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chuckle
Unregistered User
(3/5/02 10:43 pm)
Reply 		Sex abuse in the Catholic Church--a study of denial
This week’s cover story in Newsweek is about sexual abuse by Catholic priests, which is turning into a major crisis for the Catholic Church. Although the issue is different from those we are discussing in SRF, the principles are similar. I’m not bringing up anything new, but the article illustrates what can happen to spiritual organizations that refuse to face reality. A few passages caught my attention.

“But scandals that involve an alleged cover-up have a way of mushrooming out of control, and the Geoghan [priestly sex abuse] case is already evoking comparisons not just to Watergate but a more contemporary debacle. “The church reacted as institutions often do--as Enron did--and that is to deny, to delay, to dissemble, to fool themselves into thinking that all was well,” says a former priest.”

A canon lawyer for the church says: “We advised, urged, banged our heads against the wall. We advised that the public be dealt with honestly and openly. The bishops’ conference rejected the whole report and everything that was in it.”

“The see-no-evil culture of the church is so entrenched, and the unwillingness of some priests to look honestly at themselves and their collegues is so pervasive, that even the most compassionate people can fail to protect those they’ve vowed to serve.”

We in SRF would be well advised, I think, to consider these thoughts, and to forsake the
illusion that SRF is at all times divinely guided, infallible, and incapable of error.

Denial. Fear. Self-examination. Accountability. Communication. Dialogue. Trust. Some
interesting principles to be considered.

Kevin
Registered User
(3/6/02 11:55 am)
Reply 		cover up attitude is in SRF as well
time ago one of the SRF Brothers had a relationship with a devotee, if I remember well the name was Patricia. Before she was silenced by a legal agreement with SRF (who knows how much money SRF had to pay her?) she confided with some friends and acquaintances:
these are the facts as they were told to me at the time:
In her past she had had severe problems (let's leave it at that). In SRF she found new hope and courage to face them. She got close to a brother of the order and he started an affair with her, one evening while he was visiting his hands went astray! When time later she went for help to another well known SRF minister he told her to hush up. Then she went to M.Washvatican and was ignored as well as painted like the evil doer in the matter (she being an adult might have had her share of responsibility but that is another story) and treated by monastic and members alike with disdain: she caused a great soul to fall, etc.. When she pushed the matter she got eventually to meet Daya Mata but nothing really happened untill she got a lawyer! Results: The brother was asked to leave the order (if he was asked before or after the lawyer got involved I don't know, I like to think SRF did it before) and she eventually was paid off.
Considering that SRF was her own spiritual and emotional haven at the time if she had found understanding, comfort and help do you think she would have gone to a lawyer? probably NOT !!!
The real problem with Spiritual institutions is that they think they know it all, the God is the boss and so they can get away with anything. That the AIM justifies the MEANS. It is a dangerous attitude and a very arrogant one. It is the kernel of most religous evils and one of the measuring gadgest that should warn people at large that that institution has become orthodox. The organization which was born to support an idea becomes more important than the idea itself.




Lobo
Registered User
(3/6/02 9:09 pm)
Reply 		Re: cover up attitude is in SRF as well
Kevin,

The sordid details of this unfortunate episode were revealed to all in the orginial New Times Los Angeles article. I don't have the link, but if you do a search you can find it.

It was written to infer, much as you've said, she was mistreated by the powers that be on Mt. Washington, even DM, who, the article inferred, blamed the poor woman.

And, just as you've written, she didn't get any help with this problem until she hired a lawyer. Then she got $300,000 with the concomitant agreement to 'not discuss the settlement (and usually the charges that lead to the settlement).

Arjunananda was ousted from the ashram. Again, only after she hired a lawyer. The article stated that this woman then went home to New Zealand. Interestingly, the woman who sued K and Ananda, also hailed from that island nation.

Maybe the spiritual forces are drawing women from the South Pacific to their unhappy fate of meeting randy kriya yoga swami's who claim to be celibate monk's of their guru.

I am all for bringing these things out into the light. I used to marvel that with all these types of disgusting actions of the priests of the Catholic church, SRF by contrast, was a healthy environment for the monastics who had learned how to use the yogic wisdom to transmit those desires into spirituality. Pitying the poor priests who had to just use repression I could understand their faults (not against children!) in these matters.

