is done, we should have Walrus transfer it to a separate thread. Anyway, those are my thoughts on it. Edited by: chela2020 at: 2/23/03 4:58:26 am
KS Registered User (2/23/03 7:06 am) Reply	Short History of SRF Feedback I applaud your efforts to provide some feedback to SRF. It is good for the people providing it and in many cases helps us recover. The nature of many real devotees of Master is one of positive action. SRF is not setup for people like that, but this effort is a very good thing. Walrus: Other things have been done, even inside SRF. In the early days of the Walrus a few monastics at mother center even participated in the board. That changed quickly as the leadership found out. Now several read it but have to subvert the leaders using dial up connections for access. What do they think of needing to do this? The Walrus provided some feedback to SRF in the early days. Mostly this was probably due to panic and control issues but today they have written it off. As with anything Ananda related, tagging something as Walrus related allows them to dismiss it. This board no longer provides any input into SRF. professional psychologist: Three years ago SRF brought in a professional psychologist to help them adjust the thinking of some of the monastics who were not getting with the program. The SRF leadership expected this psychologist to help them control the minds in the place. It didn’t occur to the bad ladies that this person might find problems with them and try to address them! She was of course terminated when she began to really help monastics deal with the abusive environment by understanding it. Spiritual Life Committees: The monastics also formed committees to try and deal with their environment. Again, the bad ladies expected these groups to be tools to help them control the monastics. The bad ladies whole mindset is control and subjugation and they are always looking for new tools. It did not occur to them that if you get a group of monastics together to work on improving things that they might talk about real problems. Since the source of the SRF problems is of course the leadership, this group was doomed and failed. We could go on and on about the efforts to provide the bad ladies with feedback. Letters by the hundreds have been written and internal ashram groups formed but all have failed. The SRF cult has built 50 years of defenses. The mass monastic exodus of 2 years ago was the result of those inside finally realizing the true nature of the place. As a senior monk said a few years ago, “No organization is more in need of Master’s teachings than SRF”. Vishwananda is a sad case. He is not a man of great intelligence but is a nice and calm man, very sincere in his desire to do the right thing and love God. The problem is that he fails the courage test. It is easy to fall back on easy answers during moral decision making and do the loyal thing. He constantly wimps out and avoids serious introspection and analysis by hiding behind what the bad ladies want. This is a crutch and he uses loyalty to hide and avoid serious issues. His boss, Daya Mata knows this and uses him to get things done. It is a sad thing. Others in his position who have seen her up close have left to tell the rest of us about it and we now know the truth about her! I hope you all do write letters. I hope you call and pass out literature and continue to post on the Walrus. For myself I have found it very helpful to participate and will probably continue to do so. Talking about the problems and taking the positive step of providing feedback to SRF helps the healing Edited by: KS at: 2/23/03 12:38:31 pm
soulcircle Registered User (2/23/03 8:46 am) Reply	KS Kind Soul, thoughtful and appreciated expression how many other will add a thank you here, along with mine? thank you kind soul soulcircle
chela2020 Registered User (2/23/03 1:42 pm) Reply	Re: KS To all, I talked with someone today about writing a letter such as this one, and I was told that we should not state anything as facts, but to say that these are our feelings and opinions, or else they would not listen. And if we attack, they will not listen. So we need to go over our letters and think about these things. As far as what happens to our letter when it reaches Bro. Vishwananda, we should not be attached to that, but to just leave it in God's hands. We have done the best we can. And that is my opinion. LOL. KS, Those are very good remarks. I wasn't sure if you meant for them to be in the letter, or were just voicing your opinion.
