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SRF Walrus

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SRF Walrus > What can we do to help SRF? > Helping SRF
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atthylotusfeet Registered User (5/23/03 7:33 am) Reply	Helping SRF BHAGAVAD GITA PG 396 RIGHT ATTITUDE TOWARDS ONE'S SPIRITUAL GUIDE AND SADHANA III:31 Men, devotion -filled, who ceaselessly practice My precepts, without fault-finding, they too become free from all karma. Excerpted commentary: Nominal followers, lacking in devotion tend to justify their non-understanding by criticizing the wisdom-dictated disciplinary measures prescribed by a true guru. They miss their goal. Full devotion helps instill greater effort into a student, it quickens his spiritual peace and clarifies his vision of the spiritual summit. Instead of finding fault with the Guru or the path, a devotee's analytical power should be used in finding out his own hidden psychological blemishes. Judge not other's, judge yourself. I am saddend to see that this board his full of so many complaints without real spiritual solutions. I would like to ask these questions: 1. Are people her expecting SRF to be ran like a company with stock holders? 2. Didi Guruji or Rajarsi ever ask the members how they should run SRF? If not why is anyone expecting it now? 3. Has anyone here ever been on the board of an NPO (Non profit org)? If not then may I share that BOD's of NPO's do not as a rule consult the membership unless and until they feel that a decision is going to have a major impact on the membership. That is why NPO's have a BOD to deal with the crucial and not so crucial decision making. 4. If this group is really about helping SRF why is there no prayer circle here? Why are there boards asking for rumors or Gossip? I don't think rumors or gossip would help anyone's self-realization. If I reacall correctly Guruji was against this type of talk, would tell people to speak louldy about their own flaws. He even instructed people to get up and leave when this sort of talking took place. How many of you have the courage to stop talking negatively about Daya Mata or other monistics? How many could list their own flaws instead of talking negatively about SRF or anyone for that matter? 5. Do we really believe that Guruji would want this type of Group organized, claiming to be his chelas? 6. If we really want to help SRF instead of thinking from our limited ego's (I'm assuming no one here has attained liberaton.) why not try to tune in with the Guru and see where we need to change? Asking SRF to change without making changes in ourselves is like the "Peace Protestor" who angrily slaps the police officer with his sign. How can we expcect a better SRF if we have not become better. How can we ask that they change if we have lowered ourselves to petty minutia? If Master came as he said, Self-Realization has come to take you to heaven, that should be our first goal. Weather SRF fits our ideal or not is not the issue. No body will ever be completely satisfied no matter what changes are made at SRF. So now begans the real work , like sister Gyanamata said "Change no circimstances in my life Lord, change me!" Peace and understanding, At Thy Lotus Feet Jai Guruji, Jai Guruji, Jai Guruji, Jai Guruji!
True Enuf Registered User (5/23/03 3:11 pm) Reply	Re: Helping SRF The Gita passage and commentary do not allude to organizations, solely to the Guru and his teachings, i.e., the spiritual path to follow (going within, yama-niyama, etc…). Many solutions, some specific to certain problems, were posted at various times throughout many threads. In fact, let’s go further, many problematic issues were raised and possible solutions offered, even with management acknowledgment, from employees in the course of their jobs and monastics while still in the ashram, all to no avail. Yes, the complaints are here but not to the total exclusion of solutions. Here are some answers for you: 1.- No, of course not. But isn’t it supposed to be a family, our spiritual home? 2.