But since I got a computer a couple of years ago and went online I've receive a real education about the transmutation of sexual desire of some of our leading lights of the kriya tradition. And it as been asked, if kriya doesn't confer upon one the power to have self-control, particularly if one has been practicing it for 50 years (in one case), just what does it do in terms of the claims made by it's proponents?

Kevin
Registered User
(3/6/02 10:49 pm)
Reply 		SRF not that different!
It seems there has been some alleged misbehavior by Saty Sai Baba as well. I think that a minimum of sex should be practiced as a guarrantee for a healthy spiritual life! Considering the power of human sexuality it seems to be the safest way.
Maybe....Only who can show control of energy should be allowed to claim to be a celibate and a monk. (let's put the monk naked in front at a porno video and see how it goes! sorry, I couldn't help it).

At the end is not just human sexual frailty but it is the cover up! The fall is very human but the cover up is wilful manipulation, it's activily working for Maya.

Musicman
Unregistered User
(3/8/02 12:16 pm)
Reply 		Failed Ideology
"And it has been asked, if kriya doesn't confer upon one the power to have self-control, particularly if one has been practicing it for 50 years (in one case), just what does it do in terms of the claims made by it's proponents?"

This seems to me to be the nub of the whole issue. Before we decide to continue devoting megahours to the practice of kriya and associated techniques, in the hope of achieving what we have been told are exalted states of illumination, we may want to look at the reality of the SRF hierarchy. There are some saintly folks up there, no doubt, but if this "science" really "works like mathematics," how does one account for so many failed experiments? Perhaps the fundamental premise is faulty.

Of course, SRF has only been at this game for less than a century. Perhaps after a few hundred years, it will get its act together. The example of the Catholic Church isn't encouraging in this regard, but even if Eastern philosophy presented some alternative hope for real change, here is how Joel Kramer and Diana Alstad, in their wonderful book The Guru Papers: Masks of Authoritarian Power, put this in perspective:

"One of the longest experiments in history, the approximately 3000-year-old Eastern ideology of Oneness, was first developed in the Upanishads. It does have one component whose results can be examined in this world--the efficacy of its moral system to do what it set out to do: eliminate or even moderate divisiveness and self-centeredness. The failure of its renunciate morality to diminish self-centeredness is a powerful statement that something is amiss. The usual reasons given for this are either that humanity has not tried hard enough or isn't good enough. [In fact], this morality has failed not because there is something wrong with people, but because the framework constructs ideals that are impossible to achieve, thus setting people up for failure and self-mistrust. That it has been around so long and has not even tempered human divisiveness should not be taken lightly. The incongruity that the most highly structured and internally divided culture (India) originated and nurtured the Oneness framework is no accident. Caste, with its privileges through the hierarchy it sets up, has proven to be one of the most powerful and lasting ways of dividing people." (pp. 318-19)

Have you ever considered how much the structure of the ashram reflects the Hindu caste system (the four basic castes being postulant, novice, brahmachari, and sannyasi)? And what are we nonmonastics? Untouchables. The upper castes protect their own interests, and when the interests of the upper castes conflict with those of the lower, or especially of the untouchables, the elites will do whatever is necessary to protect themselves. So, that particular philandering minister was only bounced after it became a legal impossibility to cover up his dalliance and SRF's hypocrisy. Of course, "good" devotees must view the woman as nothing but a Jezebel who was responsible for "bringing down" a prospective saint. Eve strikes again!

The cover-up reflex in SRF became clear to me years ago at a
meeting at Hollywood Temple (Young Adults, I think). Cars were being broken into in the lot across the street, and one member suggested that the Hollywood congregation be warned about the hazards of parking there. Hal Brown immediately put the kibosh on this idea, because it would spread "negativity." I spoke up and said that as negative as it might seem to warn people, it would be much more negative to say nothing and allow their cars to get broken into! Needless to say, that argument fell on deaf ears (holy people are so sure of themselves). It defies all reason. But my experience of religion in general is that its primary mission is to undermine your reason, in order to persuade you that the fabulous tale you're about to hear could actually be true. And don't forget to be generous with your "love offering."

redpurusha
Registered User
(3/8/02 9:44 pm)
Reply 		Re: Failed Ideology
"[In fact], this morality has failed not because there is something wrong with people, but because the framework constructs ideals that are impossible to achieve, thus setting people up for failure and self-mistrust."

