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SRF Walrus > What can we do to help SRF? > hello everybody
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Amidala of Coruscant Registered User (3/24/03 6:48 pm) Reply	hello everybody \|This is my first time on the forum so I'm just learning how to use it. I am here because I need the assurance that Master understands me even if I just can't handle going to the temple anymore. I love him very much and am a kriyaban for 10 years but I have been suffering silently and had no one to talk to about it. Has anyone here ever had some authentic assurance from Master directly. Did he come to any of you to comfort you when you apologized to him for not going to the temple anymore? MC says that if you stop going to the temple that you will cut yourself off from Master's blessings but I truly honestly can't see Master in my Afterlife reprimanding me for not going to temple. I just really can't see it. I can't see the Lord condemning me just because I feel closer to Master to do kriya at home on my own and share satsang in other groups instead of SRF. I have gone for 10 years and still feel I never made any lasting friendships. It's always the same thing. At temple they would ask me if I'm working (after I told them every single time that I have other interests besides how I earn my living . I love music and I'm writing a novel on Egypt etc.) Then if I shared my interests with them they'd be all "Hi Bye Gotta run!" It hurt me so much to go through the same thing week after week and not have any real friends in fact I was believing that maybe it was wrong for me to want to have any friends. Then when I stopped going to SRF service days and took Egyptian dance classes instead (I have so many unique interests that SRF devotees would probabllyl think of as pagan) I made friends with someone who is now my best friend. She sees visions of Master and does Taii Chi but she'd never join the SRF temple. Through her I am perhaps learning that Master does indeed want me to have friends and it is not wrong to want to talk to someone and share with others the gifts that are so close to my heart. I love playing drum and sometimes lead the SYDA music department. When I wanted to serve Master with my drumming, the kirtan people kicked me out even though Br Satyananda told me I played really well. When he saw that others didn't want me in the group, he totally stopped supporting my love for music too. Please someone assure me that Master understands me. I tell him sorry everyday but I just can't go anymore to temple. I love him and I love kriya. To me, his techniques are like buried treasure that cannot be exhausted. Each time I do Kriya the Shakti gets stronger so I know that part works, but I think the organization part has caused me pain and I just have to let that go in order to keep a positive strong conncection with Master. Still I remember the stories of how Master told Daya Ma to go to the group meditation even if she didn't want to. That's where my conflict is. Yet I'd rather break the lesser rule of attending temple than break the essential rule that it is important to love God and Guru without fear and with complete ease. If I continued going to temple, I would only be doing it out of fear and I told God and Guru "I cannot love You that way. I'd rather live my life loving You from my heart and break all the rules than live a perfect life breaking no rule but not feeling that sweet inner connection with the Divine. Amidala Master's Jedi Padawan PS Since I'm new to using forums maybe someone could tell me how to use the faces to the right. Thanks
True Enuf Registered User (3/24/03 7:54 pm) Reply	Re: hello everybody Queen Amidala, welcome! I can't help you with the faces because I haven't used them in my brief time on the Walrus board. I find group meditation valuable. Here's a suggestion: perhaps you could simply come and go silently from the SRF temple, whenever you wish to meditate with them, maybe during the longer meditations. That is after all the primary raison d'etre for a temple and plenty of people do just that. You are under no obligation to answer anyone's questions nor attend only according to certain notions of how the ideal devotee should participate. There are two terms you mention 1) group meditation, which Master advocated 2) attending temple, which includes but is not limited to group meditation. There are no cosmically set hard and fast rules about which services and how frequently to attend. You do as you see fit. As far as friendship and socializing, it seems you're doing OK in that area, seeking out forums that are more amenable and in sync with yourself. God and Master love and understand you, unquestionably. Now if you can be simultaneously thankful for the existence of a meditation group, while remaining calm, utterly untroubled and forgiving of obnoxious behavior, you will soar away into Spirit, Oh Queen, and I will kneel at your feet. :-)
RolandP Registered User (3/25/03 3:54 am) Reply	Master Is Here I have never been involved with the SRF organisation other than following the correspondence course, and I have always distrusted organised religion. What I can assure you of however is that master is there. I met a realised woman in India to whom PY manifests to teach her personally. So he has indeed kept his promise of guiding all who follow him. To me this is proof of his love for all of us. I spent several weeks with her and I know beyond a shadow of doubt the authenticity of what she says. She's extraordinary! Interestingly enough she has never been to the SRF temples. She found realisation through the correspondence courses. The advantage she had over the rest of us is that she spent 20 years practicing yoga and 10 years living the life of a Sadhu before she came across autobiography (and subsequently started the courses). I believe this is the difference, she was already advanced enough to grasp the spirit (rather than the letter) of the teachings. As for your unhappyness, just remember that God is the perfect designer and has made us in his image. If you have any healthy interests just remember that your interests are also in the image of God - so just following them and refuse to justify such things to anyone bar God. Funny thing is only this morning I was thinking about posting a thread enquiring whether anyone directly involved with the SRF (post PY) has gained true higher realisation. And you started the thread for me. Edited by: RolandP at: 3/25/03 7:21:03 am
Borg108 Registered User (3/25/03 8:09 am) Reply	Re: Master Is Here RolandP, When I was in India I heard about a woman like this who lives near Hyderabad. Is this the same one? I also know of a saintly woman in Hardwar who is in close contact with Lahiri Mahasaya. I would appreciate it if you could private message me with who and where the woman is that you met. I'd like to visit her on my next trip to India. Thanks.
