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SRF Walrus > What can we do to help SRF? > Helping SRF
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dawnrays Registered User (5/26/03 9:20 am) Reply	Re: we saw this coming Thank you S.C. for trying (as refers to reading my post at the seminar). dawnrays Edited by: dawnrays at: 5/26/03 3:10:17 pm
soulcircle Registered User (5/26/03 9:30 am) Reply	your welcome We have a chance to chat, I am in the chat room. I told gardendiva there is a message from you for her
atthylotusfeet Registered User (5/26/03 9:44 am) Reply	Re: Helping SRF: A reply to ATLF Dawn says: Do remember to grieve and don't put it off, it may come back to haunt you. Believe me, it does not contradict your meditation or spiritual growth. It's a part of life and growth and honoring yourself (and the God in yourself). did you bother reading the part that says I cry and get angry too? I also share with other (my sisters and others who have been there) In a constructive manner which helps facilitate our healing after losing our father. We don't sweep it under the rug. dawnrays said: To deny a person thier grief and feelings is a very dangerous thing. I never said to deny grief. You have to let it out but there are constructive and destructive ways to let it out. Dawn says: I honestly believe that daya ma is pursuing her vision of srf. However, it is not everybody's. She has taken some very inappropriate and damaging liberties. That is your opinion and everyone does not have to agree. as you said they don't. What has she done directly that you can say with absolute certainty that is damaging? Did you see it? Did you hear it from her lips or from her rightings? Where is this information coming from? dawn says: There is a lot of EVERYTHING on this board and believe me, God and guru want it all. Are you sure of this? God and Guru want speculation and rumor? You don't remember hearing about Guruji being hurt by those trying to tear him down or hurt his work? What would your actions truly be considered by God and Guru? Do not Delude yourself. IDF Ellyn
atthylotusfeet Registered User (5/26/03 9:51 am) Reply	Re: we saw this coming This is to SoulCircle and all others who want to assume and make false statements about myself and anyone else who may differ from your opinion. I have never been in SRF's PR dept if there is such a thing, nor am I am plant or nun, nor do I work for SRF in any capacity. But to put it in simple terms: My dad use to say "Opinions are like a$$holes...every body has one" LOL I will leave it at that. Peace Ellyn
soulcircle Registered User (5/26/03 9:52 am) Reply	now we play daya mata's 1,001 secrets? laughing laughing daya mata had every single richmond devotee believing for decades that she lived at 3880 san rafael laughing laughing ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ who said lie lie lie Edited by: soulcircle at: 5/26/03 11:07:10 pm
soulcircle Registered User (5/26/03 10:18 am) Reply	i love when the devotee does a better job All, Perhaps not actually on their payroll. Let's picture that you are an independent devotee Probably doing a better job then SRF itself does, an example, Michael Flynn.... ~~~~~~~~~~~ Our read of your posts is: One with little compassion for the fifty plus years of damage done by power tripping of the bigger than life monastics. One with little compassion for the nuns and monks still within the "ashram," who cry on their pillows deep in the night. One willing to call me names [an indication that we are not the only people still learning to discuss and not argue] and waste the little time we have available to discuss dawnrays' post " Treatment of SRF families!" [SRF Walrus, can you put the above mentioned post in featured posts?] In the sweet bye and bye, we will all be more aware of our oneness, whether successfully independent PR, or directly SRF, or devotees on one side or another of these discussions. The day I embrace you, and all, is the day we all realize divine mother needs no organization or church, humanity and all beings are all embraced by life and divine compssion within. There is one "church" and it is life and precious. There is pain whether we want to see SRF upheld and supported with our service. example, realization and civility, or whether we want to share openly and safely and in community [Walrus Board] what our experiences in life are and why we are stepping aside from SRF to live spiritual and civil lives. And whether pain is understood for thwarted desires and from having our peace disturbed....... ,,,,, and in that light we keep it from bubbling over to "stuff," rather than a renewed chance to learn, and be of some support and value to those around us. We do see a difference between you and SRF. at thy feet, you have a beautiful soul..... at thy lotus feet, in our view of things, SRF [any organization for that matter] has no soul. free souls..............................at last
