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Psych Analyst
Unregistered User
(9/16/01 12:21 pm)
Reply 		Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder
The American Psychiatric Association publishes a diagnostic and statistic manual of mental disorders. I am quoting from the 3rd edition commonly known as DSM-III-R.

Let's evaluate the organization at Mother Center as if it were a single entity. I've concluded that it qualifies as a canditate for this personality disorder. What do you think?

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Diagnostic criteria for 301.40 Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder
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A pervasive pattern of perfectionism and inflexibility, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by at least five of the following:

1) perfectionism that interferes with task completion, e.g. inability to complete a project because own overly strict standards are not met

2) preoccupation with details, rules, lists, order, organization, or schedules to the extent that the major point of the activity is lost.

3) unreasonable insistence that others submit to exactly his or her way of doing things, OR unreasonable reluctance to allow others to do things because of the conviction that they will not do them correctly.

4) excessive devotion to work and productivity to the exclusion of leisure activities and friendships (not accounted for by obvious economic necessity)

5) indecisivenes: decision making is either avoided, postponed, or protracted, e.g. the person cannot get assignments done on time because of ruminating about priorities (do not include if indecisiveness is due to excessive need for advice and reassurance from others)

6) overconscientiousness, scrupulousness, and inflexibility about matters of morality, ethics, or values (not accounted for by cultural or religious identification)

7) restricted expression of affection

8) lack of generosity in giving time, money, or gifts when no personal gain is likely to result

9) inability to discard worn-out or worthless objects even when they have no sentimental value

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Further descriptions of this disorder are quoted:

"Preoccupation with rules, efficiency, trivial details, procedures, or form interferes with the ability to take the broad view of things."

"Often there is a preoccupation with logic and intellect and intolerence of affective behavior in others."

"People with this disorder are always mindful of their relative status in the dominance-submssion relationships. Although they resist the authority of others, they stubbornly and unreasonably insist that people conform to their way of doing things."

"Decision making is avoided , postponed, or protracted perhaps because of an inordinate fear of making a mistake. For example, assignments cannot be completed on time because the person is ruminating about priorities."

"People with this disorder tend to be excessively conscientious, moralistic, scrupulous, and judgmental of self and others"

"People with this disorder are stingy with their emotions and material possessions. They tend not to express their feelings, and rarely give compliments or gifts. Everyday relationships have a conventional, formal, and serious quality. Others often perceive these people as stilted or "stiff."

"These people have an unusually strong need to be in control. When they are unable to control others, a situation, or their environment, they often ruminate about the situation and become angry, although the anger is usually not expressed directly..."

"Frequently, there is extreme sensitivity to social criticism, especially if it comes from someone with considerable status or authority."

Psych Analyst
Unregistered User
(9/16/01 12:24 pm)
Reply 		Happy face
The happy face in line #7 is not part of DSM--III-R. It got into my post accidentally but somehow fits the idea. Serendipity?

Psych Analyst
Unregistered User
(9/16/01 12:30 pm)
Reply 		Happy face
Oops. I meant line 8. Remember, there are 9 lines and Mother Center and participants only need to fit 5 out of 9 descriptions. Feedback apprectiated.

Psych Analyst
Unregistered User
(9/16/01 12:36 pm)
Reply 		Detail left out...
... By the way,
there's one more thing I forgot to mention

Just kidding.
(I'm normal. Just having fun) ;-)

DEEP
Unregistered User
(9/16/01 2:36 pm)
Reply 		Quick Response
I just wanted to be the first to respond, so this will be quick. It is shocking to see how they are described so closely by this disorder. Anyone working or living there will see this very quickly. Now, what are they going to do about it? Is it Master's will that the organization be so disfunctional?

By the way, check out the Emoticons link when adding these notes. It allows you to do these happy faces and stuff. The 8 ) you had is the short cut symbol for 8) . There are many more.
:) :rollin :rolleyes :lol :evil

Psych Analyst
Unregistered User
(9/20/01 12:49 am)
Reply 		Read Me
Has anybody tried applying this?

Crog
Unregistered User
(9/20/01 6:18 am)
Reply 		What is your question?
Applying? What the emoticons :) or applying the principles you mentioned above to SRF? There have been some posts about it already. Are you looking for specific examples of how SRF acts like this?