RolandP Registered User (3/25/03 8:30 am) Reply	Re: Master Is Here Borg I pressed on your name and it said your email is private. Drop me an email. I will have to write to her first to ask for permission. Roland Edited by: RolandP at: 3/26/03 2:15:39 am
astral7 Astral7 Level (3/25/03 10:47 pm) Reply	Re: hello everybody It is sad that after 10 years you were unable to make friendships at the temple, most others do not run into this problem. As far as master & the after-life, or being cut off from blessings, it is not Him, but the devotee who determins the degree of attunement with Him and the attendant blessings. His love is unconditional. But we restrict His blessings if we are to ego bound to listen to and work with the Guru - the God-realized teacher & friend of all friends. It is completely inseperable in His teachings that we try to get along with each other - especially in a SRF Meditation setting. Part of our sadhana is to meet with SRF groups if possible. After all - you are not going there to be with others in the normal way, but in a spiritual way. Who knows why friendships are made or not made, people are strange that way? Yogananda's teachings on true friendship are wonderful, study this from the SRF Lessons and the three books on his talks MEQ, DR, JT Self-Realization. When you learn his teachings on Friendship, & it will happen to you more often in a beautiful way. The suggestions made about attending SRF meditations in a quiet way sounds very good. Although, if you feel you can honestly make greater progress in your Sadhana on your own without groups, while still loyally supporting master's SRF work in any way you can - that would be good too. You no doubt are making up for one thing by excelling in others. This is the beautiful thing about this path, it can be approached in varying ways, as long as one really understands what one is doing. Yogananda does often say that being connected with SRF - his church, is being connected with Him. He still works through SRF in a powerful way. When I was first studying Yoga, my dad would mock it saying,"those people don't know anything - they just eat bugs." Little did he realize how wrong his view was. Yes, Yogananda does help us and directly responds to us in a whole range of ways. There are at least thousands of witnesses. Such is the nature & function of a Living Guru. astral7 Edited by: astral7 at: 3/27/03 11:21:42 am
Amidala of Coruscant Registered User (3/26/03 8:50 pm) Reply	Re: hello everybody Thanks very much for your help. I agree that maybe in a few months I probably would go back to the temple just to meditate. I make a lot of friends in other places but for some reason I felt like devotees have a gottarun type personality. I did have friends during my 10 years but it was always very shallow. Everyone would always have to rush or only identify me as how I earn my living. Others at temple would sit with other friends but I rarely had this in the SRF community and only occasionally. In other places, I easily make friends and spiritual connections. Come to think of it I guess it's a lot like the way Anakin felt when dealing with the Jedi Council. Part of it is also things I need to work through. I relate to the way Anakin had special gifts and really had his ego blown away when the Council "ignored" it. I want to thank Roland for his story about the Indian lady that Master personally comes to guide. What is the specific story about her? Are there any stories you could share?