Borg108 Registered User (2/23/03 2:36 pm) Reply	Re: facts Some things are facts and shouldn't have problems being accepted as such, e.g., SRF does not publish fianancial statements. Perhaps what your writer friend meant was that opinions shouldn't be stated as facts, but should rather be prefaced with something like, "In my opinion..." or "It seems to me that..." I think it is good to keep in mind that others will be more receptive to us if we attack the issues rather than the people.
chela2020 Registered User (2/23/03 2:48 pm) Reply	Re: facts Borg: Yes, that is what he meant. If it is a fact, then it can be printed as a fact. Dear all, I sent the letter to Borg, and we are both edited it to make sure that we are not attacking. The original letter is still on this board on page 2. We will summit it to all to see if the editing is approved. Don't you wish that SRF would do the same?
soulcircle Registered User (2/23/03 10:51 pm) Reply	a true or false question for you Ronald Ronald, the question is did you lie more than once to the reporter? the quote is from pub78.ezboard.com/fsrfwal...=1&stop=20 see Musicman 12/3 *Quote:* What makes it worse is that the reporter was told repeatedly and insistently by Vishwananda that Faye lives at Mt. Washington. Only by pursuing his leads did he discover the truth. just the facts, soulcircle Edited by: soulcircle at: 2/23/03 10:54:10 pm
soulcircle Registered User (2/23/03 11:05 pm) Reply	as Vishwa/Ronald can not be expected to reply Guests and All as Ronald can not be expected to reply openly and to all inquires, we wonder we wonder how powerful he is how corrupted his words and actions are by power we wonder, and with no facts, isn't that all that we are left with what would i say and do in the midst of all that power, if i didn't find ways to keep things unstructured, open and warm as Jnanananda does in India. [We continue to try to get his autobigraphy out to all of you, perhaps we will get him help in getting the book a publisher for an English version.] chela2020 and Borg108 please include the following: Ronald, please consider giving us a forthright account of all you pursuits in relation to Ben Erskine. the quote is from pub78.ezboard.com/fsrfwal...=1&stop=20 see Musicman 12/3 *Quote:* Vishwananda, as you know or will learn, was the one handling the blood samples extracted from relatives in India and brought back for examination. I'd say he's someone not to be trusted. This whole situation is so corrupt, venal, degrading, and infuriating that I hardly know what to say. just the facts please, you will find Ronald, that we like you are human, and ask ourselves and you to come closer to a friendship that will benefit all, soulcircle Edited by: soulcircle at: 2/24/03 4:12:34 am
soulcircle Registered User (2/24/03 3:48 am) Reply	a second letter on one topic Guests and All, Has an updated version of the lessons been around for ten years (or longer)? Would a second letter to Ronald, solely on the lessons, give us some real focus, and respond to one of the most constant themes in here? Just one example follows from Witness (writing 12/4/01) in the thread: pub78.ezboard.com/fsrfwal...=1&stop=20 *Quote:* Is it hanky-panky or is it the most profound betrayal of trust imaginable? When a charismatic robe-wearing, silver-tongued spiritual leader not only claims that he is celibate, but requires his monastic disciples – and in essence invites the most devoted of his lay followers --to also give up physical intimacy, he has laid a powerful claim on their lives. (Check the Lessons, where he states that ideal householders would raise their children to be celibate.) And the ripples from that central commitment to celibacy extend to many,many areas of existence beyond the merely sexual, with profound emotional, social, psychological and physical consequences. These consequences are far better understood and written about now – at least in the West -- than they were in Yogananda’s day. But just cruising through the Walrus board gives one a pretty good idea of what it means for a man or woman to take a vow of celibacy, possibly for decades, and then end up in “the world” – that nasty place we were all supposed to avoid -- feeling betrayed, lied to, used, and abused. Not to mention being on the receiving end of the contemptuous disapproval of the above-it-all authority figures one was desperately trying to emulate, and the cold shoulders that are turned by a lot of “disappointed” lay members when the natural and healthy need for intimate human connection finally shakes one loose from the loopy thought that loving another person is somehow antithetical to “seeking God.” It is the discussion of sex, or absence of discussion that caught my attention here. Celibacy has been seen for the Roman Catholic church to be a horror for victims of the priests who themselves ( speaking of a large percent of them), seem