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soulcircle
Registered User
(11/7/03 9:17 am)
Reply 		Hidden Valley saved from fire
asap i will post the story of hidden valley and pictures that my wife received in an email, well i think i can type it into here without to many typos......the pics that i will try [maybe someone more savvy can post them]
everywhere!!!!!!!! around hidden valley ashes
hidden valley untouched

here's what came via email to my wife:

Hi,

We're fine, the fire came to within about 10 miles of Encinitas. There were three days that ash and soot fell on us non-stop and a day of strong odor of smoke. In all minor inconveniences compared to the overall devastastion.

The road to Hidden Valley is a ghastly sight. So much is burned to the ground. But, as you know, miracles abound wherever SRF is involved. The newspaper printed a graphically detailed map of the Paradise fire. In it you see Lake Wohlford and directly to the east there's a very small area in white. The surrounding area is shaded gray indicating fire damage. Well, the tiny white area is Hidden Valley.

As the story goes, sheriff and fire officials encouraged SRF to evacuate several times and told the ministers in charge that the facility was certain to perish. They said with the location of trailers and cabins beneath dry oak trees the entire ashram would be destroyed.

Br. Bimilananda stood at the lawn outside the refrectory for over four hours chanting Om toward the fire. At times there were as few as 4 others and as many as 15 chanting with him. This huge wall of flames comes over the rise (where the long horn cattle graze), roaring toward the ashram grounds. As it nears the dirt road where the ashram property begins, the fire just dies out. According to Br. Dharmananda, Br. B saved Hidden Valley [people were saying OM for H.V. around the world]. I've seen first hand the devastation out there- the survival of Hidden Valley can only be desribed as a miracle.

God Bless

Edited by: srfwalrus at: 11/9/03 11:58 am
etzchaim
Registered User
(11/7/03 9:32 am)
Reply 		Re: are the teachings good
"As it nears the dirt road where the ashram property begins, the fire just dies out."

The way to stop a fire is to clear an area down to the dirt, removing anything flamable, in a line across the width of the fire. I've done this myself in small fires in the woods I used to live in. It works like a charm, or a chant, and is often used by fire fighters.
I'm glad no one at Hidden Valley was hurt and nothing was damaged, but there isn't really a miracle here. Usually fires of this size spread too fast to have anything like this be very effective, and fire can blow across a dirt line or travel across the tops of trees, but apparently that didn't happen here, thank God.

Etz, manic myth dispeller

OneTaste
Registered User
(11/7/03 11:53 am)
Reply 		dispelling your dispelling
Quote:
Etz, manic myth dispeller

Uh, etz, it's my guess (and correct me if I'm wrong) that you've never been to HV.

Your gist is: I've done this clearing thing with little fires, as have firefighters, and it works. So, there's no miracle here, although my suggested solution wouldn't really work on a fire this size, but apparently(?!) HV didn't burn up, so myth dispelled.

Etz, that fire jumped US 15, a ten lane superhighway, without slowing down a lick. It would have had no trouble at all making it over the not even two lane dirt road at HV, especially driven by those Santa Ana winds. Anyone who's been there knows what a tinder box the place is at that time of year. As soon as I heard where the fire had started and where it was going, my first thought was that HV was, er, toast.

I don't know if it was a miracle or not, but to offer such a rank dismissal based on reasoning you yourself admit doesn't hold is odd at best.

Like you asked me recently, where's that coming from?

Uh, sorry to hear you are manic. I can relate. ;)

etzchaim
Registered User
(11/7/03 12:43 pm)
Reply 		Re: dispelling your dispelling
Just making a suggestion that something else might have contributed to the fire stopping. I'm not a big believer in the idea that chanting OM can stop fires, but hey, mabe it did. There's just so much of this mystifying of things coming out of SRF that I got suspicious.

I'm in Michigan, and while I've been listening to the news reports and feeling really bad about all the people losing their homes and all their possessions, I don't own a TV, so I haven't seen it. I usually turn the radio off because I get too emotional.

I've been in the midwest all my life, so, no, I don't have a whole lot experience with dry climates, just tornadoes and blizzards.

Sorry to offend you. You obviously feel very strongly about this being a supernatural event. I tend to like a healthy dose of skepticism, though. Most phenomena can be explained in rational terms, not that I don't believe that prayer works, and that miracles don't happen, just not as frequently as people often like to think.

If Hidden Valley is indeed in a valley, that would have an effect on it as well. Winds don't blow as strongly in valley's as they would elsewhere. I don't know exactly when this happened but the fire may have been dying out by that time as well and so the effects of all things involved might just have done it.