Amidala of Coruscant Registered User (3/26/03 9:17 pm) Reply	Re: hello everybody Astral 7! Ahhh! So you're the one!!!!! Hello, are you a brahmacharini? You must be one of the young lady nuns at MC checking out our website. Don't punch my name into your MC data base. I like to increase my kriyas so don't start giving bad reports about me. I assure you that I love Master very much but I'm sorry. I get drained at Sunday Services. At first I feel wonderful especially when a monk leads us through a great meditation, but then immediately afterward all the energy is sucked out when high heeled ladies start talking about Good Housekeeping and Chicken Soup for the Soul week after week. Actually I do have special connections with SRF devotees but it seems they're devotees who don't attend the temple and they relate to Master in their own special way. And honestly I get so upset that SRF feels they have to hide Master's beautiful big picture in the usher's closet except for special occasions. I know why they do it!!! They hide Master because they're afraid that some newcomer might they we're a cult!!! WHO CARES WHAT OTHERS THINK ABOUT MASTER? WE SHOULD BE PROUD OF HIM! When you love someone, you are proud of him! You don't hide him in a closet and outlaw bhajans that sing his sweet name! If I could get away with it, I would lead some of my other Yogananda devotee friends from the Kali and Krishna Mandirs, and we would do a procession walking right around the temple! Bhakti is where it's at!!!! And let us sit on the floor!!!! Stop forcing us to sit in chairs!!!! And stop telling us that we're disloyal to Master when we sing a chant that's not in the blue book! I'm not yelling at you personally. I think it's great that you're loyal to Master in the way that you feel is right and I know SRF is working very hard to preserve the blessed teachings from being altered, but when it comes to music and culture and his picture, come on! Let it shine proudly!!! Om Namah Shivaya Gurave Sat Guru Nathaya Paramahansa Yoganandaya!!!!!! My Guru is beautiful and we ought to do a majestic procession for him here in America too instead of acting like conservatives in the Christian coalition! May the Force be with you. A fellow padawan of our Master
stermejo Registered User (3/30/03 12:44 pm) Reply	Re: hello everybody Hi Amidala! A7 is not ONE anything that slick sucker; slicker than snot. Hey, I guess you learned to use the faces:-) No, do not go to Temple if you have no benefit. STOP being sorry! I know many longtime devotees who have better things to do of a Sunday. To contradict A now a7, ...may I say...a very young soul (Oh I HATE that designation), this IS common. Striking thing is, I have found temple socializing to fit the very same pattern. I have been in SRF many more years than yourself and had opportunity to visit and / or live by several temples and meditation groups. May the force be with you!
Amidala of Coruscant Registered User (3/30/03 10:44 pm) Reply	Re: hello everybody Well don't get Astral 7 off the board. Therapists recommend that when you are angry at someone to use a chair and imagine that the person you are mad at is sitting in that chair and you are talking to that person. It really helps to know we're talking TO an actual person who represents 100 percent the part of SRF that we're trying to find peace with. We're letting it out. It feels like I'm talking directly to MC and telling them what I feel when for so long I've felt so intimidated and always afraid to call them and hurt that they would write personal letters to those in the inner circle but would hand my letters to be answered by a lay disciple. For so long I was that sweet nice devotee that stayed quiet and in the back, but oh if I started talking, they would be afraid to be seen with me because I'm such a freespirit and I go anywhere I want to chant. People often would come up to me and quickly say how much they admire me and how they think I've inspired them but then they always seemed scared and would tell me they have to run. Edited by: Amidala of Coruscant at: 4/2/03 5:46:59 pm
chela2020 Registered User (6/1/03 6:29 am) Reply	Re: hello everybody (This message was left blank) Edited by: chela2020 at: 7/1/03 6:10 pm
ranger20 Registered User (6/5/03 11:46 am) Reply	Re: hello everybody Amidala, Yours is a very sad post, that finally prompted me, after several months of lurking, to sign on. [quote]MC says that if you stop going to the temple that you will cut yourself off from Master's blessings[/quote] I've never heard this one, probably because I'm near a center rather than a temple. But I know it's a shift in "official" teaching. I remember a Convocation in the late 80's, in which Bro. Bhaktananda answered a satsanga question along the lines of "Why have I been feeling disconnected from Master?" Bro. B mentioned prayer and meditation of course, and then went on to recommend reading "at least one or two pages of Master's writings every day." He quoted Master, "when I am gone, the teachings will be the guru." According to my notes, he said nothing at all about church attendance. [quote]Has anyone here ever had some authentic assurance from Master directly[/quote] Yes, from perhaps a parallel issue. Before I read the AY, I thought I was "done" with Christianity, based on an average white bread, protestant upbringing, that turned out to have little or nothing to do with "real" life. After enrolling for the lessons, my attitude became positive, but I still had no particular interest. That was 20+ years ago. Some 5 years ago, I started to feel a real pull back in that direction. Kind of like revisiting my spiritual roots, or as TS Eliot put it: "We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to return to the place where we started and know it for the first time." Initially, and with a significant feeling of guilt, I'd slip into a Christian church for Christmas and Easter services. Anglican churches at that, though it was not how I was raised, but the ritual and the sense of the cycle of the liturgical year was something I found satisfying on a pretty deep level. This year, for various reasons, I really wanted to go to the Ash Wednesday service, to formally observe Lent. Several days before, at the end of my evening meditations, I asked, "Master, is that real bad?" I did not have to wait too long before the thought came strongly to mind, "God appreciates all movements toward him." Now I accept that as the real deal, because it seems like the kind of thing Master (an Incarnation of Love, afterall) would say, as opposed to the equivalent of "You in a heap o' trouble boy!" I'm with you, I simply cannot believe that church attendance per se, has anything to do with connection to the Guru. And it's really mean spirited, and the height of Pharasee-ism, to say so, in a threatening tone. Despite the obviously depressing nature of so many of the experiences described here, it's been very valuable to find this board, and realize again, (though I "sorta" knew it), that I'm hardly the only "SRF rascal" out here!