Psych Analyst
Unregistered User
(9/20/01 9:17 am)
Reply 		DSM-III_R
Yes. The latter.

I'm curious to see if SRF as an entity fits the DSM-III-R diagnosis for Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder. Intuitively, I know it does. But I'd like to see more concrete examples of the items listed. Maybe it might help some of us look towards interventions more suited for that disorder --- one's possibly more effective and targeted to the problem were facing.

Some people posting on this site have expressed concern over the range and type of comments being made about SRF / Mother Center / Board of Directors and attache's. The consistent comment I read is that the more irreverent criticisms or harsher observations might offend sensitve newcomers to this message board. So, I've offered an alternate framework for pinning down the issues and finding solutions. And that doesn't mean we have to stop doing what we're doing. Just one more tool. And a credible one.

Kevin
Registered User
(9/20/01 3:09 pm)
Reply 		Re: DSM-III_R
Some behavior in SRF?
I don't know how important this might be but...here're some examples:
1. I called a nun at M.W. regarding some work, she was reached in the Laundry Rm and commented (the tone conveyed it more than anything else) " I cannot do it!!!..we are in DEEP cleaning" for her it was so unthinkable to leave her chore (washing curtains)! for something more urgent and important! Over the years I noticed obsessive cleaniness is a regular practice, done as a spiritul discipline at first and as a compulsion ever after.
2. Abuse: I saw sister ... (the one from Europe) scolding a young nun, trashing her even after she repeatedly apologized untill she fell into tears. After that I paid attention and saw it on a regular basis (a few times at Xmas when monks moved things around in the Main building for example, or... scolding the receptionist (I could hear it through the handset!) while she tried to smile to me).
3. When monastic join the order they are told that SRF is their new and only real family,to curtail contact with outsiders, even dear friends and family. As it happened to my monk friend who left after many, many years of thankless service, he found himself isolated from everyone, emotionally distraut, without a penny and basically on the street totally betraied by his "only real family" and with no possibility to complain. I think they gave him between $500/1000. He got good references though!
4. AT the Printshop the SRF magazine was almost never printed on time for many different reasons. One was that they would not move the cropping of a photo of Yogananda or DAya Ma without Ananda Mata's approval, sometimes to move it just a 100th of a inch. If Ananda Mata was away (most of the time) they'd wait for weeks, Production was postponed, delayed, other project started, etc. In spite of the disruption to tens of workers etc. the monk responsible(who had been at that same job for 25yrs) wouldn't take THAT GREAT RESPONSIBILITY TO MOVE IT A 10TH OF AN HAIR because it was bad for HIS spiritual training and LOYALTY! It was more loyal to loose money, disrupting production, printing late, mailing late, maybe wasting ink or parper, films, etc.

5.... more to come...

Crog
Unregistered User
(9/20/01 4:12 pm)
Reply 		Mother of Compassion
Related to your point 3 on Monastic Treatment:
Two manager/members in the computer department, with 25 years of service each, were fired this year without warning, without reason given, and not a penny to tide them and their families over.
Of course there was a reason. But they would not reveal it because, why?

"Only Love can take my place."

Reasonable
Unregistered User
(9/20/01 9:08 pm)
Reply 		Examples of obsessive compulsive behavior?
Having lived in the ashram for a time, the mind boggles about listing behaviors which conform to this diagnostic criterion. The ashram is built on it... But what good will it do? Do we dump SSRI's in the water?? Honestly, I want to believe it will do good, but denial is a way of life there -- it is sanctified. Is it just for our personal therapy? God knows I would do anything to help a soul like that poor monk left with only 500 bucks. One young nun who left recently was told by Ma "not to come asking for money!" She was offered $400 and was given more only after explaining that she would be moving into a homeless shelter for women in Pasadena. The sickness and denial in the ashram culture prevents their finding a way to admit that good people do come and go and establishing a way to help them make the transition back to the "world." Supposedly Vishwananda is looking into this but the proof is in the pudding. And the pudding is flat.
Pardon me, I have digressed...My point remains that obsessive compulsive is pervasive -- engrained in the fiber of ashram life to the point that it is not questioned.

Psych Analyst
Unregistered User
(9/20/01 11:01 pm)
Reply 		Responding
Thanks for the responses Kevin and Crog.