dawnrays Registered User (5/26/03 3:46 pm) Reply	Re: Helping SRF: A reply to ATLF Ellyn, Everything I personally have bought up, I have experienced first hand. From the posts I have read, it appears to me that they are sharing first hand experiences. If there are assumptions, they too are based on experiences. It is impossible to have a brain and not make assumptions in an organization where no one will level with you. You are the exception in that all you seem to do is quote from the writings. May I ask you how long you have been in srf? Many times I have tried to discuss mine (and others' similar problems) and have them addressed within the organization. Please read some of my other posts and you will see this. As for daya ma, she has said on tape that she lives in Mount Washington and walks on thread bare carpets (for the members' sake). It is on one of her tapes. She has referred to her ashram "home" many times in public and on tape. I wrote to her personally of my difficulties of raising a family within srf for over ten years. A short while ago, I wrote her a letter suggesting she resign for the good of the organization. The fact that she lives in a very nice and expensive home was published in I believe the "New Times" (correct me). I don't even really care where she lives, it's the lying that bothers me. She has apparently lived there since 1968 or '69. The address is on this board somewhere if you would like to write to her. The srf vs. Ananda law suit expenditures vary somewhere from 10 to 40 million. I would suggest you write to her today because we would all like to know whether it was closer to 10 or 40 million. Another good source of information are Master's original writings (unedited by srf) and in particular the original AY. It usually has a blue cover and can be found in many spiritual book stores. The late Durga Mata wrote a very lovely and candid book called "The Trilogy" which takes a more candid look at the Master. It also was not published by srf but can be found in spiritual book stores. Donald Walters (the former Kriyananda) published a very interesting book called "The Path" in 1977. This was long before any law suits and is interesting and informative in it's own right. He was a direct disciple, after all. I am very and sincerely sorry about your loss. I know how it is trying to get through grief by embracing super-positive attitudes. But it is also kind of a denial. If it is bothering you to the point where you are putting blinders on, then that's a problem. Believe me, I really have "been there". I refused to believe that srf could be in error on any major issue for many years. It was a comfort to me, but really it was denial. A lot of it is just needing this perfect image to hang on to (and that's OK too.) We will always be here if you want to talk (ABOUT YOU). But don't expect srf to be too interested. Love, dawnrays Edited by: dawnrays at: 5/27/03 8:08:40 am
dawnrays Registered User (5/26/03 7:18 pm) Reply	Re: i love when the devotee does a better job To S.C. Thanx for your interest in that post concerning families. As you can see from the above post, I have tried to get srf interested in things like that. I don't really get that chat room. Feel free to use my e-mail if you come up with something. dawnrays Edited by: dawnrays at: 5/26/03 9:25:35 pm
True Enuf Registered User (5/26/03 9:13 pm) Reply	Re: we saw this coming Ellyn, the problem I have with the "fools argue, wise men discuss" dictum is that I�m not sure you truly wanted to discuss anything, but rather simply to engage in polemics. You have not addressed nor responded to any of the issues, points or actual experiences raised on this board, other than to essentially declare that perhaps we�re wrong. I retract my statement calling you a liar. Hope you accept my apologies. I could have been kinder or a bit indirect, by saying instead "I suspect you�re being less than candid here" or "In that your primary goal seems to be to defend SRF at all costs, your proffer of best wishes might appear disingenuous." But when I get the feeling that I�m being talked at, rather than talked to, I thought a nice little jolt back might be in order. I don�t think you were lying. It�s just that the suggestions for healing seemed, in the context of your posts, secondary and subservient to what appeared to me to be the main purpose of your visit, trying to help SRF by persuading us of the wisdom in ceasing all public discussion of the issues raised here. I may have been wrong, but it felt to me at that moment that, as with the superficially inspired understanding of the credulous bliss-bunny (I�m not saying you�re one), you appended again and again the fixed, standardized SRF afterthought: I love you all and wish you well. Not that it�s terrible to include that, if sincere, but it can be irritating at times if it�s stuck in merely as a perfunctory add-on. I figured you just couldn�t stand by and see SRF knocked without riding to the rescue. But isn�t the game plan that the superior vibes of SRF will win out in the end? That although Maya, like gravity, is omnipresent, ever trying to derail the Good., yet the focus of a superior path will be on establishing and maintaining the high vibration necessary to counteract and make one proof against the negative, as opposed to slugging it out in a mud fight with the poor deluded ones? But what does one do if the negative issues forth from the organization itself, as has been indicated by the many and varied responses of Chuckle, KS, Dawn, SC and myself? You might not see it that way and so we�ll just have to agree to disagree. But I liked very much you call to pray for healing of both the members and leaders of SRF. A few points: After Master and Rajasi passed, present management also received much assistance from many members of this board, who gave in some cases the best decades of their lives only to be taken to the cleaners. Comparing the many persons initiated by Master who later left with many of the dear souls who departed the ashram or SRF employment over the last years is a non-sequitur, unless the reasons for leaving are more or less the same, which they�re not (e.g., calling attention to the cockeyed Peoplesoft debacle as opposed to deciding monasticism is not