How do you then explain Jesus Christ, P. Yogananda, and other revered yoga masters? fables? not real people? not real lives (cosmic dreams)?

Maybe the influence of time has kept most wanna-be-yoga-masters from making it. If the theory holds true, than there should hardly be any self-realized souls right here right now. Looks like the case.

Been there
Unregistered User
(3/8/02 10:09 pm)
Reply 		To Musicman
Always enjoy your fearless posts. Especially loved that moment in the Hollywood temple, in which the only acceptable action required one to abandon all reason and follow the leader. YIKES! I can hear the echo of a goose step.

AumBoy
Registered User
(3/8/02 10:42 pm)
Reply
ezSupporter
 To Musicman
Quote:
...because it would spread "negativity." I spoke up and said that as negative as it might seem to warn people, it would be much more negative to say nothing and allow their cars to get broken into!


This is something that I noticed in the ashram, too. The complete inability to use common sense to distinguish the difference between something "negative" (or perceived to be negative) and, say, preventive maintenance or circumventing a problem. Or in other words, an inability differentiate between an actual problem and a person who notices the problem. The tendency has been that the person who notices a problem becomes the problem. Good way to stop communication. This is why I found NASA parallels some of SRFs issues (which I will develop further over time).

The following link pertains to the topic of this thread:
Church ready to pay $57m to settle child-sex cases

Edited by: AumBoy at: 3/8/02 11:07:38 pm
Lobo
Registered User
(3/9/02 12:22 am)
Reply 		Re: Failed Ideology
Hello Musicman,

Loved the post, but just have a few comments. Quoting the "Guru Papers" is like comparing the Bible to that of the Church of Satan's "Holy Writ". These two individuals, profiled long ago in a feature article in the Yoga Journal, are on a mission. They want to stop people from following guru's. There that's simple isn't it?

No, not really. Like any biased writer(s) they first define the guru/disciple relationship falsely (in this excerpt) by saying that it originated in "Eastern" ideology of "Oneness, first espoused in the Upanishads." Well I don't really know much about Hindu theology but the little bit I do know has assured me that the Vedas are the original source of Hinduism. And they surely are older than 3,000 years. Having been transmitted orally from guru to chela for thousands of years before they were even committed to writing. The Upanishads, I believe, came much later than these seminal teachings, and served to elaborate on them.

Secondly, in the Gita, part of the Upanishad's, Krishna wipes the stars out of the eyes of spiritual dreamer's when he describes just what is required for an aspirant to achieve "Oneness." How does it go? 'Out of the many, few are chosen. Out of the chosen, few are enlightened." Not in those exact words (too tired to look it up, but I'm sure you've heard it, in SRF Temple's, just like me).

The point being, that it requires the total annihlation of all of one's ego clinging, fears, desires, aversions, etc. In other words, no looking for miracles, no longing for samadhi, no clinging to 'special experiences in meditation,' in short, accepting things as they are and still have an open heart and a compassionate mind. And how many people, monks, nuns, layity, have you met that you think achieved that? Right, the silence is deafening!

But there is hope. As someone posted in this thread, what about all the Real Deal's? Those who have made the journey, from which, you do not return (as yourself, that is); namely, Jesus, Krishna, Yogananda etc. That just covers the one's that I find attractive, there are many, many others that span the globe down through time.

So we do have examples. And it those example's that just won't let me alone. When I want to pack it in, when I want to turn back, when I find the path much steeper than I ever imagined, when all those lovely, seductive sirens are calling me not to waste my life sitting on a cushion; it is just those times that those Example's come to mind. And I'm aware (most times against my will) that if those shining One's can do it, then it must follow, somewhere within my own self, I too have the ability to do it.

And then the question becomes. How? That's a matter of faith, a matter of spiritual attraction toward a particular path or teacher. Me? I've found Yogananda. And he teaches Kriya as his particular sadhana. So I practice kriya yoga. But I know that I don't do it correctly. Heck, I don't even do the Hong-Sau, make that, even do the EE's correctly either. But I just keep on. Faith in the man, faith in his teachings, faith in his goodness; that's what I'm banking on.

And even though I don't do the techniques correctly I swear, I can feel myself getting closer to That Which We All Seek. How? Simple. The more I practice, the more I feel the resistance my mind is putting up. And that is one indicator that won't lie.