Lobo Registered User (6/5/03 8:04 pm) Reply	Re: hello everybody Hi Ranger20, Great post, and I'm glad you've taken the time to put your thoughts on paper. I've too have never heard any minister say that one should only attend SRF services. But it wouldn't surprise me if they are now doing so. SRF's attempts to tie initiates into feeling that the organizational bond is most important is most probably so that members will tithe and thus help the organization to succed financially. But as you've pointed out so well PY did not want his teachings to make his disciples solely church-bound; he emphasized the practice of the teachings in the privacy of one's abode over mere church attendance. And he did want us to have open, questing minds; to always test our beliefs, our experiences, our notions, against those of other philosophies and beliefs, and religions. He came to open our minds and hearts, not to close them down! After all, he designed the interior of his flagship temple, Hollywood Temple, with two pulpits on either side of the stage. This was done expressly because he wanted, in the future, for leaders and ministers of other faiths and religions to come and give talks as well as SRF ministers. Sadly such a far-reaching innovation--so broad and confident of God's goodness--has never been achieved or even attempted (to my knowledge). Broadness and inclusion was his style. Fear that people would leave his teachings if they visited other churches I can't see him ever worrying over. In fact, I don't think that he thought his teachings and path were for everyone. He wanted, as he often said we're told, "a crowd of souls." Not a herd of sheep.
babaGEE Registered User (6/6/03 11:29 am) Reply	Re: hello everybody With regard to Lobo's post above, about two years ago the Lake Shrine did have a panel discussion during a week night composed of about 5 members of various religious organizations in the community. I attended but I can't remember who they were or what exactly the topic was. Not exactly two talking pulpits but it was a start. The monastics in charge over there would like to reach out more to the community, but are limited since MC approves everything. Believe it or not, there are many people who live in Pacific Palisades who don't even know the lake or SRF exists. They just know there is a strange looking temple on the hill. I was told by a die-hard devotee just recently that "To make any spiritual advancement I mustn't attend other churches since SRF has it's own specific precepts" (?) i.e. the belief that SRF is it's own religion. It was then that I realized just how screwed up some people's thinking is in the SRF org. The human need to identify with something to make oneself feel "I'm okay" is very apparent at the Lake. My read on the lack of social behavior at the Temples is that most people don't really feel that they are okay and are afraid you will find out. Plain old fear manifests in many ways.
Borg108 Registered User (6/6/03 11:50 am) Reply	Re: hello everybody Even in India, where things are much more open and accepting than here, SRF/YSS is still very insular and isolated from other spiritual organizations and the Indian way of spirtual life. YSS monks there are allowed to visit other ashrams when they travel and to even have the occassional darshan of outside saints (conduct totally unacceptable in SRF), but there is little or no cooperation with or appreciation of other spiritual paths. In contrast to this, Swami Chidananda, the saintly head of Divine Life Society, regularly visits and is on the board of the Anadamayi Ma ashram and the Papa Ramdas Ananda ashram. When Swamiji came to the US years ago, he visited SRF headquarters but was not allowed contact with the SRF members or even many of the monastics. The same thing happened with Papa Ramdas and other Indian saints when they have visited SRF. What a shame to deprive us of the blessings of their company under a misguided sense of loyalty and the thought that SRF members cannot discriminate and would be "confused" by other teachers. SRF has missed many opportunities to cooperate with groups such as the Vedanta Society and others in this country and India as well.
ranger20 Registered User (6/6/03 1:08 pm) Reply	Re: hello everybody babaGEE writes: "My read on the lack of social behavior at the Temples is that most people don't really feel that they are okay and are afraid you will find out. Plain old fear manifests in many ways." Plain old fear is understandable. I'm sure SRF attracts a greater than average number of introverts, ex high school nerds, and others who haven't necessarily keenly honed their social skills. (that would include moi). What is regrettable is any sense that not interacting, per se, is somehow virtuous. I found the following last night, by "accident," while looking for something else. These few sentences are from Lesson 57: *Quote:* Every day you should associate, if only for a little while, with joy-instilled persons--those who meditate and feel the joy of God as a reality. Seek them out and feast with them on this most vitalizing food of joy. Feast on laughter in the company of these really joyful people. Steadfastly continue your laughter diet once you have begun it, and at the end of a month or two you will see the change--your mind will be filled with sunshine. I leave it to everyone to contemplate where they can, and where they cannot go, for a helping of laughter.