for them.) Donations are down, and of course, part of the reason is the lousy economy. The other part is declining membership and withdrawal of support by a good number of devotees, including some large donors. A discriminating person should question everything. Watch what they say AND what they do� goes for this board, SRF, and everything else. I agree many people have been helped by SRF. Every time a monastic offers good counsel to a devotee, that�s what it�s all about. When someone is uplifted by a service or enjoys a good group meditation, that�s marvelous. When a member or monastic lends a shoulder to cry on or just listens deeply to another devotee, that�s so beautiful. That�s the spiritual path. And that�s exactly not what we�re talking about on this board. I like you Ellyn. And I think you enjoy visiting our little board. Just be careful. Like a moth drawn irresistibly to a flame, you�ve entered the dark underbelly plaguing your beloved SRF, ignoring the perennial warning any good SRFer would heed, that one really shouldn�t be coming to sites such as this at any time, period. But this place is really small potatoes. Now if you really want to put your faith to the test, try drawing closer and closer to the epicenter of action in SRF and determine for yourself the veracity of our claims.
KS Registered User (5/27/03 6:00 am) Reply	Re: we saw this coming True Enuf, Good point! Those who doubt the stories here should follow SRF's own advice. Test it and decide for yourself. Get close to the HQ, to the huge egos of the SRF leadership, and watch and learn. Then decide for yourself. Most of us here seem to have done that and as a result we formed the opinions we share here. Personally I know of NO ONE who went through the gauntlet close to SRF and came out undamaged. Most have left SRF completely. Some claim to no longer even believe in God. How bad do you think their experience was? $:\$
atthylotusfeet Registered User (5/27/03 6:35 am) Reply	Re: we saw this coming True Enuf says: Donations are down, and of course, part of the reason is the lousy economy. The other part is declining membership and withdrawal of support by a good number of devotees, including some large donors. Does SRF post who the Donations come from and how much the donors give? I've never seen this. Is there a "memo" about declining doantions? I don't know about the Pepolesoft issue. I'm sure you'll tell me. I'm not here to defend anyone. I know from years of experience that I can't expect perfection out of people or organizations. I don't hold the illusion that SRF is perfect, it has it problems like any larger organization does that happens when you grow. I don't know how much money was spent during the Ananda trial but i believe that they were trying to protect masters work from a self serving direct disciple. What would you have done to try to protect the masters work? I have read parts of the path and there are parts of that book where he praises the people he now tears down in public. So what of it? I know that we are not ever, ever going to see a perfect religious organization. I have quite a few tapes of Daya Mata and I have never heard her speaking of bare carpet. Which tape is it? The New Source never heard of it? Is it a reputable source? If you don't care where she lives then what of it? Master lived in seclusion without wanting even most monistics to know where he was, is this maybe following in the footsteps of the Master and Rajarsi? What issues are you wanting me to answer? I believe that I have responded to issues on this board. Again I am not here to defend SRF. I believe that we are all entitled to our opinions and just because others opinions may differ from yours does not mean that they are deluded or wrong, or has their head in the sand. We all have different experiences. I have never had an unpleasant experience with the monistics. Then again I don't go looking for it either. I have learned in life that if you go looking for trouble almost always you will find it. I am sure that if I wanted to I could find hundreds of things to nit pick at SRF about, but that is not why I came to SRF. I came because Master called me, I came for his teachings and for my spiritual unfoldment. Everything else is secondary. Have those closest to me benefited since I have come to SRF... Yes. Have I.....Yes. I know there are problems, the thing is I have been part of various organizations with problems and I have come to realize that I have come to get what I need, not to get mixed up in politics or any other issues that don't involve my spiritual growth. You may think it's not right but like I my dad used to say: "opinions are like a$$holes..everybody has one." This is all part of Maya. Who wants to find God? Who wants to get caught up in Maya? it's up to each individual to know. Just as you say that God and Guru want what's going on here on this board, maybe God and Guru want what's going on at SRF. Have you asked him? there will be times where we have bad experiences with monistics or lay members but that doesn't make everyone involved rogue. I read of someone who did have a bad experience (or several) at SRF and dealt with them immediately and received satisfactory resolutions. I hope that you all are able to resolve your problems with SRF or move on. It would be a great day when all of Masters Chela's can be guided by his wisdom. Blessings to you all, Ellyn(ATLF) P.S. I can say one thing on the Mother Center from my experience, Masters loving presence fills the Mother Center, his divine presence permeates that space. My non SRF family can attest to that.
