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        > LET US BE PRAGMATIC THIS TIME -- TO THE EXTREME!		 New Topic    Add Reply

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Realistananda
Unregistered User
(10/10/01 1:33 am)
Reply 		LET US BE PRAGMATIC THIS TIME -- TO THE EXTREME!
In regard to messages suggesting to leave SRF like X insider's: "Leaving that old time religion behind." I want to say the following: Why?

Why not being pragmatic this time instead of being foolishly idealistic again? Does not SRF serves us all well at a pragmatic level? I have a place to go to a service on Sunday mornings, a beautiful place in Encinitas to go to a retreat for little money, a church to make friends, and to help and be helped in getting a job when necessary, and an organization to donate money and practice abundance consciousness when I want to. Why leaving? There is not a better church around! At the level of their boards all organizations suck anyway-- why worrying about power struggles and policies at that level? They are not my business-- nor probably yours. A church is something extremely practical too. It fulfills a social role which we all need tremendously.

And in regard to finding God, SRF offers valuable information and techniques that we can use. But obviously we cannot fanatically limit ourselves to the paradigm ("the recipe" as Brother Anadamoy calls it) alone if we want to succeed.

There is a pragmatic aspect here to be seriously considered before leaving SRF. Aren't we tired to be such idealists and to continue suffering for disregarding the practical side of life? Will we not consider practical aspects this time? Don't we realize that this world is way too imperfect and way too concrete, and we need to develop pragmatism to be happy and find God too. Master said God is everything -- it is literally written dozens of times throughout the lessons! So, God is pragmatism too, not only idealism! Let us worship God in His disguise of pragamatism this time by being pragmatic to the extreme!
Respectfully and pragmatically -- Realistananda

hadit
Unregistered User
(10/10/01 5:40 am)
Reply 		Pragmatism
A classic example of hiding one's head in the sand,
Realistananda. Those of us who have had to deal directly with what SRF is, will never buy your story.
Re-read what you wrote. How can you possibly find a haven anywhere in that organization. And, if you think that the temples aren't directed by Mother Center, you are sadly mistaken. The World's history has many examples of peoples and cultures who mistakenly thought they could ignore evil, with terrible consequences.

If you feel so inclined to continue your association, that is your decision, of course. I read something, somewhere else on this board, by Raja Begum. It was about getting away from organizations in order to be able to find your personal relationship with God. I thought it was very well done and, possibly, something you might find informative.

4py
Unregistered User
(10/10/01 9:59 am)
Reply 		Realistananda
Those of us who have been on the inside have a different perspective and different experiences as to how the organization conducts itself.

If I had simply attended meditation groups and centers, Convocation, volunteered service, etc., I would have different perspective: This is the perfect organization and place to be. Even if I heard of some waste and mismanagement I would have discounted that saying that Master would take care of it, that the monastics were not trained in these matters, that this is all training. All of these are true. But seeing as we all come from dysfunctional backgrounds, this type of rationalization is what may be called 'enabling'. We enable an alcoholic to continue in his ways by making excuses for his behavior. We enable a drug addict or sex offender or compulsive liar to continue in his ways by making rationalizations for his behavior. Maybe we say he is a victim. His parents did it do him; his job did it to him. Victim consciousness. No personal responsibility. The thing is that ultimately we are only responsible for ourselves and when we make excuses or rationalizations for others behavior (be it a person or an organization) we may enable them to continue in that poor behavior.

From a distance (meaning, not having been on the inside), SRF looks like a perfect organization for the higher ages. But those of us to experience the inner workings of the organization learned things not exactly explained in the lessons. We also have to remember that we're just coming out of the lowest of the low Kali Yugas. This may add some perspective although it does not condone bad behavior.

As to donating money, I will continue to donate money to SRF but I'll probably do it anonymously and stipulate that it be used to produce the lessons or put out more of Master's writings and videos. (Where's the video of Sri Yukteswar?) But can I not practice abundance consciousness wherever I am or just in SRF? Is SRF the best church? There are no better churches around? Is not the human body the temple of God?