- Master and Rajasi NEVER, I repeat, NEVER mismanaged SRF to the extent we’re seeing now, even though Master tried to achieve all manner of different things, some with success, some that failed. 3.- BODs of NPOs have been known to make 180 degree turns, as membership or donations decline for good reason. American Red Cross and United Way ring a bell? 4.- This is a chat board, open to all and every point of view, much of which I don’t agree with. It’s not a prayer circle. Each individual can choose for themselves to pray (or not) for SRF or anyone or anything for that matter. Rumors and gossip may abound on this chat board. However, many of the events depicted here have occurred and been witnessed first hand. But you’re right, engaging in rumors and gossip is useless and detrimental to one’s spiritual growth. At a convocation some years back, even Br. Satyananda expounded on how to get around the ‘no criticizing” rule, when it’s obvious a person is doing something wrong and you cannot let it pass (perhaps at work, or wherever). He said then it’s OK to ‘evaluate’. Now he wasn’t playing semantics here. We have to do this all the time, especially in the workplace and business, evaluating motives, reasons, behavior, grading concepts, etc…. Sometimes it hurts, but it can’t be avoided. 5.- Maybe. 6.- Changing SRF and one’s own self are processes that happen contemporaneously. It’s not either/or. What might appear to be petty minutiae to you may in reality be a monstrous occurrence. We can and must become better, but it’s readily apparent that no matter how the members and vast majority of the monastic order improve spiritually or what they think, senior management has no interest in listening. We’re not talking about meditation groups here for the most part, some that function quite well, others miserably. It’s up on the hill from where the entire tone and direction originates. No one expects perfection from the organization. It’s up to each devotee to decide whether or not they are acting in a manner that inspires full trust in everything. Peace to you too. Edited by: True Enuf at: 5/23/03 3:15:02 pm
atthylotusfeet Registered User (5/23/03 5:09 pm) Reply	Re: Helping SRF Right the passage refers to the guru but the Guru started this organization for a reason, to disiminate his teachings. These are his teachings (the lessons, books etc.). If you don't like SRF fine leave, work toward solutions but don't add more fuel to the fire. If you've had an injury you try to heal it, the same goes a bad experience. Don't pour salt in the wound. I know Guruji would not approve of the way these issues are being discussed on this board. You may delude yourself but God knows and Guru knows what it real. I know this is not the prayer board but from spiritual experience we all should know that prayer is a very powerful healing tool. And if the goal here is to heal then that should be foremost in everyone's mind. Now if the real point of this board is to snipe, spread rumors, vent, be arrogantly ignorant spiritual fools then continue on the way you are. But if you want to heal follow the Guru's admonition. The Gita passage may have been directly related to Guru but it can also apply to other relationships. How much better off our relationships would be if we were not intent on fault-finding! Try it sometimes. I love you all and I wish you all the best. Om Guru, Om Guru, Om Guru.
True Enuf Registered User (5/23/03 5:44 pm) Reply	Re: Helping SRF Yes, these are his teachings. I don't have a problem with them, nor with idea of SRF per se. I think it will last for quite some time. It may implode before long, but out of the ashes it shall rise anew and for the better. Time tells (and reveals) all. I'm sure Master would not approve of some of the posts here. As for certain others, I wouldn't be so sure. I'm not fault-finding, I'm evaluating. You appear to have written your post in haste, reverting to the unmistakable style, complete with the usual errors in spelling, of Astral7. "be arrogantly ignorant spiritual fools..." You're angry. "I love you all and I wish you all the best." You're lying.