atthylotusfeet Registered User (5/27/03 7:56 am) Reply	ananda law suit This is what SRF says about the law suit. Believe it or not it's up 2 u. If you want to know how much it costed call mothert center and ask. Were the means worth the ens? you decide! PROTECTING A SPIRITUAL LEGACY Trademark/Copyright Lawsuit Between SRF/Ananda Reaches Conclusion Final Documentation Signed by Courts on December 16, 2002 We are happy to let you know that a conclusion has been reached in the lawsuit between Self-Realization Fellowship and the Ananda Church of Self-Realization, thus bringing to an end the legal proceedings between the two organizations regarding certain trademarks and copyrights. On October 28, 2002, a unanimous jury verdict was rendered in the remaining and most important aspect of the proceedings � the copyright portion of the litigation. One of the main issues to be decided by the jury was whether or not Paramahansa Yogananda intended that SRF be the owner of the copyrights in his writings, lectures, and recordings of his voice. Although in the course of the lawsuit Ananda had challenged SRF�s assertion that this was indeed the case, the jury unequivocally found that Yogananda did in fact assign to Self-Realization Fellowship the copyrights in all the works at issue in this trial. The jury�s decision was based on thousands of pages of manuscripts, letters, and legal documents produced as evidence by SRF � and on the personal testimony of a number of close disciples of Paramahansa Yogananda. The works at issue in the trial comprised a large body of articles authored by Paramahansaji, including more than 200 of his Bhagavad Gita commentaries and Bible interpretations printed in SRF�s magazine over a period of many years, as well as portions of some of his lectures also published in SRF�s magazine, and tape recordings of his voice. The jury determined that Ananda had infringed SRF�s copyrights on all these items, and awarded SRF an amount of nearly $29,000 in damages for Ananda�s sales of the infringing sound recordings. No damages were awarded in connection with Ananda�s past reproduction and distribution of SRF�s printed materials because of the specific circumstances under which they were used at that time. Because monetary gain had never been a goal for SRF in the lawsuit, immediately following the jury verdict Self-Realization Fellowship had its lawyers prepare an agreement that would dismiss all remaining issues pending in the litigation to avoid any further dispute or expense to either party � including attorney fees. Ananda agreed to the settlement terms, which affirm the jury's decision and make it final, without imposing any further burdens on Ananda. On December 16, 2002, the court entered the final judgment on the case. A Brief Overview of the Lawsuit Self-Realization Fellowship initiated this legal action in 1990, after learning that Ananda had changed its name to Church of Self-Realization and was also reprinting and selling SRF-copyrighted publications and recordings by Sri Yogananda. In filing the lawsuit, SRF's one concern was that the two organizations � the society founded by Paramahansa Yogananda and the one founded by J. Donald Walters � be clearly distinguishable from one another. The Self-Realization Fellowship name is known by hundreds of thousands of members and friends throughout the world, who associate it with the organization Paramahansaji established more than 80 years ago for the purpose of disseminating his teachings and preserving their purity and integrity for all future generations. Ananda�s name change � combined with its unauthorized publishing of the Guru�s writings � made it increasingly difficult for people to distinguish between products and services originating with Paramahansa Yogananda�s organization and those from other sources. The legal proceedings regarding trademarks were concluded towards the end of 1997, and SRF�s trademarks in its own names, Self-Realization Fellowship and Self-Realization Fellowship Church, were deemed valid. The courts further stated that while the terms "Paramahansa Yogananda" and "Self-realization" by themselves could not be trademarked, Ananda should use the name Ananda Church of Self-Realization rather than Church of Self-Realization, in order "to minimize confusion." (SRF had never objected to the use of the term "Self-realization" in a religious context but only as the name of another church.) In the five years since the trademark issues were resolved, SRF has found that confusion has been lessened to some extent. There was no jury trial regarding the trademarks, as this aspect was addressed by district and appellate court judges. As for the copyright matters pertaining to the large volume of works described above, these were addressed by the jury in a four-week trial, culminating in the unanimous confirmation by the jury of Paramahansaji�s intent that the copyrights in his writings and recordings belong to SRF. (Contrary to what has been inferred by Ananda, the copyright status of the Guru�s