I think it was Catherine of Siena (correct me if I'm wrong) that used to walk from her house to her church with her eyes closed. She did not want anything to take her mind from God. For some of us, keeping our eyes closed would have meant, keeping quiet when things were just plain wrong. Not a gray area, but black and white. For some of us, keeping our eyes closed, meaning keeping focussed one-pointedly on God meant leaving SRF. The lessons are powerful. I would recommend them to everybody. Group meditations are powerful and heplful too. But some of us need to stay away from SRF because we feel it is best for our spiritual lives.

Raja Begum
Unregistered User
(10/10/01 11:05 am)
Reply 		In reply to the above
We have been told by our guru how an environment is influenced by the thoughts and vibrations of those who inhabit it. In any organization, the members are affected in visibly or subtly by each member and especially by those in leadership positions. The choices made by the ladies at Mt. Washington have a nebulous yet pervasive effect on the thoughts of each member. We know this is true. How, for example, has our country changed in tone with the succession of different presidents? Does our country feel the same under Bush's administration as it did with Clinton's?

Undeniably, an SRF culture does exist, for all organizations and corporations have identifiable cultural signatures. The first indelible imprint, of course, is the one left by our guru. But every SRF leader past our guru is going to naturally pick up on particular threads of our guru's comprehensive message that appeals to him or her and emphasize those over others. Built into that assumption is the fact that some members will be left out due to that exclusion. Actually, that all depends on how tolerant a leader is of difference, and what we continually hear on this message board is that the Matas have a narrow sense of respectability (one of Sri Yukteswar's "8 meannesses of the heart"). Furthermore, we hear (and see through SRF tapes and lectures) how one-pointed, even stubborn, those Matas can be. We also know that the ministers are not free to talk about certain subjects, that everything is controlled by memos and departments, and that the smallest details are requested to be passed under the watchful eye of those in power (recall the posting about Ananda Mata delaying a print job over a tenth of an inch photograph border). If this is the way things are, how can it not but influence the thinking of each member?

Then you have the members. These individuals have opened their hearts wide to the guru and the organization. Anything can be dumped into their poor hearts. Anything. They are not very discriminating about SRF's influence on them. They just assume whatever comes to them, however they are affected, whatever attitudes surface among the members are the correct ones to have, the ones Master willed for them. This is nonsense. People who abdicate their discriminative intelligence are not much different than chickens in a coop. All the great thinkers -- people who our guru would admire --- tell us that our God-given intelligence was meant to be utilized 24 hours a day. Democracy and all that is best in human culture require vigilance and care. They are not givens. They must be cultivated and cherished. What kind of message are we throwing back to the universe when we cease to examine the forces which influence our lives and, instead, let life "happen" to us? Innocent animals and helpless children do this, rational mature adults, never!

All said, I can compartmentalize my mind long enough to appreciate where Realistananda is coming from. I still like to sneak on the temple grounds when nobody is around and feel our guru's presence. The landscaping is pretty. It makes me happy to know some of my donations helped to preserve a place of beauty in my city. And I suppose, for people like Realistananda, the SRF community fulfills a basic human need for community. But discriminate individuals never choose their company indiscriminately. Perhaps Realistananda found a group of people he positively enjoys, and that has made his continuing attendance at the temples worthwhile. Me? I never hang with the SRF crowd. Personally, I find most of them boring, boring, boring. Sadly, many of them are intelligent people who have been shrunk by SRF's provinciality. The universal Yogananda has not manifested itself in the temples and lectures yet. I would attend more often if that message were to surface. But....because that ain't the case, I spends me time alone....realistically !!

Raja Begum
Unregistered User
(10/10/01 11:24 am)
Reply 		Quoting 4py
Quote #1
___________________________
"From a distance (meaning, not having been on the inside), SRF looks like a perfect organization for the higher ages. But those of us to experience the inner workings of the organization learned things not exactly explained in the lessons. "
_________________________

From a distance the earth looks like a pretty blue ball. From a distance you see a pretty woman walk by and she is nothing but an angel from heaven. Everything looks better from a distance. The question I have to ask myself is "Do I want to associate with people who always either close their eyes or see everything from a distance?" What does that tell you about those people and their willingness or unwillinginess to face the truth about things? And how can the God of beauty and terror -- the one Arjuna saw in his vision -- ever pass through the narrow doorways of their minds?