atthylotusfeet Registered User (5/23/03 6:07 pm) Reply	Re: Helping SRF First I am not astra7 or anyone else, you saw what my handle is. If this is an anonymous board then let it stay as such. Master said wise men discuss fools argue. that is all I am saying. You don't know me and I don't appreciate you calling me a liar. How Rude! How can you personally attack someone, say their lying and you don't even know them? You don't know what is in my heart. I wish you all the best. I just see where you are at (ignorance) because I have been there years ago. Angry at people, organizations etc. I am not angry, but I do feel that masters work is not being upheld or served here. I beleive that if an independant person who came to this board who knew nothing about SRF or the teachings they may run as far as possible because of the kind of messages that are here on this board from people proclaiming to be Masters chelas. I don't think this is what one would call a devotee. Even though you called me a liar it doesn't make me angry with you. But it does show how easily you can jump to conclusions without any fact or proof. Blessings to all. At thy Lotus Feet
dawnrays Registered User (5/23/03 6:09 pm) Reply	Re: Helping SRF I think that this board is very healthy and the posters very intelligent and articulate (and very spiritual). I am amazed at the intelligence and kindness displayed on this board by many who have been used, abused and spiritually bankrupt by srf. You should try to see the light. I think the that the commentary is very arrogant and narrow minded of you (and who are you, anyway?) Most of these posters have been very candid (including me) about their inside experiences. Many are ex-monks, nuns and employees. Most have spent years or even decades coming to their well thought out attitudes and conclusions. What is your background? You should be more candid in identifying yourself. It is neither very nice nor very spiritual to critisize and call names. People have a right to their grief, emotions and ideas. Most healthy discourse within the organization has been and is discouraged, as you well know. As for speaking for the Guru, how dare you presume such a thing. It is everyone's right and privilige to speak from thier own inner realization and experience. Guru would never discourage or forbid such a God given and yes, a beautiful thing. The fact that srf does, shows it does not (speak for the guru). Go back to your dark corner. No one believes you or believes you are sincere. All you want to do is start and argument (which you probably have done and are now cowardly returning under another ID). Shame on you for being so ingnorant. srf has been given more chances than it deserves. Guru no longer lives there (they kicked him out years ago, for thinking for himself). dawnrays Edited by: dawnrays at: 5/24/03 10:20:03 pm
atthylotusfeet Registered User (5/23/03 6:17 pm) Reply	Re: Helping SRF And you call me the angry one? Jai Guru, Jai Guru, Jai Guru! May God and Guru bless us all
atthylotusfeet Registered User (5/23/03 6:28 pm) Reply	Re: Helping SRF i forgot anyone who doesn't agree with the majority on this board is not reasonable, not rational, and a plant. And you really believe that this is what the Guru teaches? What happened to love, understanding, kindness, forgiveness, friendship, agreeably disagreeing? Why can't my opinion be rational if it differs with yours? Why must i be called a coward because I refuse to open my self to possible harrasment from people I don't know but already seemingly hostile toward me? I think I am using common sense here. Why is your truth the only truth? Who died and made you God for the day? (sarcasm) i've called no one names, just made statements, strong statements but not against you or others. I just showed what may happen if the current path on this board is continued. I am begging you to please stop making assumptions like: Go back to your dark corner. No one believes you or believes you are sincere. All you want to do is start and argument (which you probably have done, and cowardly are now returning under another ID). You are proving what you are here to do and it's not to find harmony. Until you know for a fact do not make accusatory statements like those. It is totally unfounded and untrue. I don't want to start arguements, remember I told you like master said, Fools argue wise men discuss. Why is arguing on your mind? My corner was dark for many lifetimes until Master shined his light on me. Jai Guru, Jai Guru, Jai Guru. At thy lotus Feet
dawnrays Registered User (5/23/03 6:59 pm) Reply	Re: Helping SRF I don't believe you. I don't even believe you are a devotee. What temples have you gone to? I might know you, I've been all over the U.S. to different temples and centers. You are not coming from a place of sincerity. You sound very naive. You have good reason to be afraid, but not from the people here. I think everything you say is a lie. If not, what is there to hide? dawnrays Edited by: dawnrays at: 5/24/03 7:37:49 am
soulcircle Registered User (5/24/03 6:33 pm) Reply	we couldn't agree with you more dawnrays, we couldn't agree with you more people here are givin specifics about their lives, people here are walking the walk when we say we care about each other at thy feet only says their is caring and loving from art thy feet, but at thy feet, we are not going to wait for you to walk the walk, we have limited time here, and are here to hear friends and support them thank you dawnrays for taking the time to establish the value of this board andthe absence of PY in SRF. in they feet, in your energy and abilities, please obtain and post on here ... a copy of srf's last annual statement....or some other material of value you attacks will gain fewer and fewer replies
member108 Registered User (5/25/03 6:14 am) Reply	Re: Helping SRF As one of the senior SRF monks once said, "No place is more in need of Master's teachings than SRF!"