best-known book, Autobiography of a Yogi, was not at issue at any time during the legal proceedings.) What of the Future? This period of litigation has been difficult for all parties involved. We are grateful it has concluded and that we are now able to look forward to what we hope will be a future of harmony, understanding, and goodwill. As we have done for more than 80 years, we will continue to publish the most comprehensive and authoritative editions of Paramahansa Yogananda�s books, and to disseminate his teachings worldwide, preserving their purity and integrity for generations to come. We deeply appreciate the support we have received from so many of you for our ongoing efforts to uphold the aims and ideals of our founder, Paramahansa Yogananda, and to carry on his spiritual and humanitarian work.
dawnrays Registered User (5/27/03 8:35 am) Reply	Re: ananda law suit Ellyn, No, actually I don't believe it. This board is the best source of information about srf in existance. The source of this information is individual devotees. They are former and current members, employees, committee members and former monks and nuns (many who have been closely associated with the srf Board). If this is not good enough and you don't believe them, then fine. However please do not refer to these experiences as "rumors and speculation" or even "hostility". We all see through your phony sweetness ("I am praying for you", please give me a break) after having been exposed to it for more years than we care to remember. I have asked you a number of times what your own personal experience with srf is, but at this point I really don't care anymore. And of course if everythings fine with you, you are welcome to go back there. I'm telling you, they really don't care what goes on here or anywhere in the real world. If you tell them about this board and your experiences here (even a monk) they will simply smile (cluelessly) say something ineffectual and walk over to talk to somebody about their committee meeting on India Night. You are wasting your time here if you think you are scoring brownie points with srf. We already have our relationship with Master (which we prefer to separate, out of respect for him and for ourselves). We don't need you to tell us (in your ever-so condescending way) what that is either. If you don't want to know anything (daya won't tell) then go back to srf. Otherwise, please do go away as you keep threatening (promising?) to. Bye, dawnrays Edited by: dawnrays at: 5/27/03 10:41:27 am
atthylotusfeet Registered User (5/27/03 8:49 am) Reply	Peace OUT! I see why you were all were miserable at SRF. Fault finding is so easy. How about trying to practice the teachings by turning that mirror of introspection in your own direction. That is where the growth is. We can never grow by picking at the flaws of others. It is only when we see our own flaws and correct them that we have personal transformation. Don't be spiritual infants who whine and moan at the slightest discomfort. there will be many things in this life that are not to our liking. What of it? Remember St. Francis? He toke what was given without blame, or criticism. Be grateful to God that he is giving you what you need for your spiritual growth. I pray that God and Guru show you more mercy than you have given your brothers and sisters on the spiritual path. It is amazing to see Guruji's teachings in action in Daya Ma, she has been like the rose, she has been crushed (over and over) but still she gives of the sweet fragrance of love. Not once have I seen read of her attacking those who so viciously try to defame her. Oh Devotee be thou a rose! Edited by: atthylotusfeet at: 6/1/03 9:11:28 am
dawnrays Registered User (5/27/03 10:47 am) Reply	Re: Peace OUT! Ellyn, Well now that's what you've really been dying to say all along, isn't it? Doesn't it feel good to be honest for a change? dawnrays (6/1/03) Hi Ellyn, Great job of editing, (are you a professional?) Suddenly we're waxing poetric (a crushed rose?) I must say you would do srf proud with you santitation of your own post (the one truly honest one of yours). I thought I would add this little addendum to set the record straight that the above post in no way resembles the one we responded to several days ago and which you felt compelled to appoligize (or something) for posting. dawnrays Edited by: dawnrays at: 6/1/03 6:03:51 pm
True Enuf Registered User (5/27/03 6:34 pm) Reply	Re: Peace OUT! What!!?? You signed off without any of the following!!?? Peace and understanding I love you all and I wish you all the best Blessings to all May God and Guru bless us all God and Guru's bless all of you In Divine Friendship From one who is praying for all No need to answer, it's a rhetorical question. I suppose "I really do hope God and Guru help you all because you sure do need it" comes close, but since it was located in the body of the message, not as the usual fare-thee-well, it doesn't count. And just when I was getting comfortable with your parting salutations. That's life for ya!