what, almost destined to............... well we might put this, each in our own words........... we are in human bodies, we are many of us in America, a country which among other things is fueled by material wealth which we do consume. And this unending consumption is done in the midst of soft porn adds on TV, selling the a to z of products consumed and used, and the 1 to 100 of our possessions this is what our lives involve, and being on the spiritual path is what we do in this morass. speaking for myself, i am not some angel only confronted with warm clouds and blue heavens as I sing arias off-key so what about a second letter, with full inspection and discussion of issues with the lessons. a brain storming, where all are asked for comments, ALL comments welcome, before actual suggestins and proposals arise. also speaking for myself, I tremble at any "revised" lessons that may have been around for a decade that are the result of "ashram authoring." to repeat myself, without being guided by the needs and experiences of householders, "householder kriyabans," i have no interest in any "new" lessons. how about the rest of you? soulcircle Edited by: soulcircle at: 2/24/03 4:08:03 am
chela2020 Registered User (2/24/03 4:02 am) Reply	Re: a second letter on one topic soulcircle, Many of your comments are very good. I would like to add some things to what you said about Bro. Vishwananda's lying as to where Daya lived. Perhaps that was not a bad idea since the press would be at her door and devotees would be driving by and maybe stopping. I don't know her real reason. But as for the house, renunciation is not about being poor, but about not being attached to what you have whether you are rich or poor. As for lying. Here is a story that I heard recently: When Anne Frank was in hiding, the Gestapo knocked at the door of the man who was hiding her as well as other families. They asked him if he was hiding any Jews. Now this man was a religious man and didn't believe in lying. So should have he just said, Yes? Or was it okay for him to lie as he did by saying, No? On the other account as to handling the blood samples of Ben. Many questioned that, and so SRF had it taken entirely out of their hands by having someone else do the blood testing and having it video taped. Ben had his own lab work done. He and his lawyer went to a doctor and had samples taken. SRF wanted this test to hold up in any court of law, and it does. There should now be no question as to the validity of the test. DEAR ALL, Please read the letter which has been copied under this topic under FINISHED LETTER TO SWAMI VISHWANANDA. You may make all comments on it on this posting. We will mail it on the 1st of March so that others may check it out and see if there are any changes they wish to make. Thank you all for helping us and each other. Edited by: chela2020 at: 2/24/03 6:26:14 am
soulcircle Registered User (2/24/03 4:22 am) Reply	if i was allowed only one question..... Guests and All, If I was allowed only one question, and knew somehow that I would get a thoughtful, warm answer: I would wonder and ask: Is srf too big, not only too structured with no imput, but too big, and basically lacking individuals who are proving by their "cosmic consciousness," and all inclusive acceptance, openness and warmth, that this guru-disciple relationship is time-honored and works? soulcircle Edited by: soulcircle at: 2/24/03 8:59:35 am
soulcircle Registered User (2/24/03 9:03 am) Reply	stunned chela2020, you say: *Quote:* There should now be no question as to the validity of the test. too stunned to respond if this is typical of some of the more currently active participants on the board, you won't be hearing from me Edited by: soulcircle at: 2/24/03 9:04:38 am
Rosemarie7 Registered User (2/24/03 10:15 am) Reply	Re: Letter to Bro Vishwananda Dear Members, IN MY HUMBLE OPINION: I think the letter is a good idea, but way too long! It must me a collective letter, as Thomas Jefferson's voice was for The Declaration of Independence. My second thought is to state that Brother Vishwananda welcomes letters from members and NONmembers is enough to get the poor gye sent to India! Not to mention he has a lot to lose by representing us: it's too much to ask of him. So, just an Idea here...., but what if you sent the letter to everyone? Sent it to everyone from The Mata's, Satya, Vishwa, Hidden Valley and all the main centers and to the monks and nuns. One letter may end up in the shredder, but sending fifty or so will spread like leaflets from heaven or hell depending on their bent. I think we all agree that SRF is a business and nobody likes being told how to run their business, especially someone who thinks she is omniscient and Yogananda's channel! Also, I read the introduction to the letter, but found the long list of everbodys grievances too much. Keep in mind that I am sympathetic to the cause and one of you and I COULD NOT FINISH IT, how do you expect him to? As I scanned the letter I was able to read Username's list. {OOPS I MEAN PARABASTHA.} The sentences were short, to the point, covered the main issues without telling them in detail how to run their business. It seemed to me a reasonable list of requests to restore the truth of PY's works. And one last thing I would like to say that may not be approiate for the letter, but is my main pet grievance: Why must they pretend Yogananda is a God! If only they would accept him as a human being who made mistake so we wouldn't be stricken with so many conflects! Rosemarie, AKA TheHolySinner Edited by: Rosemarie7 at: 2/26/03 9:23:49 am
