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Never Again
Unregistered User
(12/8/01 11:59 pm)
Reply 		New Temple
- Lake Shrine, New Temple ground breaking ceremony. Every body (lay disciples) was invited.

A few months before the consecration, plans were on the way to have a public ceremony, where monastics and lay disciples would enjoy the official opening, and consecration of this beautiful temple. I heard and seen those plans.

BOD decided to have a private and secret consecration ceremony. (If any body knows why this change, please let us know). Only monastics and a few "celebrities" were in the temple .

In her speech, Mrinalini Mata emphasize so much that "we have to thank so much to all of you (monastics)", "it is because of you", "that we were able to build this beautiful temple".

No mention of lay disciples helping raising the money or working for so many months, to build the new temple.
Many lay disciples were disappointed for not been able to participate in the consecration ceremony.

KS
Registered User
(12/9/01 1:33 am)
Reply 		Attendance
The invite list was probably changed because a mata was going to be there. I am just guessing. They don't like to have to be with members and would make a decision like this.

Of course they didn't thank the members. It is THEY THEY THEY that do everything.

XFreeLabor
Unregistered User
(12/17/01 5:28 pm)
Reply 		Lay members treatment
I just found out that Br. Miles left the ashram, some time in July this year.

I had the opportunity of interacting and working with him at Lake Shrine, during the construction of the new temple. He was in charge of "The Lake Shrine Project". I also witnessed his work and relationship with lay members.

He was a gentleman, very respectful, and there was always harmony when working with him. He made us feel welcomed.

I heard from lay members, in various committees, that it was a nice experience serving at Lake Shrine, working with him. He always asked for things in a nice, correct, respectful, and NO PHONY way. Lay members never felt that they were inferior, less important, or the "free labor" people, like other monastics make lay members feel when they work with them.

Devotees at Lake Shrine noticed the aforementioned even more, because of the contrast with LS "management". (Some) Monks in charge at LS ("management"), treat you very well while they need something from you, whether for the temple or personal, or until construction of new temple was completed. If they do not need you any longer, and/or you are not a celebrity (wealthy, famous actor, singer, screenwriter, or movie business related), they ignore you.

If you think or reason, and/or disagree with them, they use the "slow down technique" (see: SlowDown - Gita delayed due to Politics - 9/6/01), and push you aside. If you don't quit, they fire you, as I saw it many times at the Lake, in various committees.

My point is just to present these sad and plain facts: LS "management" is cut with the same knife (or cookie cutter ?!?!), and uses the same unspiritual ways, as Mother Center. Not even in the business world I had experienced such feeling of being used and abused as a "free labor people" ( see: S - Specifics - 8/4/01), micromanagement (doing things behind committee leaders' backs), treated as ignorant or/and less worth, etc, etc, etc.

I am still in shock to confirm through this board my own experience in LS, the sneaky-unspiritual ways, Mother Center uses towards lay members, monastics, and others.

To be continued...

Carol
Unregistered User
(12/26/01 5:19 pm)
Reply 		Misspend money in LS
There is a saying:
"Clear accounting, preserves friendship"

And that accounting is not only money. But when in a friendship relationship, material things are not handle properly (secrecy, etc.), what can you expect from mental and spiritual relationship?

As many of you know, each temple has different committees that handle most of the work/activities needed at the temples.

About three months before the LS 50th Anniversary, event organizers contacted the LS sound committee, to ask them if they could handle sound and video for that event. The sound committee response was affirmative. They even probed it, before monks, organizers, and other important people, in a formal sound/video check, one evening at LS.

I understand, the LS sound committee gave a budget of about $4,000 max, for the rental and purchasing of audio/video equipment for the 50th anniversary event.

Brother in charge, and head of organizing committee, for unknown reasons (secret again), gave the job to an outside consultant, and an audio/video company. Monks from mother center, LS people long time involved in audio/video matters (not members of sound committee), also supported that decision.

LS expended more than $20,000 (about $30,000), for the event: in consultants, renting equipment, and audio/video services. $16,000 plus more than LS sound committee would had spent.

Lay members from LS sound committee were very disappointed, and upset for that decision, for such amount of money wasted, and for not using the committees' capabilities.

After all the 100's of thousand misspend by Mother Center in lawyers, consultants, lawsuits, etc., this is nothing. But the principle is the same: it does not look good at all. Besides, lay members were treated like doormats: after use them, they are discarded, and tossed to the trashcan.