dawnrays Registered User (5/25/03 8:40 am) Reply	Re: we couldn't agree with you more Thank you S.C., Master once told a devotee, "You aren't in srf, you ARE srf! Don't you think it's our duty to speak up? I'm glad Master did. I'll bet he was told to shut up a few times himself (but you notice he didn't). This board is in itself a solution at least for communications and interactions. If srf put more value on these things I doubt if it would be here. I believe that interaction and communication is important for the balanced person to function and meditate. Master was always stressing balance. srf does not practice what it preaches and refuses to see it's own members as whole and complex individuals (for whatever reason). Now if the organization cannot stand up to the cold, hard light of day as in shedding some light on it's own activities, then whose fault is that? I was wondering if there even were any intelligent or original thinkers in srf and I'm glad to see that there are. Love, dawnrays Edited by: dawnrays at: 5/26/03 3:09:24 pm
chuckle chela Registered User (5/25/03 9:33 pm) Reply	Re: Helping SRF: A reply to ATLF Dear ATLF, Thanks for your point of view; I think you make some very valid points. I can appreciate that much of the stuff you see on the Walrus is upsetting to you. I agree with you that there's more negativity than might be useful, and that it doesn't reflect well on Master's teachings. Indeed, I think those whose aim it is to warn others about SRF do themselves and their cause a disservice by posting really negative messages, calling people names and so on. I think True Enuf's first response to you was very good, and I support what was said there. Yes, the Walrus board is far, far from perfect. Like you, I wish there were less name-calling, anger, bitterness, and plain old carping. As much as I might like that, though, I understand the pain behind some of it. Moreover, as much as I might not like all the negativity, I've found that it was been good to listen to all that has been said. One concern I have with the attitude you espouse is that you appear to suggest that we never examine the actions of others, and that we just accept whatever comes our way. I don't believe that's a healthy attitude, nor do I believe it is one the Gita or Master teaches. Part of discrimination is learning to understand what is good, what is not, and adjusting one's behavior accordingly. The laissez-faire, "I'll just accept whatever comes" attitude you seem to espouse is, I think, a misunderstanding of renunciation and nonattachment, and it is an attitude that I think needs public examination and comment. It may be, though, that I have misunderstand you, and I welcome any attempt on your part to correct me. My feeling is that we all have a responsibility to think about all facets of SRF and examine its practices; to do anything less is immature. One of the difficulties I've seen is that we've been told over the years not to do this, not to concern ourselves with the welfare of the organization, and that there isn't any need to do this. I think this has been a misguided message, however well-intentioned it may have been, but that is just my opinion. As you may not be aware, a number of monastics still in the order--some of them quite senior--have expressed serious reservations about how SRF is and has been functioning. Like everyone else, though, they've been unable to affect much change, and they are, I suspect, in rather difficult situations--stuck between their vows and their concerns. Having talked with one or two of these monastics, I can tell you it isn't comfortable for them. I agree with True Enuf that the Walrus board does include plenty of positive suggestions and recommendations. Yes, as you alluded, there is plenty of negativity. One of the things I think it's important to understand, ATLF, is that the negativity is a manifestation of the utter frustration felt by those who tried for many months and years to right wrongs, cope with sufferings, amend errors, and cope with an environment at Mother Center that was at times surreal. There has also been some real pain felt by many. The anger you've see here is part of a grieving process, as dawnrays pointed out. Yes, at some point one has to get beyond the anger, but I certainly can't say when that will occur for others. Believe me, my friend, many people sincerely tried to do the right thing; many did try to work toward solutions. They wanted the best for Master's work. Alas, after bashing their heads against the wall repeatedly, many of them gave up and left, some because they had to leave to keep their sanity. Look what happened in the IT department: despite repeated warnings about the PeopleSoft problems, the leaders went ahead with implementing that system. Some monastic and lay members who warned of problems and costs were reprimanded, some ended up leaving. Net result: the program was a bust, finally had to be uninstalled, and millions