chela2020 Registered User (2/24/03 10:15 am) Reply	Re: stunned soulcircle, I would be interested in knowing why you believe that this last DNA test was not done properly, and why you believe that Yogananda was a womanizer. I really don't wish to make you angry, but were you not aware that SRF had the DNA test done again, not the one where Brother Vishwananda showed up at Ben's house, but one that was done by an expert in DNA testing in May of 2002? Or that Ben had a DNA test done independently from SRF with his attorney and doctor with him? We all questioned the first test, but why do you still question this last test? Accordingly, "Self-Realization Fellowship engaged the services of an outside attorney, formerly prosecutor for the San Diego County District Attorney's Office, to arrange independently for the genetic tests to be conducted. This attorney, a specialist with expertise in DNA testings, set up the new tests in a way that would qualify them for admittance as court evidence should that ever be necessary. He contracted two of the country's top genetic testing laboratories to handle the DNA testing and analysis (Genetic Technologies, Inc. of Glencoe, Missouri; and ReliaGene Technologies of New Orleans), under the supervision of an independent forensics specialist. The authencity and integrity of the entire project was guaranteed by this independent process, without SRF having to be an intermediary." If we don't believe these people, then all we can conclude is that they were paid off by SRF, and I don't believe that they would stoop to that. Edited by: chela2020 at: 2/24/03 10:17:59 am
Borg108 Registered User (2/24/03 11:11 am) Reply	Re: Letter to Bro Vishwananda Rosemarie7, Did you mean to say username's list? I couldn't find a list - only one suggestion. I think Bro Vishwananda has been given the duty of gathering input from others as part of his role now at SRF. I don't beleive it will cause him any trouble to receive this kind of information. If he is willing and able to do anything with it is a whole other matter. Your idea of getting a wider audience for the letter may be a very good one. Let's see what others think. As for the length of the letter, I agree it could be more concise and focused. But the question then is who among us really wants to take on the responsibility of editing out others' ideas? After all, we are not SRF. This is why chela 2020 has suggested that everyone try to self edit to include the most important issues as they see them. Those with a strong and long agenda of their own, like soulcircle perhaps, could write their own letter. The Declaration of Independence was easy to compose compared to what we are doing because it contained only one central issue, the right of self determination. SRF, by contrast, presents us with a whole hornet's nest of issues. If others feel the letter would be better by editing it down, perhaps a way to procede would be to make a list of all the issues as they have been pointed out in the submissions and then take a vote from everyone picking their top 4 or 5 to be included. That way we could end up with a dozen or so key issues. Some posting boards have a way of tallying votes. We'd have to check with Walrus to see if this is the case. On the other hand, it's kind of quaint and genuine to have everyone compose their own small parts of the letter to be included with minimal editing. This would be like the lectures/writings of Yoganandaji in the 1920s and 1930s, that had a more intimate feeling than the later, more edited ones. Edited by: Borg108 at: 2/24/03 11:30:59 am
chela2020 Registered User (2/24/03 11:39 am) Reply	Re: Letter to Bro Vishwananda Borg, Nice post. I think writing a 14-page letter would be no different than each of us writing him a letter, and his receiving several of those letters in one day. I like how the different people express themselves in various ways. And I like how soulcircle's poetic post ends the letter in a beautiful finale. If the letter is too much for Bro. Vishwananda, like a book, he can lay it down for a while. Anyway, that is my thought, and I appreciate your thoughts Rosemarie, because we had thought of them and played around with the idea too.