KS Registered User (5/27/03 7:52 pm) Reply	Re: we saw this coming AtThyLotusFeet, You doubt what you read hear and wonder how people could possibly know various things???? Just for the record, we know a lot about what goes on inside SRF because SRF does in fact have things to hide. People work all over SRF, people discouraged by their own abuse and disturbed by what they see and hear. Word gets out. SRF puts out a tremendous effort to hide the inner workings of the organization because they have something to hide. The karmic laws come into play and of course their actions become known. They don�t study their own literature or they would know this. The Walrus had to happen sooner or later. SRF�s reaction to it was both pathetic and predictable. The level of donations, the daily routine of monastics, where do the Bad Ladies really live, the inner workings of the Public Affairs department and Priya�s strange ways are all things that people know. Most information is not even posted here but enough is to get the tone of the organization. Let karma work its web. They know what they have done.
True Enuf Registered User (5/27/03 8:27 pm) Reply	Re: we saw this coming "Most information is not even posted here..." Yessir, we too can declare "Ah, if you only knew...", but with us, we really know and the talk ain't just for show! Heads-up to Ellyn: You're gonna miss the good-natured announcer, Brahmachari Dominick, at the convo this year. He's gone. Jai Peoplesoft!
chuckle chela Registered User (5/27/03 10:31 pm) Reply	Re: we saw this coming When I heard several weeks ago that Dominic had left, I was really saddened. Those who knew him would probably say you could see it coming (last year's Convo, for example). I think it's a great loss to SRF. He wore many hats in the organization, was loved by many, walked a fine line, and, in the end, it was my impression (from a great distance) that he just got fed up with the zany demands. Once his heart opened up, there was no way he could abide by the nonsense. It was also my impression that he really tried to make a difference. I will really miss him.
dawnrays Registered User (5/28/03 7:27 am) Reply	Re: Peace OUT! Unbelievable. This is what is commonly referred to as "spiritual egotism". Sufferers are generally unaware of their condition. Common symptoms are the urge to lecture uncontrollably, quote passages and have a general air of condescension and superiority. There is also usually a complete or partial denial of the emotions (and in particular, hostility) while busily pointing out this emotion in others. It is even suspected that certain higher-up members of srf may suffer from this condition, however it is usually seen in new devotees who feel they may have an evangelical "mission". I suspect that the members of this board have at least tried to meditate. You ex-monastics and longtime (10 or 20 years plus) devotees, have you tried meditation yet? Anyway, if you suspect that you have encountered someone (on this board or otherwise) suffering from this condition, it is usually best not to pander to thier (spiritual) ego. Reasoning also will seldom get you anywhere, as they see all such attempts as interferring with their "mission". Their mission being so deep and unwavering that they are often known not to listen. They NEVER to attempt to relate and usually use quotations and such to make points and judgements. Any attempt to relate to such persons will be seen by them as you (the heathen) attempting to drag them down to your (inferior) level. Such is spiritual egotism. The only cure is life and experience (hopefully in this one). dawnrays Edited by: dawnrays at: 5/29/03 9:28:18 am