of dollars--your dollars and my dollars--were literally wasted. I feel no joy at all in reporting any of this. I think it's a terrible thing that the Walrus even exists. But I would suggest we be a bit careful in dismissing it entirely; that's like just shooting the messenger. I remain convinced that some fundamental changes are needed in SRF for the good of us all. I welcome your willingness to discuss like wise people and to eschew argumentation. Allow me to respond to some of your numbered questions in your first post. Do we expect SRF to be run like a public corporation? In some respects, yes, I do. I think accountability is vital; public corporations must be accountable. If BOD members of these corporations behave badly, stockholders or public trustees can turf them out. Did Master ever ask members for input on running SRF? You bet he did. Dr. & Mrs. Lewis, Dr. Kennell, Oliver Black, Gene Benvau ... the list goes on and on. Boards of NPOs are accountable to the organizations they represent. I don't see why SRF should be any different. Yes, BODs of NPOs are elected by members to represent them; if they fail in this task, they're replaced. One of the difficulties leaders of any organization can face is that they become insular, cut off from others and from any feedback that might help them. They become subject to "groupthink," wherein they all reinforce one another's ideas and thoughts, without critical analysis. I agree with you about the gossip and ad hominems. You ask us to tune in with the Guru to see what changes might be needed. Many who have concerns about SRF's management are doing exactly that. It's a good idea you espouse here. You suggest that if people aren't happy with SRF they should leave. But that's exactly what's happening! People are leaving in significant numbers. When people have suggested that this decline in members might indicate that there are or have been problems, they've been told to shut up. While I would agree with you that the goal should be healing, you need to recognize that for some Walrus members, that goal no longer exists. They've left SRF and they couldn't care less about its welfare. While I hardly think this is a wonderful state of affairs, I find myself asking what could have caused so many to end up with such an attitude; I tend to think it's more than just a bunch of people who have a bad case of negativity. But perhaps I'm wrong. You wrote: " I am not angry, but I do feel that masters work is not being upheld or served here." Again, I appreciate how you feel, and it must be painful to see some of the stuff here. I know it is for me. But would you be willing to accept that a number of sincere members felt that master's work was not being upheld or served at Mother Center, as well? Do you think that all 40 or so monastics who left the order in the last two years were just whiners? If that's the case, then the monastics in charge of the postulants and the ashram admissions councils have done a terrible job in selecting and grooming monastics. When Bro. Vishwananda finally admits in public that the spirit of "only love" has been lost, do you think there might be a reason for that admission? Your points about prayer are well taken. I have always prayed for the welfare of the SRF organization and community. I shall continue to do so. If you wish to join forces, I'm more than happy to do this. Lastly, my friend, as far as I'm concerned, you're more than welcome here. I don't care who you are; your point of view is as valid as anyone else's. You and your point of view are worthy of as much respect as we would accord anyone else. I agree that discussion is better than argumentation. I look forward to discussing these matters with you.
atthylotusfeet Registered User (5/25/03 9:50 pm) Reply	Re: Helping SRF: A reply to ATLF Let's really use master's teachings to help SRF. I we really care about the well being of his work then try to really practice what he tells us such as the following: Paramahansa Yogananda, "The Divine Romance," pg. 406. God has sent you to me, and I shall never fail you...Even when I am gone my help will always be given to devotees all over the world, if they keep in tune. Never think for a moment that when I am physically absent from you all, I am not otherwise with you. I shall be just deeply concerned for your spiritual welfare when I am no longer in the body as I am now. I shall always be watching over each one of you, and whenever a true devotee thinks of me in the silent depths of his soul, he will know that I am near." Paramahansa Yogananda, quoted in the SRF calender, August, 1993. Ask for master's help I know with united sincere deep prayer and devotion that the Master's can change things. If they can raise the dead don't you think they can heal the members and leaders of SRF? At Thy Lotus Feet
True Enuf Registered User (5/25/03 9:52 pm) Reply	Re: Helping SRF: A reply to ATLF (This message was left blank) Edited by: True Enuf at: 5/25/03 9:56:34 pm