XFreeLabor
Unregistered User
(12/27/01 11:35 am)
Reply 		To Carol/Money misspend in LS
Very well put!!

I remember people talking about this controversial decision, but I didn't know that many details.

Knowing this, how come LS monks are constantly asking for help, so they can get the job done by lay members (and save money), and they also misspend money in that way? Why pay such amount of money to outside consultants if it could've been done by lay members? Why SRF give us the message they are poor, so we have to manage in a very tight-low budget, and then expend money in unnecessary things?

I have no answer. Do any of you?

IRS
Unregistered User
(12/27/01 12:23 pm)
Reply 		Something's fishy
SRF may be doing favors for outside friends. It's probable an open investigation on how SRF spends its money could lead to a termination of its non-profit status. In the meantime, I would suggest persuading members to terminate all forms of financial support. They seem to have enough money to pay expensive lawyers and consultants, so use your money for your children and/or self.

AumBoy
Registered User
(12/27/01 4:19 pm)
Reply 		VL appeal and other matters...
Carol, thanks for the enlightening information. You're not alone. I know of projects estimated in the low 5 figures that within a week or 2 of execution jumped to the low 6 figures. Ok. I apologize. That was an exaggeration. It was less than a week.

This is a little perturbing for me. So many members want so much to give to SRF and they get a kick in the butt in return. Some friends of mine would describe this as "training." Others say that they (meaning the renunciants) aren't supposed to know how to spend money correctly. Duh! So why don't they ask for help from their "family members"? SRF tells employee friends of mine that they have no money for raises. Hmmmmm? They're only getting $9 or $10 per hour? There is a quote somewhere on this board to the effect that "there will always be devotees". Yes, true, and "there will always be dirt under my feet" while I'm on this planet. Is SRF counting on people with low self-esteem and low self-worth to be the core of volunteers? That is ludicrous.

Or maybe I don't have the right perspective. It's training. (Insert music jingle here-> and with a deep melodious voice say: ) "Yes, it's training. Simply do your best for God, do your best for SRF. And then wait to be ignored, overlooked, or unappreciated! Learn to let go of the fruits of action. But don't try this at home, folks. It won't work. That's the wrong family to experiment in. This only works in SRF because 'there will always be devotees.'"

Am I missing something here? If we treat our friends and immediate family like some of us and others have been treated by SRF, how long would the family last?

On Monday, I received the VL Newsletter and Appeal. One paragraph says:
Quote:
In this special issue of our newsletter, we want to share with you some of the ways in which Self-Realization Fellowship and its members have been contributing to the spiritual and humanitarian efforts so needed now to bring healing and positive change to our world family.
And then another quote:
Quote:
The outpouring of love and support, in phone calles and correspondence to the New York Center from all the Centers and members around the world, is very special. It has made me understand in a deeper way how we all really are a family. Jai Guru!


Question: Which family? Is this the perfect family we have in our minds that we project onto SRF? Is this the same "family" that recently told an ex-nun to not come asking for money? The same family that coerces those leaving to sign a non-disclosure agreement and then ignores them for the most part? Which family?

So I'm really wondering about where exactly my donations go. Can anyone tell me? Exactly what percentage of my donations go where? The Red Cross ran into trouble after the 9/11 attack. They collected $562 million dollars? They were forced to close the fund after questions arose as to how it would be spent. It was learned that not all the money would go to the victims. Part of the money was designated for future projects internal to the Red Cross.

So, I have a question for SRF: Where is this donation going? Is it going to spread the work? (I'm well aware that those in spanish-speaking countries can get the Lessons for free.) Is it going towards that? Is it going to help defray legal expenses? Is is going to pay PeopleSoft consultants? Is it going to improve the quality of live of the monastics? Is it going to cover the cost of the accounting package? Is it going to donate to the Walrus?! Is it going to help give the employees, who were told SRF does not have money, raises? I would donate for that at this point, but I'm really sorry SRF, without accountability (no pun intended), without knowing what SRF intends to do with the money, I am really averse to simply giving you what little money I have.

Years ago, a friend of mine (who is in SRF and owns her own business) told me that Bill Gates gives to charities, too. But he treats it like a business decision. He doesn't say, 'I'm a billionaire, who needs money today?' He looks at the charities and looks at what they're doing and then donates.