ATrueBeliever Registered User (6/7/03 5:07 pm) Reply	Re: hello everybody Brother Bhaktananda has many times quoted Yogananda as saying "Those who keep coming (to church) will make it". And, Bhaktananda strongly dissuades people from going to other churches and teachers as according to him it is disloyal.
Amidala of Coruscant Registered User (7/1/03 7:11 pm) Reply	Re: hello everybody Welcome, Ranger 20. Nice to have you on board. I am on a journey of learning to be a kriyaban but in a way that I'm having my own connection with the Lord and not trying to have someone else's connection. I am learning that I don't have to be a carbon copy of Daya Ma or Timmaris Hastings or Ravi Shankar and I'm okay even if I'm not them. I am learning that even though my music isn't encouraged and supported by MC, I can still do beatufiul things that make me feel closer to the Lord. Right now I am with an Ancient Egyptian path whose co-founder is a kriyaban in Canada. I live in Fullerton but I've stopped going to Fullerton Temple. I am realizing that even though I'm meant to receive the kriya technique, it doesn't mean that the outer part of the path is for me. I often think about Master's relationship with Gandhi and Lahiri's relationship with his chelas. They never forced people to give up there own beliefs due to initiation into kriya. You know, I often think, how interesting Master has Gandhi's ashes in Lake Shrine. Gandhi said his own mantras. He did not sing Cosmic Chants. He died singing to his beloved aspect of the Lord Rama. And Master loved Gandhi so much. I don't see all those hard core SRF ladies' ashes in Lake Shrine. What does that say? I am learning to love the Lord the way my heart feels to and not be beating myself to be like Daya Ma or Gyanamata or the SRF favored ones. So I am on a journey of positive growth and learning that the Lord loves me and that Master is here to guide me to the connection to the Lord that I feel I would treasure in my own heart instead of me trying to be someone I'm not. Once again, welcome aboard, Ranger 20 Master bless you One of Master's fellow Jedi padawans
redpurusha Registered User (9/12/03 10:16 am) Reply	Re: hello everybody Amidala of Coruscant, glad too hear you are finding your own way of following PY's teachings -your path to God. This is exactly what Master would want you to do. So have no fear, and move forward with steadfast determination. I found the teachings about 7 years ago and since then, my outlook and understanding has changed considerably, yet it's still the same innate desire to solve life's mysteries and experience ecstasy in God. I love the topic of religion and how it is classified and applied. I have come to understand that most religions of the world have a rightful place, because for each person there is a religious worship that fits their individual stage of develpment. And also, you can find God and mystical experiences in all the major religions of the world; they are all valid paths to God. Hinduism is the sole major world religion, however, that explicitly teaches this -that absorbs and incorporates all of the world's religions. The Catholic Church has a rightful place, and the same goes with SRF. There are many advanced disciples of Yogananda, who have gone through SRF, associated with it, and moved on to either do their own thing, or just apply the teachings without being involved with SRF. It all depends on individual needs and individual progress. Some people need the satsanga, as it helps them meditate, for others there better off meditating alone in their private rooms. There is a need for some organization. Organized religion is a step towards true enlightenment. The Gita (God Talks With Arjuna) goes in great detail of all the different types of devotees, and all the degrees of development. The mistake, when dealing with the topic of religion, or indvidual churches like SRF, is thinking in black and white terms -it is all bad or it is the only way- this results in much division and disputes. Instead, realize how everone has a different degree of development, and religious organizations like SRF or the catholic church, are neither the only true way or are perfect, but steps leading in the right direction. Because ultimately, you won't need to go to any mass or service to find God or joy, because you will have that all the time in samadhi, wherever you are. Obviously, easier said than done, but it's like having to walk a great distance, you begin to make steps, keep walking unceasingly, and before you know it -you are at your destination. "Digging, digging.... one day, behold! the divine goal!" -Lahiri Mahasaya