atthylotusfeet Registered User (5/25/03 10:04 pm) Reply	Re: Helping SRF: A reply to ATLF I know that it is time for me to leave this site although there may be a few here who are really looking for solutions that does not seem to be the sole purpose of most on this board. Again I do wish you all well. I hope that the name calling, and asumptions will end so that the real work may begin. Blind leading the blind into a ditch is no where for master's chela to be. So I say farewell and I wish you all the best. If you have left SRF for whatever reason that is your business. I hope that those of you who have accepted the Guru-Disciple Relationship and received Kriya understand and recognize that you have the keys to heaven. Don't give up. Don't forget Master is with us all and all we have to do is sincerely ask for his help and guidance. The Guru's are living and with you in each moment all you you have to do is tune in, they are right there. If you sincerely believe SRF needs help, ask for it collectively, sincerely, and deeply from the Masters, they will never fail you. Feel their presence within and all around you. Be honest, we all need change, and the major changes must take place within. God and Guru's bless all of you, Ellyn(At Thy Lotus Feet) Edited by: atthylotusfeet at: 5/25/03 10:28:13 pm
KS Registered User (5/26/03 6:07 am) Reply	Re: Helping SRF: A reply to ATLF If there was a burglar in your home you might sincerely pray that they learn what they are doing is wrong and pray that they find the strength to find their way in life. However, you would also want them out of your home right away. You would not pray that they SOMEDAY find their way out of your home without all your stuff! They should leave now! Likewise I pray that SRF goes away soon. I do pray that they find their way back to Master and that they become productive members of society and get back on the path toward God, but they need to stop what they are doing NOW. The degradation of our Master’s teachings, the destruction of his reputation in the eyes of so many wonderful devotees, the abuse of the monastics that come to them, and the financial drain on so many true disciples of Master’s must stop. I do pray for SRF. I pray the organization goes away. It will be a liberating experience for those currently in charge. Getting those Bad Ladies jobs at a Target or a gas station would do wonders for their attitudes and spritual life. Edited by: KS at: 5/26/03 6:08:37 am
dawnrays Registered User (5/26/03 7:31 am) Reply	Re: Helping SRF: A reply to ATLF And I think you are unbelievably condenscending and arrogant. If you don't listen to others (which you obviously don't) and least read your own posts with a critical eye. You don't address a single issue that was brought up by Chuckle Chela or True Enuf. How about the hundreds of others on this board? No actually solutions ARE NOT the sole reason for this board. I've read more factual information than I care to know (clears up the real rumor mill which is srf, I'm afraid). Let's see where did I first hear the RUMOR that daya lived in an ashram, that they walked on threadbare carpets (for the members sake, dear ones.) So they may have enough left over for what, multi-million dollar lawsuits that nobody is allowed to talk about or refer to? How about the rumors that daya was a self-realized saint, Master did not want spiritual communities for householders, renunciants were superior (on the fast track) to God, etc.... You are not listening. They made several points that you didn't even bother to respond to. How about other points? What "rumors" and "carping" are you referring to? Are you trying to say that a person cannot open his mouth to talk about his experiences, ideas or emotions? This to you is "carping" and "spreading rumors?" You are hearing only what you want to hear and putting false and insulting labels on what you do. And you dare to pretend to be insulted? What do you think you've been spewing ever since your first post? I only see Ellyn or ATLF coming up with a bunch quotes (guess what, I have read Master's works too and I don't use them as weapons). That's an old fundamentalist preacher's trick and it means you are covering up your ignorance with somebody else's intelligence. Where and what is your experience? Where is YOUR realization? How do you come to your conclusions? You are extremely vague and cagey for somebody so devoted to truth. Can you not shine a little light on yourself for a moment? Master is not there for you to hide behind and throw rocks. Go back to the temple or where ever. You won't get anywhere near the attention there that you got here, if that's what you're (obviously) looking for. You also don't fool me Ellyn, with you little "holier than thou" attitude. Sorry, but that's the TRUTH as I see it. You should give the (srf) Board lessons on false sincerity, now THERE you are a Master. By the way, you are not as unusual as you think. The temples are full of people like you. You will be in good company so enjoy yourself. dawnrays Edited by: dawnrays at: 5/26/03 10:12:41 pm
