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SRF Walrus > What can we do to help SRF? > Let us be realistic
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Realistananda Unregistered User (10/9/01 12:21 am) Reply	Let us be realistic The issue - one size fits all (one poaradigm fits all) - is absolutely central to the problems we have all experienced; but it is a common false assumption in all sects, cults and churches, not SRF alone. Ussually it even includes discouraging their followers to search for the truth beyond their particular paradigm. This is not just SRF, I repeat, it is all sects, cults and even churches policy. It has historically being like this and I doubt it will change. We are responsible for taking part in a sect, or cult, or church without due precautions in protecting our free thinking sanctuary. It is also important to keep in mind that many sects and cults have great materials and information available, but WE have to discriminate and if WE want to go into a cult, we better go knowing what we are doing and how we do it. This is not a game for children and that is what we most were when we began in SRF -- children! Now we are adults and we have learned the hard way, the only way we all learn in this planet! But this lesson is valuable and we can make good use of it -- in this and possibly future incarnations. A teacher I had in psychology said one day, "the Scientologies have very good material, but in a cult form." Fortunately SRF is not such a dangerous cult as scientologist, but still, it is a church at least, and a church is a church is a church. SRF also has extraordinary valuable information that we can use for succeeding at all levels -- including finding God. But most people cannot swallow the whole paradigm indiscriminately if they want results, of course. I have heard Br. Anandamoy saying that SRF teachings are "a recipe." He also said to a friend of mine who was entering the Ashram that SRF is like a "concrete mixer" and there is no time to give anyone a personalized training. However, paradoxically, Mrinalini Mata says in her last video that Master was giving "a different training to each disciple." Why? because we all need a diffferent training; obviously. We are all different and very unique individuals with unique needs. So, no "recipe" will do the whole job! We need to take from the "recipe" what is helpful (and there is plenty) for our particular nature, and look for our other needs somewhere else -- including other paradigms! << "Ought it to be assumed that in all men the mixture of religion with other elements should be identical? Ought it, indeed, to be assumed that the lives of all men should show identical religious elements? In other words, is the existence of so many religious types and sects and creeds regrettable? To these questions I answer "No" emphatically. And my reason is that I do not see how it is possible that creatures in such different positions and with such different powers as human individuals are, should have exactly the same functions nor should we be expected to work out identical solutions. Each, from his peculiar angle of observation, takes in a certain sphere of fact and trouble, which each must deal with in a unique manner."William James, The Varieties of Religious Experience, 1902 / Mentor edition, 1958, page 368 We are responsible for taking part in a sect, or cult, or church without due precautions in protecting our free thinking sanctuary. For our own good, let us stop playing the victim and take responsibility for our decissions in life!
xmonk Unregistered User (10/9/01 5:15 am) Reply	Realistic Realistananda, I think you need to be realistic. Please read the following posting by Raja Begum. The wisdom shown by Jiddu Krishnamurti should be absorbed by all of us. The answers that we seek are not to be found in any religious organization. What is found in any of those organizations is what someone else has determined our spirituality should be. THAT is not realistic. ------------------------------------------------------- Transcending Organizations. What follows is the speech made by Jiddu Krishnamurti in 1929 when he dissolved the Order of the Star. The Order of the Star was the organisation built around Krishnamurti by Theosophists who selected him at the age of 13 to be the vehicle for the return of the Christ, or Maitreya. He was raised accordingly, but after his enlightment, he refused the role that has been prepared for him, disbanded the organisation of which he was the head, and continued to teach on his own. His speech was made during the Dutch Camp of Ommen, in front of more than three thousand Star members, and with many thousands of Dutch people listening on the radio. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ We are going to discuss this morning the dissolution of the Order of the Star. Many will be delighted, and others will be rather sad. It is a question neither for rejoicing nor for sadness, because it is inevitable, as I am going to explain.... I maintain that Truth is a pathless land, and you cannot approach it by any path whatsoever, by any religion, by any sect. That is my point of view, and I adhere to that absolutely and unconditionally. Truth, being limitless, unconditioned, unapproachable by any path whatsoever, cannot be organised; nor should any organisation be formed to lead or coerce people along any particular path. If you first understand that, then you will see how impossible it is to organise a belief. A belief is purely an individual matter, and you cannot and must not organise it. If you do, it becomes dead, crystallised; it becomes a creed, a sect, a religion, to be imposed on others. This is what everyone throughout the world is