Like I said, I'm very glad that no one was hurt and that there wasn't any damage. Many, many other people have lost homes and everything they own, and that is really upsetting. It's too bad the 'miracle' couldn't have extended beyond Hidden Valley. Hopefully the people at Hidden Valley will be able to help out their neighbors.

Etz, sort of unrepentant, still manic (we all have personalities, y'know)

Edited by: etzchaim at: 11/7/03 1:12 pm
etzchaim
Registered User
(11/7/03 12:48 pm)
Reply 		Re: dispelling your dispelling
I sure do think I'm having a reaction to what appears to be SRF's constant tendency to paint itself in terms of Divine guidance, rightness and protection all the time. I think it was this line "But, as you know, miracles abound wherever SRF is involved." that set me off. This is probably the result of that more than anything. I'll work on overcoming the problem within myself.

I wouldn't have lasted long at SRF, this I know without having to have been there. I'm really glad those seeds that Yogananda planted sprouted elsewhere.

Edited by: etzchaim at: 11/7/03 1:06 pm
ranger20
Registered User
(11/7/03 3:24 pm)
Reply 		Re: dispelling your dispelling
These are two photos of eight posted on www.yogananda.net. Indication is of a decent, pre-established firebreak they were trying to re-inforce and keep wet. The fact that physical effort and prayer/chanting somehow "worked," does not to me, detract from belief in the power of either one.


www.yogananda.net/cgi-bin...2&v=2&gV=0

www.yogananda.net/cgi-bin...2&v=2&gV=0

OneTaste
Registered User
(11/7/03 3:35 pm)
Reply 		Re: dispelling your dispelling
Quote:
Sorry to offend you. You obviously feel very strongly about this being a supernatural event.


Uh, whoa, etz. Slow down a bit, huh? I thought the words “I don't know if it was a miracle or not” were a pretty clear indication of where I stood on the matter. I’ve no idea and don’t do much trading in such, anyway. That wasn't the issue for me. Like I said, what struck me was the quickness to dismiss, and the smugness of it, when it was clear you had no idea what you were talking about given the specific situation.

Quote:
Just making a suggestion that something else might have contributed to the fire stopping.


Now, this would be fine, but there just isn’t any “maybe” involved in your previous post.
Quote:
I tend to like a healthy dose of skepticism, though. Most phenomena can be explained in rational terms, not that I don't believe that prayer works, and that miracles don't happen, just not as frequently as people often like to think.


I’m on your side here. And I wouldn’t be surprised if my dose of skepticism was a bit beyond healthy. My eyes are constantly rolling when the miraculous talk and the supernatural and past life talk comes in.

Quote:
If Hidden Valley is indeed in a valley, that would have an effect on it as well. Winds don't blow as strongly in valley's as they would elsewhere. I don't know exactly when this happened but the fire may have been dying out by that time as well and so the effects of all things involved might just have done it.


Ya see, like you said, you don’t have experience with the area. If you did, you would realize how clueless this sounds. Add in the “certainty” with which you spoke, and that’s what I found unsettling. Still, I wouldn’t have said anything except that having lived there and having been worried that it got torched, well, it left a bad taste in my mouth.

Quote:
I sure do think I'm having a reaction to what appears to be SRF's constant tendency to paint itself in terms of Divine guidance, rightness and protection all the time. I think it was this line "But, as you know, miracles abound wherever SRF is involved." that set me off. This is probably the result of that more than anything. I'll work on overcoming the problem within myself.


Hey, the very same set off my sanctimonotony meter big time. And they are laying it on with a trowel over on the bliss-bunny board. Maybe it was that their instant assumption that it was miraculous coincided with your instant assertion that it wasn’t that left me spinning.

Again, I have no idea whether it was a miracle and don't care. What I do care about and love is the idea of Bimilananda out there, all 4'8" and 82 years old, taking on a firestorm.

If you knew him, you’d know how just exactly perfect an image this is! Without doubt the most guileless and beautiful soul I’ve crossed paths with in this lifetime. This is the most touching and affirming thing I've heard in quite a while.

OneTaste
Registered User
(11/7/03 4:58 pm)
Reply 		upon further review
Quote:
Indication is of a decent, pre-established firebreak they were trying to re-inforce and keep wet. The fact that physical effort and prayer/chanting somehow "worked," does not to me, detract from belief in the power of either one.


ok, having seen all of the pictures, especially the one of the aftermath behind where I used to live, I can't figure out any reason why it just stopped. unlike the pictures you posted, ranger, there isn't any firebreak back there and you can see that the range behind is 100 % destroyed.