atthylotusfeet Registered User (5/26/03 8:19 am) Reply	Re: Helping SRF: A reply to ATLF 1. Rajarsi and master got assistance from those who were sincere and deeply devoted to master and the teachings. Not Spiritual infants (the likes who perpetuate the ideas of this board). Why would Master, Rajarsi, or the current board come to back biting, rumor mongering, angry turn coats like some of those here? Trueenuf Said: < Master and Rajasi NEVER, I repeat, NEVER mismanaged SRF to the extent we’re seeing now, even though Master tried to achieve all manner of different things, some with success, some that failed.> there was a period during masters lifetime where many left the teachings, or when he gave the techniques and the people whom he initiated were later no where to be found. Does this mean that master mismanaged SRF or that he was doing something wrong? No it says something about the so called devotee! If you seemed sincere and looking for a real solution maybe someone would listen. But it seems like a bunch of complaints and very few valid solutions to your problems. Not everyone on this board is clueless though. There are a few who are truly sincere, and for those of you that are sincere and want to seek answers in your heart you know they are not to be found here on this board. Go within, go meditate, give it to God and Guru's and there is where you divine solution is. After that you must take right action. Don't let the supposed "devotees" on this board lead you into a pit of darkness . 2. there is a section of this board asking for rumors. There is even a poll asking others to tell who they assume writes Daya Mata's books, and letters. Is this in the spirit of helping SRF? Is this following master's guidance? Is this what you learned from meditating? 3. I quote masters writings because I have had realizations of what they mean. I don't believe that I have to share my realization with you (for I don't believe that you have the capacity to overstand it). But my hope is that you will use the quotes, meditate on them and come to your own divine realization. Instead of speculations, innuendo, gossip and rumor. Try meditation it really works for the sincere devotee! 4. Why would I want to hear rumors and back biting? It is not why I came here. I came here hoping that people would get back to masters teachings instead of continuing in the misguided manner that is characteristic of this board. But hey it's apparent that many people on this board are not sincere about master's teachings. You have cast them out of your minds a long time ago. You have cast God and Guru out of your temples. Truenuf said:<3.- BODs of NPOs have been known to make 180 degree turns, as membership or donations decline for good reason. American Red Cross and United Way ring a bell?> Is this a fact that donations are declining? If so do we know why? Does it perhaps have to do with the economy which most religious groups (and others) are seeming to be suffering from right now (since sept 11th)? Remember a+b does not equal C. Truenuf said: <Rumors and gossip may abound on this chat board. However, many of the events depicted here have occurred and been witnessed first hand> You said it yourself rumors and gossip are on this board. Why would a discriminating devotee not question what you or others claim to be true if many on this site perpetuate rumors, gossip, anger, and hostility? Truenuf said: <6.- Changing SRF and one’s own self are processes that happen contemporaneously. It’s not either/or. What might appear to be petty minutiae to you may in reality be a monstrous occurrence. We can and must become better, but it’s readily apparent that no matter how the members and vast majority of the monastic order improve spiritually or what they think, senior management has no interest in listening. > You have to realize that out of maybe a million or more devotee's this happens to be the experience of a few. Even during Guruji's lifetime many ran away or left. You can't expect to have all people identify with your bad experience as the truth of what SRF really is. Many people have been helped by SRF and just don't have the same opinion. I'm not saying that your experience or interpretation there of is invalid but I am saying we all have to come to our own conclusions about SRF. Going over the same tired stories of how bad the ladies are and how bad you were treated is not going to help you. If you wallow in self pity how can you ever rise above it. It's like this (in my opinion) : When my dad died 6 months ago I could have stay in the mind frame of oh woe is me. Have pity for me my father passed away and I am so sad. But I knew that this was not the best way honor him or our relationship. So instead I decided to keep on living, relishing the wonderful memories we had together, writing to him and sharing my grief of losing him in my journal to privately help me through my grieving. I decided that no amount of suffer would drive me back to the self pity consciousness ever again. Of course sometimes I cried, sometimes I was agry but the key is not to let yourself wallow in that sadness, or anger. You must use it to propel your growth not stagnate it. It's up to you, do you want to wallow in it? Oh I am hurt, SRF is bad. Or do you want to pick yourself up move on and grow? In Divine Friendship, From one who is praying for all, Ellyn (ATLF) Edited by: atthylotusfeet at: 5/26/03 8:36:38 am