attempting to do. Truth is narrowed down and made a plaything for those who are weak, for those who are only momentarily discontented. Truth cannot be brought down, rather the individual must make the effort to ascend to it. You cannot bring the mountain-top to the valley.... So that is the first reason, from my point of view, why the Order of the Star should be dissolved. In spite of this, you will probably form other Orders, you will continue to belong to other organisations searching for Truth. I do not want to belong to any organisation of a spiritual kind; please understand this.... If an organisation be created for this purpose, it becomes a crutch, a weakness, a bondage, and must cripple the individual, and prevent him from growing, from establishing his uniqueness, which lies in the discovery for himself of that absolute, unconditioned Truth. So that is another reason why I have decided, as I happen to be the Head of the Order, to dissolve it. This is no magnificent deed, because I do not want followers, and I mean this. The moment you follow someone you cease to follow Truth. I am not concerned whether you pay attention to what I say or not. I want to do a certain thing in the world and I am going to do it with unwavering concentration. I am concerning myself with only one essential thing: to set man free. I desire to free him from all cages, from all fears, and not to found religions, new sects, nor to establish new theories and new philosophies. Then you will naturally ask me why I go the world over, continually speaking. I will tell you for what reason I do this; not because I desire a following, not because I desire a special group of special disciples. (How men love to be different from their fellow-men, however ridiculous, absurd and trivial their distinctions, may be! I do not want to encourage that absurdity.) I have no disciples, no apostles, either on earth or in the realm of spirituality. Nor is it the lure of money, nor the desire to live a comfortable life, which attracts me. If I wanted to lead a comfortable life I would not come to a Camp or live in a damp country! I am speaking frankly because I want this settled once and for all. I do not want these childish discussion year after year. A newspaper reporter, who interviewed me, considered it a magnificent act to dissolve an organisation in which there were thousands and thousands of members. To him it was a great act because he said: "What will you do afterwards, how will you live? You will have no following, people will no longer listen to you." If there are only five people who will listen, who will live, who have their faces turned towards eternity, it will be sufficient. Of what use is it to have thousands who do not understand, who are fully embalmed in prejudice, who do not want the new, but would rather translate the new to suit their own sterile, stagnant selves?.... Because I am free, unconditioned, whole, not the part, not the relative, but the whole Truth that is eternal, I desire those, who seek to understand me, to be free, not to follow me, not to make out of me a cage which will become a religion, a sect. Rather should they be free from all fears - from the fear of religion, from the fear of salvation, from the fear of spirituality, from the fear of love, from the fear of death, from the fear of life itself. As an artist paints a picture because he takes delight in that painting, because it is his self-expression, his glory, his well-being, so I do this and not because I want any thing from anyone. You are accustomed to authority, or to the atmosphere of authority which you think will lead you to spirituality. You think and hope that another can, by his extraordinary powers - a miracle - transport you to this realm of eternal freedom which is Happiness. Your whole outlook on life is based on that authority. You have listened to me for three years now, without any change taking place except in the few. Now analyse what I am saying, be critical, so that you may understand thoroughly, fundamentally.... For eighteen years you have been preparing for this event, for the Coming of the World Teacher. For eighteen years you have organised, you have looked for someone who would give a new delight to your hearts and minds, who would transform your whole life, who would give you a new understanding; for someone who would raise you to a new plane of life, who would give you new encouragement, who would set you free - and now look what is happening! Consider, reason with yourselves, and discover in what way that belief has made you different - not with the superficial difference of the wearing of a badge, which is trivial, absurd. In what manner has such a belief swept away all unessential things of life? That is the only way to judge: in what way are you freer, greater, more dangerous to every society which is based on the false and the unessential? In what way have the members of this organisation of the Star become different?.... You are all depending for your spirituality on someone else, for your happiness on someone else, for your enlightenment on someone else.... when I say look within yourselves for the enlightenment, for the glory, for the purification, and for the incorruptibility of the self, not one of you is willing to do it. There may be a few, but very, very few. So why have an organisation?.... No man from outside can make you free; nor can organised worship, nor the immolation of yourselves for a cause, make you free; nor can forming yourselves into an organisation, nor throwing yourselves into work, make you free. You use a typewriter to write letters, but you do not put it on an alter and worship it. But that is what you are doing when organisations become your chief