chuckle chela Registered User (2/24/03 9:48 pm) Reply	Re: Letter to Bro Vishwananda I think Rosemarie has a point. The letter could be shorter. I think, for example, that we could eliminate Raja Begum's post, because it's largely just expressing a point of view (it's a wonderful post, as are all of his, but I don't think it's really essential for the letter). My list could also be eliminated. Borg covered virtually all the same points. Regardless of what we choose to do, the essential things that Vishwananda needs to hear are (a) members are noticing problems, and (b) members are thinking about these problems and would like some changes. Beyond that, I don't think it matters what gets said. At this point, details aren't that important. Rosmarie's idea of sending letters to many monastics in all the ashrams is an interesting one. Can anyone tell us how well known, for example, the Walrus is among all the monastics? Or how many monastics are aware that a number of members are unhappy with the organization? There might be some value in trying to make the younger monastics aware that members have concerns, so that they will be mindful of this as they progress through the stages of training and gradually assume more responsibility. I think we need to keep in mind what KS said: there have been many serious attempts at change made by both monastics and members. For the most part, all of these have failed to reach their goals. I have one question. Is the number of monastics that have left in the last couple of years really up to 40? I thought it was about 30.
crogman1 Registered User (2/24/03 10:27 pm) Reply	Re: Letter to Bro Vishwananda All monastics, except maybe the new kids at ENC, are aware of the Walrus although probably only half have actually read a page or two. At outlying ashrams they use dial up connections to read some of it. Interest has decreased in the last year but it is still of some interest. SRF management has stopped reacting to it so it is not as interesting to anyone. While they were reacting there was some hope it would prompt them to make some changes but that hope has died. One reason the letter(s) might help is that it might stir up SRF management again. Any monastic in more than a few months has heard of the Walrus. Most all monastics know that members have complaints and are questioning things. If you have read the Walrus at all you should know the depth of despair even inside the ashram over the current culture. A lot of energy is spent in discussing that culture, ignoring it, trying to avoid it, and trying to survive it. These stories are nothing new to monastics. They know them all and more. I know of many myself that I have not posted because it would be too obvious who the innocent party was. Remember that most devotees outside the ashram that start to question things disappear. This leaves a culture of bliss bunnies around the temples as the serious devotees drift off.
chela2020 Registered User (2/25/03 9:32 am) Reply	Re: Letter to Bro Vishwananda chuckle chela, I deleted your post, but my feeling is that it was an excellent post, so would you mind if we just edited it so it would not be redundant, and then add the edited version back. Also deleted was Raja's posting. Yes, it is 40 monks and nuns. I have had that confirmed by many others. Rosemarie, I am sure that most in SRF have heard about Walrus by now. Many think it is a plot by Ananda. Many dismiss it as rantings of madmen, which I am sure causes many members to stay away. But I do know this, most lay members in SRF hear of the changes to Yogananda's teachings, because people at the temple do talk--not most, but enough so that sooner or later, every has heard of these matters. As for myself, I don't expect any changes to occur in SRF because of this letter or even because 40 monastics left. SRF attracts a lot of people, and so to me it is like taking a cruise ship, getting off on an island to explore, maybe staying or maybe getting back on that ship. And so there will always be cruise ships stopping at the Port of SRF. Edited by: chela2020 at: 2/25/03 9:35:54 am
chuckle chela Registered User (2/25/03 9:54 pm) Reply	Re: Letter to Bro Vishwananda Crog, thanks for the info about the monastics knowing about the Walrus; I almost figured they'd know (given how things get spread around like wildfire in the SRF community), but I wasn't sure. I had thought that if a number weren't aware, then it might be worth sending copies of the Vishwananda letter to them. chela2020, thanks for confirming the "40 have left the ashram" number. Please feel free to edit my FOR post any way you see fit. I merely suggested eliminating it to help shorten the letter. It will be interesting to see if the Walrus email sent out will attract much interest in adding to the letter.

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