Quote #2
_____________________________________
As to donating money, I will continue to donate money to SRF but I'll probably do it anonymously and stipulate that it be used to produce the lessons or put out more of Master's writings and videos.
----------------------------------------------------------
I shot a bullet into the sky, and where it landed don't know..don't ask me where or why.



Quote #3
------------------------------------------------------------
(Where's the video of Sri Yukteswar?)
------------------------------------------------------------
Sri Yukteswar gets a minor appearance in Mrinalini Mata's new video which ought to be titled "Love Me -- I'm Your Next New President" but is actually called "In His Presence." (maybe it should be retitled "Mrinalini: In His Presence")

4py
Unregistered User
(10/10/01 12:32 pm)
Reply 		Re: Donations
SRF used to have a donation envelope that they mailed on which one indicated where they wished the donation to be used. Does anyone remember this? I'll see if I can dig this up from an old file or something. I'll scan it and see if I can post it.

Realistananda
Unregistered User
(10/10/01 6:40 pm)
Reply 		ORGANIZATIONS ARE LIKE FIRE -- TOO CLOSE THEY BURN YOU
Dear Friends

You are mistaken. I also worked for SRF several years. It was painful yes, but there were blessings too -- very impotant ones. Furthermore, I'm not denying the reality that you have been discussing -- I'm well aware of it, and of many things that you do not know too. But I'm not proposing denial at all, that would only delay the pain. On the contrary, it is my opinion that we need to be realistic to the extreme!

Organizations are "a bag full of cats."

SRI Yuktesswar says "be like the ant that separates the grains of sugar from those of sand." There is a lot of "sugar grains" in SRF, but for a long time, we swallowed sugar and sand indicriminately and now we all have an indigestion! But that is our part in the problem!

We, you, and I, can get a lot of good things from SRF if we stay away from politics, from getting a job in SRF, and from trying to be monastics in SRF, and by being pragmatist and stop idealizing the organization, of course.

We can idealize God and Guru all we want, but let us be realistic about all organizations -- they all suck when you go too close to them! We need to leave some space so we can exist as the unique individuals we are. But at the same time, we can benefit tremendously by being a part of an organization too -- in countless ways (unless we become too involved).

You do not need to go into the chimeny to enjoy the fire. Its warmth radiates and its lights illuminates far away too. But if you go to close you get burn -- that is my experience with organizations -- not only with SRF!

I suggest we open a new subject in the home page called: "A lesson in pragmatism"

Love -- pragmatically and realistically - Realistananda

MostLoyal
Unregistered User
(10/10/01 9:07 pm)
Reply 		Real realism
Well, now, let's see. What is it that is being suggested here? To quote:

"Does not SRF serves us all well at a pragmatic level?"

What do you mean by "pragmatic?" I presume you mean practical, useful, of actual benefit. If so, let's look at those items.

"I have a place to go to a service on Sunday mornings,"

...and the benefit would be? The implication here is that the Sunday morning service is helpful, and it is the SRF organization that provides it for us. You make the call.

"a beautiful place in Encinitas to go to a retreat for little money,"

There are many beautiful places to go on retreat. I particularly notice you did not say "a spiritually inspiring and uplifting place." It's starting to sound like Disneyland to me...

"a church to make friends, and to help and be helped in getting a job when necessary,"

Now we're getting somewhat far afield, are we not? What happened to a place to meditate and find God? Has it come to this? The best justification for being an active member of SRF is to get help in finding a job?

"and an organization to donate money and practice abundance consciousness when I want to."

I must admit to getting a bit lost by now. It sounds like you are saying that SRF provides me a service by allowing me to donate money, and that I need the organization to be able to practice abundance consciousness.

If I were the suspicious type, I would wonder about who is posting these messages. But, having worked for years on the "inside" of SRF, I am never suspicious.