concern. "How many members are there in it?" That is the first question I am asked by all newspaper reporters. "How many followers have you? By their number we shall judge whether what you say is true or false." I do not know how many there are. I am not concerned with that. If there were even one man who had been set free, that were enough.... Again, you have the idea that only certain people hold the key to the Kingdom of Happiness. No one holds it. No one has the authority to hold that key. That key is your own self, and in the development and the purification and in the incorruptibility of that self alone is the Kingdom of Eternity.... You have been accustomed to being told how far you have advanced, what is your spiritual status. How childish! Who but yourself can tell you if you are incorruptible?.... But those who really desire to understand, who are looking to find that which is eternal, without a beginning and without an end, will walk together with greater intensity, will be a danger to everything that is unessential, to unrealities, to shadows. And they will concentrate, they will become the flame, because they understand. Such a body we must create, and that is my purpose. Because of that true friendship - which you do not seem to know - there will be real co-operation on the part of each one. And this not because of authority, not because of salvation, but because you really understand, and hence are capable of living in the eternal. This is a greater thing than all pleasure, than all sacrifice. So those are some of the reasons why, after careful consideration for two years, I have made this decision. It is not from a momentary impulse. I have not been persuaded to it by anyone - I am not persuaded in such things. For two years I have been thinking about this, slowly, carefully, patiently, and I have now decided to disband the Order, as I happen to be its Head. You can form other organisations and expect someone else. With that I am not concerned, nor with creating new cages, new decorations for those cages. My only concern is to set men absolutely, unconditionally free.
KS Unregistered User (10/9/01 6:57 am) Reply	Bad Ladies Is Realistananda saying that the bad ladies are not to blame for what they have done to SRF, the monastics and employees, not too mention Master�s teachings? I am starting to see the inherent problem with a spiritual organization. They have a place, but there must be extreme caution use to make sure they keep their humble place. But to excuse the abusive, selfish, destructive behavior of the bad ladies as our fault for following them, is a partial view of the problem. Yes, we should have seen it earlier. We thought we had found the religion of the new age and all the others were following cults!
Realistananda Unregistered User (10/9/01 9:42 pm) Reply	Bad Ladies Dear KS. Thanks for your reply. You say: We thought we had found the religion of the new age and all the others were following cults! Yes, but is time to stop dreaming. SRF is a great church, but it is a church; and a church is a church is a church -- Realistananda
Realistananda Unregistered User (10/9/01 11:12 pm) Reply	about "Realistic" Dear Xmonk Thanks for taking time to answer my perspective "let us be realistic." I hope I didn't hurt your feelings by being so direct. I know that if you are an ex monk, the issue we are discussing may be quite painful for you -- and I honor and respect your pain. It is also for me, but at least I have never been in the monastery -- I was saved by the Providence! However, my intention is to help, because I have found healing in the thoughts I expressed in that letter. I also agree with Kishnamurti's thoughts. In fact, Raja Begun and I discussed those ideas before he uploaded them. But at the same time, we need different perspectives at different times along the path to God. I read those thoughts by Krishnamurti many years ago and I was not ready -- I dismissed them. Only today I can understand them. Our passing through SRF has been or is extremely valuable, but there are things SRF can't give to us, neither Krishnamurti -- and he recognizes that impotence (of organizations) too. Our path is so unique that we are forced to look for very particular stepping stones of knowledge that only God and Guru can bring to our attention. It can be through a book, a talk, a workshop and so on. To me books have been my best source, and I pray to Master to lead me to the next book that I need. But I keep my Kriya practice, because I believe that books alone will not do it. And I apply the best I can what I learn in the best books, because otherwise in becomes just intelectual curiosity. I'm of the opinion that in regard to this SRF problem, our thinking should be pragmatic to the extreme, in the sense that SRF is no longer a spiritual path only, it has become a church and we better assume that. And churches are like that you know. I regreat this realization, but I doubt that a church can be better than what we have -- most are worse and even more rigid, and they do not offer such incredibly valuable information and techniques. Organizations suck at all levels, everywhere! But we cannot do without them! Krishnamurti's perspective is valuable but limited too! What could we do without organizations in a world with 6 billion people? Or, how I love to go to Encinitas for a retreat and pay such a reasonable fee thanks to an organization! Every window to reality is limited because reality is bigger than all windows. SRF teachings are one perspective, one window, a very valuable one, we can learn a lot of things from it, but it is just that -- a window, not reality itself! My greetings and respect to you.

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