Why do people consider Yogananda their guru?

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caliyogi Registered User (12/7/02 9:56 pm) Reply	Why do people consider Yogananda their guru? I am curious as to why people call yogananda their guru. Yoga has been handed down orally from guru to disciple for millenia. Discipleship is a personal relationship between disciple and guru. These mass initations from organizations [SRF and Ananda] don't seem very legitamite. Yogananda himself stressed [in Autobiography] the importance of a direct relationship with Jesus and his direct disciples, and how Jesus took on the karmas of his direct disciples. In Yogananda's original teachings of Christianity (which, not surprisingly, SRF never released but you can read in Second Coming of Christ available from amrita.com) he discussed the importance of Jesus finding John, his guru in a previous life [Elias and Elijah], and having a personal baptism and initiation. Why should kriya and his ministry be any different? If SRF released Yogandanda's un-edited interpretations of Christianity it would conflict with their whole mission - this is one of the reasons why we will never get them [unless heavily edited and changed]. Yogananda also talked about how when your yearning for God was great enough [through countless incarnations], that He will send you a living guru to guide you to Him. This was the case when he was alive but not anymore. Also, interesting enough, in 1935 on his trip to India, Yogananda visited the sage Ramana Maharshi, who was in constant communion with Brahman, and asked him how will people be uplifted spiritually? Maharshi replied "it depends on the temperament of the individual. There can be no instructions en masse". Seems to contradict with Yogananda's ministry. It seems that like Jesus, Yogananda took on the karma and mostly guided his direct disciples to liberation. This whole organization and mass initiation is just that - instructions for the masses. A intimate relationship with guru is probably necessary for liberation - probably none of the mass initiated will reach liberation in this lifetime - this is all probably just a preparatory step. The ones that are close will have a guru in the body to guide them. Westerners have a long way to go, no need for many true gurus right now... I talked with another kriya master and asked him about yogananda and those who call him their guru and about the experiences they have with him still to this day, he says it their idea of him that keeps him alive. Makes sense, yogananda talked alot about the thoughtrons and about making your reality... how babaji was able to manifest a mansion for lahiri... kriyabans are able manifest yogananda's presence... Maybe not such a nice topic to discuss, but i would like to hear others views on this matter. Edited by: caliyogi at: 12/8/02 7:53:29 am
Lobo Registered User (12/7/02 11:59 pm) Reply	Re: Why do people consider Yogananda their guru? I think that traditionally Yogananda's "heir(ess)" as his chief disciple, acknowledged as so by Yogananda directly while still alive, would step into the the guru role. That at least is how I understand the way these things play out in the yogic world of India. For instance the Vedanta Society, Ramakrishna and Vivekananda's organization, revere both of these towering spiritual giants but members can have their own guru-swami from the organization, usually swami's from India sent to run the various branches in America. An example would be the famous writer Christopher Isherwood becoming Swami Prabhavananda's disciple through the Hollywood Vedanta Society. They hold Ramakrishana, his wife Holy Mother Sarada Devi, and Swami Vivekananda in special status, different from their disciples who are the guru's of today's members. Under that set-up Daya, Durga, and others would be recognized as having disciples, all the while both they and their disciples recognizing Yogananda and the lineage as their real guru's, sat-guru status. The "lesser" gurus are called I believe upa-gurus, different from sat or sad guru who is a divine incarnation at differing levels, purna or full, or jivan mukta etc. etc. These upa gurus would lead their disciples, westerners who do not have the thousands year long tradition, in their practice of the sadhana the sat-guru directed to be practiced. The disciples could then obtain directly from their upa guru instruction, advise, counsel, wisdom of their many years of sadhana and close association with the sat-guru whilst practicing the yoga sadhana of the revered sat-guru. Presumably at some point of spiritual evolution the disciple would be so stabilized in their sadhana that they would then be able to directly tune into the vibrational rate of the sat-guru to receive healing and instruction on/in the higher planes of spirituality.
caliyogi Registered User (12/8/02 7:55 am) Reply	Re: Why do people consider Yogananda their guru? yeah but none of these people [daya mata, durga, monastics who perform the kriya initiations] are considered gurus, when you are initiated you pledge allegiance to Yogananda and the lineage before him. Thus we have thousands of people referring to yogananda as "Master".