Realistananda
Unregistered User
(10/11/01 2:01 am)
Reply 		to "most loyal"
Dear Most Loyal
I can see that you are an idealist person and I can relate to that. Your message obviously expresses contempt for practical things. However, this is because, as an idealist, you see life devided in things that are more valuable or "higher" than others. Material things are low in your scale while spiritual ones are the highest. I truly respect your belief system but I do not share it. God is everything said Master, and therefore, "this is more spiritual or higher than that" is only an illusion of the mind. This is better, that is higher, this is not so spiritual, that is materialistic, this is utilitarianism and so on is all illusion and conducive to judgementality. Regarding your fear of my being an SRF spy writting here to uphold the SRF flag, I can't help you much -- each one of us has to control his "mind reading" thoughts. But thanks for responding and I congratulate you for your good writting skills.
Greettings to you -- Realistananda

Realistananda
Unregistered User
(10/11/01 3:22 am)
Reply 		Editing previous messages
I would like help to learn how can I edit messages I sent earlier. I entered a password each time -- thanks

MostLoyal
Unregistered User
(10/11/01 9:42 am)
Reply 		Sigh...
I don't have to read your mind; I only have to read what you write. Your "response" bears no relation to my comments. This is typical avoidance behavior, one symptom we have been discussing. Your repeated insults couched in nice words is another clue. Your complete misunderstanding of Master's teachings, of even the most basic general truth, is unfortunately the basic characteristic of those leading SRF.

Tell me, now, what is the practical reason for your challenging Kriyananda on this board? Ananda is not the topic of this board, is not the reason for its being, and is irrelevant to our discussions. Since "God is everything," why do you need to ask any questions? Since "nothing is higher than anything else," why do you bother to post on this board?

Of course, we know the answers to those questions. I wonder if you do.

Another Ex
Unregistered User
(10/11/01 10:19 am)
Reply 		Realistananda
Good for you, Most Loyal! Realistananda's comments, although coated in sugar, reek with criticism and intolerance of different opinions. Did you notice how smoothly and easily you were labeled an idealist? He/she also called X-Insider a foolish idealist and then signed his/her message "respectfully and pragmatically yours."

I don't know how many will respond to Realistananda's comments, but those of us who have really "been there," can effortlessly see just how "realistic" and "respectful" this person really is.



FromLA
Unregistered User
(10/11/01 10:25 am)
Reply 		Realistananda
I think I know you. No matter how one tries, you know, it's very hard to disguise one's real self. I'll give you an extra look next time I see you, perhaps at a Sunday service.

xmonk
Unregistered User
(10/11/01 1:30 pm)
Reply 		Realistananda
I have read and re-read the entries by Realistananda, trying to understand where he/she is coming from. I don't want to judge anyone but my only conclusion is that he/she sounds like a dupe of SRF. This person obviously hasn't experienced the deep hurt that is felt by those who are contributing to this board. What is being said by this person is the same old tired party line that has been SRF's bill of fare for decades. I'm sorry, but what I am hearing from this person is basically what we all heard from our counselors, who didn't know what they were talking about, either.

I am in agreement with what Most Loyal had to say on the matter. Also, From LA hit the nail on the head.

Reali
Unregistered User
(10/12/01 10:33 pm)
Reply 		fromLA
Dear friend
I didn't know it was you. Neither I knew who was running the board. Sorry. Had I known I would have been less confrontational. The guy that gave me the address did not explain to me who you guys were. Because of the bitterness of some messages, I even thought this was a board created by Ananda and was utilizing SRF devotees' frustration for its own purposes; and then I became even more confrontational. However, I realize now it is not so and I apologize. I should have been informed of the whole story but my friend just gave your address, so I didn't know who I was dealing with. Anyway, I have found the messages somewhat appart from the matters that I am interested in, in regard to the SRF crisis; which really interestes me, but in a different vein. I also find written comunication quite limited to discuss such delicate matters. I rather meet with you in person. For this reason, I'm not planing to come back to the board, and I will give a break to Realistananda. If you see me at the temple please do not hesitate to approach me and perhaps we can go for lunch together. In Masters' friendship -- youknowwhom. (Note: I had problems to upload this message, something is not working with this board. I guess EzOp can erase my two previous attempts)

SRF1963
Unregistered User
(10/14/01 8:20 pm)
Reply 		To Reali
Are you afraid of being found out? Afraid that SRF might find out who you are and you might get into trouble? There is probably a good reason for that as SRF does NOT like criticism. You are either with them or against them.

If your SRF / Temple friends turn you in they aren't really your friends anyway.

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