So, please help me understand where the money is going? Is there, like, a report that can be produced (eventually) from the accouting package without too many consultant hours?
I'm simply asking a business question regarding accountabilty.
What percentage is going for, say, food? Utilities? Legal Fees? Software? Etc., etc., etc.

Geo Prism
Unregistered User
(12/27/01 9:23 pm)
Reply 		VL appeal and other matters...
Quote:
"So, please help me understand where the money is going? Is there, like, a report that can be produced (eventually) from the accouting package without too many consultant hours?
I'm simply asking a business question regarding accountabilty.
What percentage is going for, say, food? Utilities? Legal Fees? Software? Etc., etc., etc. "


Those are great questions that demands real answers. I would have thought (if I didnot know better) that the answers to these questions would be a source of great pride to SRF. Now I wonder.

Geo

PostMonk
Unregistered User
(12/28/01 10:31 pm)
Reply 		Show me the money
AumBoy,

The money is going to whatever the Matas want, not what they say or what ethics would require. They live in luxury and self-righteous arrogance while kind-hearted devotees sacrifice their own well-beings to send money. It will NEVER change. And they will NEVER do a fair and open disclosure of SRF's finances because that would reveal the truth and the truth is what they fear the most. It would destroy them. Truth, to SRF's management, is as light to a vampire.

They do throw a few financial scraps here and there so that they can point to something. But they are only crumbs for the PR people to use.

chuckle
Unregistered User
(12/29/01 12:45 pm)
Reply 		VL Appeal
Postmonk, I hope you're wrong that things will never change. But if things are going to change it is going to take a massive drop in donations to make this happen. My husband and I stopped giving money to Mother Center about a year ago, and I would encourage others to do the same. We need accountability. My fear is that even if many devotees stop donating funds, there will still be money coming in from a relatively small number of well-heeled donors who are well treated by Mother Center.

Carol's story from the LS anniversary shows up three glaring faults: lack of financial accountability and an organizational structure that fails to follow even rudimentary standards of behavior, such as having the monk work with the A/V committee instead of going over their heads. The third fault is that there are no mechanisms in place to allow feedback and critiquing. It seems that complaints are dealt with by issuing the now-infamous "it's all training." This is chilling.

Postmonk, I agree wholeheartedly with your comments about kind-hearted devotees making sacrifices to be generous. I know a devotee who is a single mom living on a small income who regularly gives more than she can really afford to SRF. We've tried to suggest that she should save the money for herself and her young son, but she is adamant. I often think of her when I hear of these financial irregularities within SRF, and it burns me up to think that her money is being wasted and misused.

Aumboy, you may well be right that SRF is hoping to rely on devotees with low self-esteem to contribute time, effort, and money in the hopes of receiving tidbits of validation. Indeed, it appears that the whole system or culture in SRF is unconsciously set up to ensure that this will happen--as several discussions on this board have attested. Chilling.

So many spiritual organizations today consider that it goes without saying that they must demonstrate financial accountability to their members and the public at large. That SRF, in its isolationist stance, ignores this is further testimony to how out of step SRF is with the realities of modern life.

If there is any chance of changing things in SRF, it seems to me that it will have to begin with us all stopping our donations. Conferences, letters, etc. etc., while necessary at some point, are not going to get their attention. A massive drop in donations might. Then we can begin talking with them about the entire SRF culture and what needs to change.

Aumboy, SRF can easily produce financial documents. They have to generate income statements and balance sheets all the time, and they have to produce these regularly--one presumes--to satisfy the IRS that they continue to meet the requirements for non-profit organizations. It would be interesting to know what criteria the IRS and the Calif. Franchise Board require; I guess they don't care if a non-profit org. squanders its money, as long as they're not generating a profit for themselves.

KS
Registered User
(1/3/02 9:12 pm)
Reply 		When will it change --- PostMonk
Postmonk has a good point, it will not change soon. There is no reason for it to change. 3000 devotees show up for Convocation and feel the bad ladies are the Guru's own light and wisdom, they are perfect. We heard it from Vishwananda this year, the right people are in charge. (They are just old fashioned, that is why they appear to be doing weird stuff)

There is no pressure for the bad ladies to change. Criticism is fairly confined and they have continued to throttle those who disagree with them. They even have monastics who leave sign something that they will not talk about the inside life ---- in exchange for the money the monastic needs to survive!

A disgrace.

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