I will admit I have some heavy duty chills right now and don't know what to think.

username
Registered User
(11/7/03 9:43 pm)
Reply 		Re: upon further review
Could someone call the San Diego Fire department and ask their side of the story? (without telling them that it is a miracle... just let them explain why the fire changed directions)

ranger20
Registered User
(11/8/03 9:45 pm)
Reply 		Re: upon further review
I've never been to HV, so I just grabbed two dramatic photos from the Bliss Bunny Board. Even with the "break" visible, I'm aware that the dried grass pictured is like tinder. Drove over Pacheco Pass a week ago and saw blackened acres from a grass fire that swept through 2 years ago.

I first saw Bro. Bimilananda at my first Convo at the Biltmore 20+ years ago, and I remember just standing at the edge of the group crowded around him. He was mostly just listening, nodding, and smiling, and some 10 minutes later, when I walked away, I noticed my jaw actually hurt, because I'd been smiling so widely. That simply does not happen to me - I'm one of those people who would probably benefit by smile practice before a mirror.

Except it happened again last summer, just enjoying Bimilananda's presence. He strikes me as perhaps the most joy-filled being I can remember.

chela2020
Registered User
(11/9/03 5:14 am)
Reply 		Re: upon further review
Miracles are something that cannot really be proven. They happen everyday. The fire department would not be able to explain it unless they put out the fire themselves. We must remember that Yogananda has not and never will leave those who love them no matter what type of mistakes they make in life. I do feel that those in SRF have a love for God, and "love covers a multitude of sins."

username
Registered User
(11/9/03 7:09 am)
Reply 		Re: upon further review
That is why someone should call the fire department and ask them why the fire changed directions. If they have an explanantion THERE IS NO MIRACLE and the claim is just more SRF bs.

srfwalrus
ezOP
(11/9/03 11:58 am)
Reply
Re: upon further review
We can easily believe God stopped the fire to save Brother B. Saving HV is quite a bit harder to believe. Fortunately for SRF in order to save Brother B God had to save HV.

username
Registered User
(11/9/03 1:25 pm)
Reply 		Re: upon further review
There was a bomb explosion. He emerged with a triumphant smile.."I have been saved. Destiny has chosen me, providence has preserved me. It is a sign that I must see my mission through to the end"
July 20, 1944

And then he thought he would not be prevented from carrying out his mission. And the incident made him even more certain that he was on the right path.

The man was a vegetarian... can you determine who it is....

stermejo
Registered User
(11/9/03 2:11 pm)
Reply 		EZ
Sure, but this being an anniversary of Krystal Nacht, I refuse to reprint the name of the man who emerged unscathed from an attempted coup in which one of the plotters was Field Marshall Rommell.

Borg108
Registered User
(11/10/03 3:43 am)
Reply 		Re: who it is
If the person in question rose from humble beginnings, exuded tremendous personal magnetism, had a second in command who fled the country in the middle of the night, and built up an enormous empire while being adored and venerated by millions, then I know who it is -- Mata Amritanadamayi, AKA Ammachi. But I don't think the attempt on her life when she was young was due to an explosion, and I don't see how Rommell had anything to do with it. Otherwise, it all fits.

Ammachi has said on several occassions that she was Yogananda in her prior life, but I think it is far more likely she was formally another, more ambitious, charismatic leader who passed on a few years before Yogananda.

etzchaim
Registered User
(11/10/03 8:13 am)
Reply 		Re: upon further review
Username, you echoed my thoughts. The same man, yimach sh'mo, ran through the middle of active battles during WWI to deliver messages and never once was even hit with shrapnel, let alone a bullet. He is known to have said that he was being protected for a great destiny.

It is the self-glorification on the part of SRF that I find so offensive.

One Taste, I have a tendency to present whatever I'm saying as if it is solid fact, but I know from experience that I may indeed have no clue about what I'm saying...:\ Good thing I've developed a sense of humor about my personality and beliefs. My gut reaction may have simply been an attempt to balance out the 'glorification' coming from headquarters. There are too many people, like the above not-nameable person, who also experienced 'miracles' but do not in any way fall into the category of 'saint', for me to take it all so seriously.

However, Brother B. sounds like a high soul and I am glad that he and his residence were spared from destruction.

Life itself is a miracle...

Edited by: etzchaim at: 11/10/03 10:50 am
OneTaste
Registered User
(11/10/03 1:48 pm)
Reply 		Awesome
Username, it takes a very special person to draw an inferential parallel to Hitler out of all of this. In a world where things and people routinely fall short of expectations, you always come up with the goods.

Just when I think you can’t possibly top yourself, again and again you raise the bar. Hell, I thought this one here had to be your max out post, but not one minute later, I came across this other gem (which I quote in its entirety) in the AY changes thread: “Years ago, I met some folks who worked for one of Lynn's companies. They didn't think well of him at all.”