Lastly, the first edition of the Master Says (the one K had a hand in compiling, published of course by SRF) contained the simple story of the elderly ladies that complained to Yogananda because someone had stolen something from their car while they were at the Hollywood Church. His response? "Did you lock your car?" "NO," came the reply. "Well what do you expect, God gave your intelligence, you must exercise it," (last part paraphased). So when those at the same temple refused to inform people that their car's had a chance of being broken into while they were at the temple would, I surmise, be something that Yogananda wouldn't advise. I suspect he would've had it announced before services, as he, we are often told, valued common sense highly.

Sorry for the length. Not totally on topic. But written from the perspective of one guy's experience.

Best to you,

Pig Ma
Registered User
(3/9/02 6:50 am)
Reply 		Beautiful post Lobo!
Lobo,

I am going through such a transition in my life, and right now it feels like a hurricane inside. Reading your post is just what I needed to get up and get going to my morning meditation. Thanks fellow devotee for the inspiration and encouragement to keep on keeping on.

AumBoy
Registered User
(3/9/02 1:42 pm)
Reply
ezSupporter
 Re: Failed Ideology
Quote:
The point being, that it requires the total annihlation of all of one's ego clinging, fears, desires, aversions, etc. In other words, no looking for miracles, no longing for samadhi, no clinging to 'special experiences in meditation,' in short, accepting things as they are and still have an open heart and a compassionate mind. And how many people, monks, nuns, layity, have you met that you think achieved that? Right, the silence is deafening!


On one of the SRF tapes, Bro. Anandamoy states that the Soul wants only one thing, God-realization; every other desire is of the ego. (I'm going from memory, so this might be paraphrasing his statement.) This cannot be literally interpreted. One has to realize it. And realization has different degrees: mental, physical, emotional, psychological, spiritual, etc. And it's based on our current understanding, our depth of understanding, the ability and flexibility we innately have to accept the Truth, and the belief systems we have in place which filters all information we take in. Your cup will probably not runneth over but might become full. Most of us are not prepared to be rudely awakened to the absolute Truth and experience the vision Krishna bestowed on Arjuna. Why? It would be disruptive to our health. Master says to use the good thorn to pull out the bad thorn and throw both thorns away. Again, why? Because even good desires ("of the Lord") can serve to impell one to reincarnate whether it is prayer for world peace, health, perfect love, etc.

Every thought of God, draws Her to you. Whether you actively love Her or actively hate Her or actively question what the heck is going on. The end result is the same. In the ashram I was told a story of a man who was given a choice between living 7 evil incarnations opposing God before he was liberated or 100 good incarnations supporting God before he was liberated. He chose the evil lives because it was shorter path. And he was really, really bad. (Does anyone remember where this story comes from?)

Lobo
Registered User
(3/9/02 1:52 pm)
Reply 		Re: Failed Ideology
Pig Ma,

Thanks. It is inspiring to me to know that fellow devotee's are going through the same hard changes as I am. Just slogging through the mud of the personal shadow, looking here and there for a glint of gold buried in that muck.

chuckle
Unregistered User
(3/9/02 3:35 pm)
Reply 		To Musicman
Musicman, again you have some thought-provoking comments. It does seem to be the case that we in SRF are reluctant to use critical and objective thinking in far too many instances. As far as I can tell, this failure doesn’t stem from the teachings: Yogananda often urges critical thinking and objective analysis. It’s interesting to observe how his precepts have not been translated into action.

As far as I can tell, and as others have mentioned before, it seems that this almost unconscious opposition to critical thinking comes from those in leadership positions (whatever positions those might be from SRF president to leader of a group of ushers) whose insecurities won’t allow them to examine their beliefs or positions. As well, these leaders have an innate and almost subconscious mistrust of others, including other devotees. “I can’t allow John to do this or to think that because he doesn’t understand and I know better and I’m trying to protect/help/guide him.” This is a sort of compilation of the thoughts I think may occur. The leader forgets (or is afraid to admit) that John is just as much a child of God (or as intelligent and worthy of respect) as he is, and that he probably doesn’t need the leader’s protection/guidance/help. Sadly, the leader is incapable of realizing that everyone would be better off if John’s input was sought after, appreciated, respected, and considered objectively and fairly. Instead of dealing constructively with reality, as Sri Daya Mata suggests on her “A Heart Aflame” tape, we get people who report problems being transformed into the problem itself, as both you and AumBoy alluded to.