redpurusha Registered User (12/9/02 9:47 am) Reply	Re: Why do people consider Yogananda their guru? Dear caliyogi, Indeed a direct relationship with the Master along with him taking up some of the karma, is necessary for liberation. (At least this is what I got from Yogananda's teachings). 50% God's grace, 25% gurus blessing (guidance and taking up of karma) and 25% disciples part (100% effort). But with so few true realized sons and daugthers of God ("gurus") to go around for the thousands and millions who seek such a guide, we read in the Autiobiography "how will the average man be able to seek God , if not by printed yoga instructions?." Yogananda never, to my memory, says that such a way through the printed lessons, is the ideal method of teaching the yoga science, but is the ideal method for this dwapara age. Yoganada plays a key role in introducing the yoga to the masses, explaining the scriptures, and inspiring them seek God above all, and also serves as a guru for those wishing to accept him as such. I have no doubts to the claim that he was/is a true Master (that is one in communion with God that can help bring back others to God's kingdom). Getting to your central question, a guru "dispels darkness" in this way Yogananda is a guru to millions (not everyone would agree with this claim), but I would bet he has shed light on many issues concerning life and death to a great number of people. But in the strict sense, is he a legitimate guru? in the sense that he has a personal relationship with you, guides and directs, and takes up some of the karma of the disciple? I would say yes to those who feel his real presence, not just through the printed word or audio/video, but by actual contact on the astral or causal planes, or even superconscious dreams, to them he is a legitimate guru. But I do see the dangers and limitations of having Yogananda as one's guru, for its likely that a devotee can be imagining things or answers his own questions thinking its Yogananda speaking to him, "self-delusions" (as srflongago argues). I think most people, like me, love his personality and recognize him as a true Master, and are willing to accept him without a body, than going out into the jungles of the world, filled with frauds and self-delusioned guides themselves. I don't see many good choices. I think also, that it varies by individual and that for some he serves as a stepping stone, or an introduction, to finding another guru in the body in this life. For example, George Burke got initiation through SRF after Yogananda left his body, he found true guidance and spiritual benefit from PY, yet he sought out other "gurus" most notably Anada Ma (you know the one mentioned in the AY), and finally found his true calling in nother SRF guru, the Master from Nazareth, Jesus. Which ever way you slice it, in my opinion, if you accept PY as your guru you are going in the right direction towards God's kingdom.
Lobo Registered User (12/9/02 5:56 pm) Reply	Re: Why do people consider Yogananda their guru? Caliyoga, I have puzzled over this too. Why do we call Yogananda guru, when classically the guru has to have some initial contact with the disciple? We have never met him to be accepted as his disciple. And as Red Purusha points out we assume that he is "taking 25%" of our karma. But we don't know that for sure. How can he accept us when he never even personally accepted us and our various loads of negative/positive karma. What if we simply aren't ready, spiritually advanced enough, to enter into the guru/disciple relationship? We certainly can through the simple act of subscribing to the SRF Lessons, filling out the kriya pledge card, and viola!, we are his disciples. For which, again classically, he is spiritually bound to shepard unto Liberation, thereby creating a link that he might not have consciously made while alive and in person to person setting. The AY tells us that he personally inititated over 100,000 individuals into kriya yoga sadhana. Does this mean that he accepted each and every one of these persons as his own disciple? What about those who came because they heard he had fantastic powers which he would freely demonstrate for the price of admission? Yet when we step back and look at those who he acknowledged as his disciples their number (to my knowledge) couldn't be more than 100. I understand that they received a discipleship initiation from him, as probably best described by Kriyananda in his book, The Path. I've heard Anandamoy tell the same story as to how PY accepted disciples through this initiation process. After his mahasamadhi however there was a problem for SRF. How do we make people bound to the organization? We want loyal members who will both practice the sadhana as directed, plus tithe as they are lead too. If they receive the top kriya inititation will they simply wander off to other paths looking for something better? How do we get them to commit, for without that commitment of those individuals we will find the work evaporating. So, it is my conclusion, they came up with making the kriya initiation into discipleship initiation. Then people become members, disciples of the sat-guru. But again, this only occurred after PY's demise. Would he do the same, or did he tell those left to run the organization to do this? That is something I can't answer, and frequently personally question. The way I've personally resolved this dilemma is: kriya yoga is a sadhana practice that I feel is helping me spiritually. I feel reverence for PY, and refer to him as my guru. But that could be the upa-guru that I tried to describe above. In other words he has taught me, through his organization and their Lessons, how to meditate, do pranayama etc. etc. And I believe that to be a very powerful process which will take me as far toward Liberation as my own abilities and desire will allow for. If, however at some point I find that some spiritual master is my real guru, then I suppose I'll thank PY for his gracious help and accept my true preceptor!