Reasonable, what happens when you expose a vampire to the light of day? Get my drift?

I'm puzzled by your first comments. After all, what is this forum if it is not to share stories and compare notes and discuss what to do next?

I, for one, need to make a momentous decision in my life. I need to decide whether or not to put SRF in my past. I have given it half my life. Aside from Kriya, there is little about this work that appeals to my values. I am disenchanted, disgusted and disappointed in the direction SRF is going. I don't want to ride the rest of my life on the back of a spiritual donkey.

From what I'm gathering, there are growing numbers who feel as I do. One of two things is going to happen: 1) Either I am going to go help stir a movement among the disgruntled members of SRF which will shake it by the roots and consider that my grandest service to God in this life, or 2) I am going to find an identity among a more supportive family. But one thing I will not do is continue to numb my mind and soul by following the same old unworkable pattern.

Crog
Unregistered User
(9/21/01 6:20 am)
Reply 		Same Boat
I am in the same boat as Psych Analyst. If I drop SRF altogether I probably lose most or all the friends I have had for half my life. I at least lose most opportunities to see them. Not sure what to do, but I feel better discussing it.

Reasonable
Unregistered User
(9/21/01 8:31 am)
Reply 		Thanks, Croq and Psych A
Croq and Psych Analyst, I am glad to know more about what your situations are. Helps me to understand. And I really sympathize with you. Psych A, perhaps you found my comments puzzling because I am writing from a different perspective. See,I have already stepped away from SRF. My path is now my inner life with God and Guru. And I am not interested in finding another church or religion -- no more spiritual families. But I can assure you there are many loving, beautiful, sane souls out here and this has become more and more apparent since I took my SRF glasses off. There's lots of support. Lots of ways to heal and grow. This board is part of that healing for me. So thanks for listening.

Psych Analyst
Unregistered User
(9/21/01 10:29 am)
Reply 		reply
There are many loving beautiful, sane souls out here. Actually my perspective is closer to yours. I walked away from SRF when I found that the people I most enjoyed being with, who inspired me and were closest to me were not affiliated with SRF in any way.

I was one of those in SRF who maintained a healthy connection with people outside of the temples even while I was attending. When I stopped attending SRF activities a few years ago, I noticed none of my so-called long term "friends" in SRF bothered to check up on me. That confirmed my continual feeling that I could not find many TRUE friends in SRF. I mentioned looking for another family, but I didn't mean another spiritual family. I just meant people who are close to me because of shared values. I didn't have to look for them after leaving SRF. They were already there. But I'm expanding that base. Most of my friends are creative, intelligent, and open-minded.

Sometimes I wonder why I go to this message board. I'd like to erase my history and start all over again. However, I recognize its wise to first allow myself to appreciate whatever good I got from my association with SRF. I also need to tie up loose ends, and comparing stories makes me see the big picture of what I was exposed to for over half my life.

Kevin
Registered User
(9/21/01 3:16 pm)
Reply 		Re: reply
HI Psych.A.:
I was wondering about your passionate resentment, your indignation and your frustration for SRF and... your statement about leaving SRF behind you... then at the end you finally explained it... and I feel very similarly to you... actually I don't really know what I will do with SRF...
like you I realized it gave me a lot:Thank you Master!!!
But comparing the pros and cons... the more I try to distance myself from it the more frustrated and at times angry I feel!
It's because I finally realized what it did to me and I can't believe I actually was brainwashed, a bliss-bunny, a dreamer and for many years! How could I leave my innermost self behind so easily? How could I be so dreamy? How could I believe so utterly, totally?
I vow to never allow, in this life or future lives, to ever give my own sense of worth away! If there is an higher state it will have to be based on an integration of my lower self into a sublimated higher self...not a negation of the lower for the higher (aren't they the same thing?) but an absorbtion of my self into its greater manfestation.
It's funny, SelfRealiz. is the realization of the self into its grown up, mature version of Self. some Beating, negating it, parenting it is fine to get some control but to negate it totally is to play into the hands of Maya.
If SRFers think they can find God by letting real friends go because of limited, dogmatic thinking they should not be surprised if God will elude them in this life. How can one love God if cannot manifet some real love toward a friend?



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