It’s that old fear, fear, fear (which leads to deny, deny, deny). And the hierarchy you mentioned allows this to happen, so that all those lower down are mistrusted by those above, and those below get caught up in the dynamic and think that they don’t have any worthy thoughts or aren’t required to think. The whole process, being largely unconsious, is subtle and requires constant vigilance to prevent it from becoming dominant.

I don’t know that the spiritual system of Kriya is to blame as not being effective. Rather, I think it is more a lack of a balance which allows the use of the spiritual techniques and a concomitant appreciation and application of critical self-analysis that must be ongoing. This is the scientific approach: are the techniques and teachings working (by whatever criteria), are we behaving morally, are our organizational structures supportive of all that is noble in humanity. One of the saddest things I’m seeing in some parts of the SRF community is an unwillingness or inability to engage in thoughtful discussion and critical analysis without falling into shouting matches, name-calling, and other such “unlovely” behaviors. We need to realize, as Yogananda said, that our critics can be our best allies.

I think we in SRF haven’t done enough to promote such listening, discussion and analysis, possibly because we think there’s nothing to discuss (everything’s complete and perfect, right?). We need to do far more at all levels to encourage open, courteous, thoughtful discussion. And if the leaders won’t do it, then we should “take it to them,” asking questions, demanding answers, analyzing whatever needs to be examined, always with a respectful, courteous attitude (and with righteous indignation when this is warranted).

This is why I posted the message about the crisis in the Catholic Church. When there is no effective dialogue, priests end up as abusers (or abusers become priests). When there is no effective dialogue, abused children have no where to turn and suffer in silence. When there is no effective dialogue, the Church denies, dissembles, and deflects when others bring light onto the problem. When there is no effective dialogue, the Catholic Cardinal even tries to bring down God’s wrath (literally!) on the Boston Globe, which brought many of the stories to light (talk about shooting the messanger!), instead of realizing he had to deal with the issue.

Same for us in SRF. Without effective dialogue...[insert the problem of your choosing]. At some point, whether now or ten years from now, there is going to have to be effective dialogue that honors critiquing of any and all aspects of SRF’s mission.

Sacred Lovemaker
Unregistered User
(3/10/02 12:35 pm)
Reply 		After the Kriya practice
The refinement of the nervous system through the practice of Kriya seems to be real in my opinion. Anandamoy is a linear thinker. He has said that Kriya works like mathematics and certainly the "mechanistic" / energetic aspects of it do produce results.

But, if one practices the technique of Kriya successfully without employing the gained experience in positive creative expansion and utilization of conciousness, then one may become merely a sensitive radar dish which may pick up any higher power. Some of those higher powers are not godly, and one might accidently think they are because of the exalted feeling.

E=mc2 ... formula for good or evil? Depends HOW it is used.

Sacred Lovemaker
Unregistered User
(3/10/02 1:00 pm)
Reply 		extending that idea
"postive utilization of conciousness" in this instance means "positive expression of consciousness"

Naturally we roam down a subjective road at this point.

At every point in time, you confront life and make choices from the center of consciousness you have. It does not follow that your present state of consciousness automatically guarantees consistent "right" choices. That is for you to decide.

What I believe is, as the consciousness gains certain experiences, those experiences become part of the "vocabulary" of choices open to the yogi. The vocabulary may expand, but that does not guarantee the yogi will utilize that vocabulary to manifest absolute goodness.

Think of it this way: Think of a person whom you believe to have superceeded in consciousness. For example, a neighbor told me that she survived a childhood in the Appalachian mountains among "relatives" who perpetually molested and beat her as well as kidnapped and possibly killed other children. I am certain my consciousness is more evolved than theirs.

...Now, does that mean I am perfect? exempt from greed? anger? selfishness? or desires? No. But I am aware of more choices than they are. I clearly have the choice and freedom to be as evil as they are, but I wouldn't, having glimpsed the higher potential of love and its sacred joys. They are stuck in a narrow channel, so they act instictlvely like sick animals. Still, with all my transcendance and Kriya practice, I contend with the eight meannesses of the heart as I believe the so-called exalted yogis on the top of the SRF food chain do.

Maybe that's why we have only one "master"

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