username Registered User (12/9/02 8:29 pm) Reply	Re: Why do people consider Yogananda their guru? Vedanta in India - only the president and vice president can initiate and it is usually done in a group. In the US, and countries outside of India, the swami in charge of the center/region is authorized to initiate. I heard it said someplace -( was it in SRF? ) or perhaps it is in the indian scriptures that if someone reaches highest enlightenment, then 7 or 9 generations of the family (forward and backwards) will also reach enlightenment. So, does anyone have any idea of the spiritual stature of any of yogananda's relatives? Also, if lahiri was enlightened, then future generations of his family should be enlightened - Shibendu is obviously NOT enlightened So this means either that lahiri was not enlightened or the 7 generation thing is not true
Lobo Registered User (12/9/02 9:49 pm) Reply	Re: Why do people consider Yogananda their guru? Also Kriyananda in his book, The Path, remarking on Sri Gyanamata's death, and PY saying that she'd attained nirbikalpa samadhi, remembered that PY had said that for one to be fully liberated he/she needed to also liberate 7 disciples. He said that PY read his thought and in reply told him that "she had disciples." I think the 7 generations comes from SRF, at least that's where I heard it.
chela2020 Registered User (12/12/02 2:53 am) Reply	Re: Why do people consider Yogananda their guru? Dear Caliyogi, I am as confused as you are on this one. In the Journey to Self-realization book Yogananda said, "A guru has to be in the flesh, that is one who lived on earth." I would love to hear the lecture where that comment came from, because this statement is very contradictory. If you are in the flesh, you still live on earth. Did he really say that, or did MC change "lives" to "lived"? The rest of his comments sound like a guru is on earth and dealing with you one on one. But then you read of those in the Catholic Church who have never met Christ, and they have visions of him and also become enlightened. And yet in India, it seems like a devotee almost always choices a guru who is in the flesh, and yet I believe that there are those who worship and accept even Krishna as their guru, etc. But my feeling is, it is a fact that you can become enlightened by using Yogananda's techniques, and I do believe that he is there to guide each of us, and in the long run maybe it doesn't matter because it is God who is behind each guru, whether he is in the body or not.
parabastha Registered User (12/12/02 5:32 am) Reply	Re: Why do people consider Yogananda their guru? Here is the quote: "The scriptures say you must have a visible master--that is, one who [b]lived[/b] on earth." -- Journey to Self-Realization, page 236. We must know if PY said originally "lived" or "lives".
KS Registered User (12/12/02 7:22 am) Reply	Re: Why do people consider Yogananda their guru? I don't limit God or my Guru to a silly set of rules. We are talking the superbowl of all games here. To think we can even understand the rules at our level of development is probably a bit silly. Learn to behave. Learn to care about others. Think of others before yourself. That is probably progress enough. P.S. I consider Yogananda my Guru.
chrisparis Registered User (12/12/02 7:59 am) Reply	Re: Why do people consider Yogananda their guru? This is another issue I have spent alot of time thinking over. Here is my humble and uninformed opinion: God is the center of each and every one of us. He WANTS us to know him (using Him and He as a literary convenience). He will flow in through ANY chink in the armor we have on. We can approach God by turning in to our limitless, immortal center. A Guru or Master is useful to teach a person how to do this, and to help a person to develop the habits that make constant awareness of our connection constant, but a Guru isn't a person who can open and close the door on a person's connection with God. It's that second part, closing the door, that is critica, for me. The one part of the whole Guru concept that I absolutely reject is the notion that a person's guru can bar their contact with God, or that the lack of a guru can bar their contact with God. If God can raise children of Abraham up out of stones, He can illumine a person who has no contact with a guru. THis is my opinion only, of course. Please feel free to take it with as much salt as you feel necessary.