I stand in awe of you, I truly do.

stermejo
Registered User
(11/11/03 4:06 pm)
Reply 		Re: Who it is
"I don't see how Rommel had anything to do with it"

Probably, neither should've I. Rommel had been implicated in and executed after the coup attempt on Hitler, July 20, 1944 but Claus von Stauffenberg was clearly involved.

Now for you, Borg. What was the date of that attempt on Ammachi's life? I'll bet this is a toughie.

soulcircle
Registered User
(11/11/03 9:57 pm)
Reply 		if we had to choose between a friend and this board
i would choose the friend

my old friend ammachi, not a saint, and none of us in here are saints either

and those of us in here who never want to be saints, sound the most like saints

now i have friends in here, and thank you all for your friendships

~~~~~~~~~~
where is the love?
in this last year I spent a day with Bimil and his more elderly sister.......and i look forward to a similar day with each of you

as i watched him as we came and went in parks, a restaurant
amidst the throngs of tourists, the sidewalks, the places of worship and 2 hours with Jason's family
i saw him greet hearts and faces and surroundings absent the conception of stranger (and the implied fear in the concept of strange)

it just hit me that he actually greeted the flames seeing nothing strange in them, or even fearful

he didn't neglect the lives lost and other things, anymore than we did

where is the love

in the menu item "I need advice," easyrose asked "what is truth?," in the thread of that name

i don't know where the love is, and I wonder if anyone in here today or any future date, might be able to join me in that admission

i love OneTaste for admitting emotion into this board, talking of chills

i like being able to tell need the star that i just got back in the last two hours from five days under redwoods and looking out at the moonlight lit pacific ocean

i like having had the time during those five days to visit in the home of friends of 26 years and speak of Kamala

I like feeling some emotion OneTaste that i understand you completely now for the first time
that I see the slamming that SRF Walrus reared up and gave SRF on this issue of no miracle. we don't always hear much from SRF Walrus (the most anonymous of all)
but Holy Sh.. , SRF Walrus rose from the dead this time and gave SRF the old sucker punch
and Borg rose from the the dead and gave Ammachi the sucker punch

where is the love

or you, OneTaste, might put it better, and I agree with your phrasing of it in advance

of course, SRF Walrus and Borg are right

yet I add again Where is the Heart?

how are we any different than what we project on SRF and Ammachi? when we don't live an offer an alternative, after some given period of resistance

~~~~~
BTW "in an evil empire, why is the population so peaceful?"
anyone want to consider being in Miami the last half of this month resisting FTAA, the proposed trade agreement to
enslave populations in this hemisphere

~~~~
By the way Hitler has been brought up in posts above....

the puppeteers of Bush puppet have grabbed more wealth in their greed at the expense of women and men in the service, and debts and taxes another generation must pay, since the war is paid for by spend now, pay later
and in every home repercussions start being felt as the war on the people of america via less shelter, more poverty and hunger and expensive limited (or non-existent) health services

and they talk off the 100 plus deaths (casualties) from Gulf War One, and silently the Veteran's Administration (today is Veteran's Day) has now given over 150,000 disabilities to that many Gulf War One veterans who have service related disease and impairments

Edited by: soulcircle at: 11/11/03 10:00 pm
Borg108
Registered User
(11/12/03 6:01 am)
Reply 		Re: if we had to choose ... who it is
stermejo,

If you believe her biography (the earlier version had much less miraculous stuff in it - maybe people's memories improved over time :-), there were several attempts on her life - not unlike what happened to the leader from another reich. One attempt on Amma's life was by poisoning and anotherr by stabbing, both when she was young.

soulcircle,

Yes, there are very few saints around. What is offensive to me is the hypocrisy of proclaiming those to be saints who are no closer to sainthood than you or me. Brother Bimalananda is a wonderful, sweet and guilless soul. He certainly may be a saint. I wish there were many more like him. But for Brother Dharmanada to say that Bro B saved HV, thus bringing more respect and accolades onto SRF monastics, is something that should no longer be encouraged or accepted. If HV was spared form destruction, then it was God who did so.

I don't fault Amma for her limitations, only for the hypocrisy of holding herself up for worship and adulation (pada puja, bhajans about herself, allowing others to say she is an avatar, etc.) when she is trying to extract all the money she can from Westerners while misrepresenting what she is doing with the money she says is going to help the poor. "By their fruits ye shall know them." You yourself, my friend, have at times chosen Yogananda as a target for critical posts based on hypocrisy that you (but few others) perceive.

Edited by: Borg108 at: 11/13/03 6:29 am
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