dawnrays Registered User (5/26/03 8:44 am) Reply	Re: Helping SRF: A reply to ATLF Dear Ellyn, Yes and I know it's terrible to lose your dad (I lost mine also, many years ago). Many people have come to srf after similiar tragic circumstances. This first part of your true self you have shared so far. Perhaps you are grieving now? Please have sympathy and back off a little from others who are doing the same. To deny a person thier grief and feelings is a very dangerous thing. Sharing and support is also what this board is about. I know this may not be the atmosphere that you are used to or one that is promoted at the temple or where ever you go, but it is healthy and healing for some people. It's a little messy and not quite as clean as a temple service or meditation (which I like too) but it is a necessary part of some people's healing process. You must understand the extent of the betrayal that many devotees feel. I felt it. If there is a little gossip, I think we need to see it as some people just needing to lighten up. Nobody expects perfection (it is sort of an illusion anyway, unless you are talking about a diamond cut or a mint condition baseball card). It is usually in the eye of the beholder. I honestly believe that daya ma is pursuing her vision of srf. However, it is not everybody's. She has taken some very inappropriate and damaging liberties. Even this is not unusual in that if you look at history and what happened in the early days of the church. As a matter of fact, what we think of Christianity now is actually (I believe it's called zoastranism) but correct me. It stresses dualism not the oneness which Christ taught. It came about in the second century. Oh well, I think you need to believe that we all love Master (I am here at this board when I should be taking my kids somewhere) and I'll be off soon. We are looking out for His interests. I also think you are a little hard on yourself and perhaps that's why you are a little hard on others also. Do remember to grieve and don't put it off, it may come back to haunt you. Believe me, it does not contradict your meditation or spiritual growth. It's a part of life and growth and honoring yourself (and the God in yourself). God and guru love us all very much. Actually I think you would see a lot of love on this board if you could open up a little more (as you have just done, a very little). There is a lot of EVERYTHING on this board and believe me, God and guru want it all. Love, dawnrays Edited by: dawnrays at: 5/26/03 9:25:34 am
soulcircle Registered User (5/26/03 8:58 am) Reply	we saw this coming Guests, dawnrays and All Friends, We saw this coming. I almost had the chance to read dawnrays' biographical post.....about SRF mistreats families, in the Treatment of Members/Monastics to thirty people at a listening Seminar with two monks at Richmond Chapel. You see dawnrays' post, mentioned above, ~~~~~~~~~~~~~landed on SRF. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ They suffered from so much truth being brought to light, from "SRF's treatment of Families!" Well it's no news......at thy feet is their expected response, if they feel it is inadequate [responding in here], they will even respond in Self-Realization magazine. We saw it coming! And believe me whether at thy feet lost their father or not, let's assume there was a loss, and our prayers go out [By the Way at thy feet, see the "I need advice section," see "What is truth!"....you will see that a Prayer Circle does exist within the participants and guests of this board] ~~~~We will be prayiing for you Reining ourselves in and getting back on track. Every word coming from at thy feet will be PURE srf public relations. Just like the staging [so poorly done] that this is the religion of the age, that daya mata walks on water, and that monastics don't shake hands as a standard operating procedure cause touching devotees lowers their vibrations.........JUST like all this ...at thy voice is public relations from the get go .......the less I respond, ~~~~~~~~the less I am in direct dialogue with SRF, and the more I am in communitiy with guests, dawnrays and all ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ and you all are a very loving community thank goodness for each guest and friend here, in the past, the future and now! friends circle

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