chela2020 Registered User (12/12/02 5:37 pm) Reply	Re: Why do people consider Yogananda their guru? Chrisparis, I agree with you on a person being able to become illumined without a guru. The book "Cosmic Consciousness" is full of examples. Also Sri Ramakrishna, while no longer in the body, is considered the guru in Vedanta, as are the ones who initiate. So if Sri Ramakrishna can be a guru, so can Yogananda. I also think that many in SRF, Ananda, as well as the other off-shoots of SRF, would testify to Yogananda's ability to help them evolve if they were willing to tell of their experiences, which of course we are all taught not to do for good reason. Edited by: chela2020 at: 1/28/03 4:05:05 am
mangomoy Registered User (12/13/02 11:45 pm) Reply	7 or 9 family generations also reach enlightenment *Quote:* from USERNAME, posted 9 Dec: "I heard it said someplace -( was it in SRF? ) or perhaps it is in the indian scriptures that if someone reaches highest enlightenment, then 7 or 9 generations of the family (forward and backwards) will also reach enlightenment." Master wrote something about this question USERNAME has raised. See A Paramhansa Yogananda Trilogy of Divine Love, by Ma Durga, p152, PY's letter to James Lynn dated January 25, 1945, in which PY says: "Not only are you redeemed. Your father and mother will find redemption through your good karma, inheriting your spiritual, imperishable riches . . ." When PY wrote that, James Lynn's mother, Salethia Lynn, had already died on 16 Sep 1943. James Lynn's father, Jessw W. Lynn, was still living, and died about 6 months later, on 1 Aug 1945. These dates are according to p155-157 of the same Divine Trilogy book.
redpurusha Registered User (12/16/02 7:31 am) Reply	Re: 7 or 9 family generations also reach enlightenment This quote by Yogananda refers to the "father and mother" only, not some 7 or 9 generations, as this latter claim is unreasonable and quite ridiculous. Perhaps they are blessed to some degree? Edited by: redpurusha at: 12/16/02 8:01:29 am
wholetruth Registered User (12/16/02 9:12 am) Reply	Re: 7 or 9 family generations also reach enlightenment I agree with you, redpurusha, but we will all reach enlightenment in time, won't we? I guess it depends on us how quickly. Christmas Blessings to all!
chela2020 Registered User (12/18/02 5:24 am) Reply	Re: Why do people consider Yogananda their guru? Chrisparis, I cannot imagine a guru barring one's contact with God. Where did you hear this? For one thing, the guru has taken you on as a devotee, and that relationship can never be severed, not in this life or in the one to come. And it is his duty, done out of love, to not judge you, but also to help you reach God, and he or she has made this promise to not ever reject you, but to stay with you until you are liberated. And having or not having a guru doesn't prevent you from reaching God. He is only there to make it easier for you to reach God. Many have reached God without the help of a living guru. At least this is my own understanding from what I have read.
username Registered User (12/18/02 7:31 am) Reply	Re: guru I asked a guru once how you would find him in the next life if you didn't reach enlightenment. And the answer was that you wouldn't necessary meet him again but someone who was the next guru of the lineage. But with Yogananda there is noone who was given the lineage
chela2020 Registered User (12/18/02 11:17 am) Reply	Re: guru Username, I was told the same thing by a guru.
chela be4 Registered User (12/20/02 7:39 am) Reply	Re: Why do people consider Yogananda their guru? I remember a story by a devotee about a woman who was a disciple of Yogananda whose young son could not stand to be around Yogananda. Eventually the woman asked him why her son disliked him so. His answer: he was a disciple that had rejected him in a previous life and that he was keeping him close until he came back to him. I have always gathered strength from this story as I am not a saint and who knows where this life will lead me. Also the christian tradition which does not require Christ to be in the flesh for followers to find "realization". No, I don't require Yogananda to be in the flesh to be my guru and who knows what forms he will take in future lives that I won't even recognize. I don't believe it to be a requirement from God for the guru to be incarnate, after all, God can do anything, right? Merry ChristMass everyone -chelabe4
username Registered User (12/21/02 6:47 am) Reply	Re: Why do people consider Yogananda their guru? maybe the child was picking up something correctly? or is this used by SRF as a brainwashing story so to convince all to not leave the path "or reject Yogananda"
X Insider Registered User (12/21/02 2:33 pm) Reply	Re: Why do people consider Yogananda their guru? That is a corker, as they say. The mother in question, having asked Yogananda why her son disliked him rather than asking her son why he felt as he did, is a perfect SRF devotee. When in doubt about your own feelings (or your child's), just call Mother Center. They will be happy to interpret reality for you! Did you catch this, Gitano?

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