Original purpose - www.ezboard.com

>

SRF Walrus

Mt. Washington, Ca

Open discussions about SRF

SRF Walrus > I need advice > Original purpose
	<< Prev Topic \| Next Topic >>

Author	Comment
willy1080 Registered User (4/15/02 7:29 am) Reply	Original purpose There is a interesting anecdote I came across in a book on Ramana Maharshi. It seems quite relevant to what we are going through with Kriya yoga ? *Quote:* It is inevitable, I suppose, that in an ashram some people will end up quarrelling with others. It is also inevitable that outsiders will find some pretext to quarrel with the ashram. Sri Bhagavan ( Ramana Maharshi) taught us all to stay away from disputes that were none of our business, and in particular, to avoid taking an interest in matters that were solely the concern of the ashram management. Once, for example, some awkward problems concerning the ashram management cropped up. Without being directly concerned, I was worried about them, as I felt that failure to solve them satisfactorily would impair the good name of the ashram. One day two or three devotees went to Sri Bhagavan and put some of these problems before him. I happened to enter the hall while they were talking about them, and he immediately turned to me and asked me why I had come in at this time and why I was interesting myself in such matters. I did not grasp the meaning of the question, so Sri Bhagavan explained that a person should occupy himself only with that purpose with which he had originally come to the ashram. He asked me what my original purpose had been. "To receive Sri Bhagavan's grace," I replied. "Then occupy yourself with that alone," he said. After a pause he continued by asking me whether I had any interest in matters concerning the ashram management when I first arrived. I told him that I had not. Then,' he said, 'concentrate on the original purpose of your coming here.' from Power of Presence, Part II by David Godman Can we share thoughts on this ? Edited by: willy1080 at: 4/15/02 7:32:10 am
username Registered User (4/15/02 3:03 pm) Reply	Re: Original purpose They weren't brainwashing people at the discussed center.
aumguru Registered User (4/16/02 8:36 am) Reply	Re: Original purpose There are two ways you could look at this story. One is that all of the people complaining about the management of SRF should stick to their original purpose for coming to SRF, which was probably to find God. If you ignore the fact that most of the people here are not 'outsiders', which this story is about, then you might think this story applies to those who are complaining. But then, what does that mean for those who have ended up in the management of SRF (from the BOD down)? Does this mean that those who are (mis)guiding the organization shouldn't be in charge, since they too originally came seeking God? Maybe that's why there are such problems with the management of Master's organization- these people shouldn't be in charge. Or, were those people put in charge because they came to SRF not seeking God, but seeking to be administrators and managers? If that's the case, then again, maybe that's why there are such problems with the management of Master's organization, since it's in the hands of managers, not God-seekers. I don't think this story really applies to people here, but it does raise some interesting questions.
chuckle chela Registered User (4/16/02 5:25 pm) Reply	Re: Original purpose The issue is where does one's concern and responsibility lie. One the basis of this anecdote are we to assume that we shouldn't do anything about the problems in SRF because the SRF leaders are looking after them? Are we to assume that the sufferings of others are not our responsibility? that we have no moral obligation to be involved in some way? The issue, to put it in the words of the story, is: are the problems our business? My answer is that the SRF problems are each devotee's business, insofar as he has the mental and moral capacity to respond. The sufferings of others are our moral obligation; we are our brother's keepers. Again, using the story line, I would argue that to receive "Bhagavan's [God's] grace," it is necessary to be aware of and act to relieve the sufferings of others. At a minimum, we have an obligation to be aware of what's going on, to think of the moral consequences of our own and others' behaviors, and then to respond as we see fit. Having said that, in general it is important to know where one's business lies. There indeed are many situations, such as illustrated in this story, where one has no business being involved. I feel an obligation to involve myself in the SRF issues because the behaviors and actions of the SRF leaders as well as the organizational setup of SRF have consequences for all SRF members and even for those outside SRF. Also, my donations have been used to make SRF what it is today. Look what has happened in the Catholic Church recently. Many sincere Catholics, even if they knew of abusive situations, left the issues in the hands of the Bishops and Cardinals; after all, these leaders would deal with the problems, that was their role. Those leaders burned the parishioners badly (not to mention the abused children), and I think you'd find the vast majority of Catholics now saying this problem of the sexual abuse is indeed their business. Aumguru, you made a great comment about those in leadership roles now being conscious of their "original purpose." Right on!
aVulcanThinker Registered User (4/19/02 7:57 am) Reply	Re: Original purpose There is another aspect to this that has been missed, not surprisingly since it doesn't apply to very many. Some are in the position of having been asked by person(s) in authority to make suggestions, or to help with a certain situation, or to "fix" something "broken." It is these people who are generally treated the worst, when they actually do point out what needs to change. I actually believe that we are our brothers' keepers, so that the points mentioned above do apply. If one is a member of an organization--as SRF makes very plain in the Kriya pledge--then one is associated with all the actions taken in the name of that organization, and to some degree responsible for them, unless and until one severs one's ties. But, in addition to that, we need to understand that even those with formal authority, when they attempt to address any of the various core issues so accurately listed on this board, are viciously slandered and driven out of their home, figuratively and literally.
X Insider Registered User (4/20/02 7:40 am) Reply	Re: Original purpose Right you are. As someone has written about on the board, the consultants SRF hired to help stem the tide of discontent were unceremoniously un-hired (SRF didn't tell them they were fired, they did it the SRF way by not saying anything). The work they began was far too threatening for those in deep denial and those on the road to power within the current hierarchy. Instead of changing, SRF now tries to screen ashram applicants for undesirable traits before they can make trouble. Applicants now get to take MMPI! God know who interprets the results. Let the psychologists on the tell you more about this test. ." Another good joke (you have to laugh to stay sane) is the lip service paid by Vishwananda about working out a more equitable program for monastics who serve for some time and leave -- i.e., a model based on reality rather than on the current shame and fear cult-mode, such as a half-way house, educational endowment, etc. This purported project died in its tracks and all remains as it has been. Monastics planning to leave still sneak around, keep their plans as secret as they can and agonize about asking for compensation and donated dishes gathering dust in storage. They know full well the Board really considers them either traitors (those who have had high status within the ashram) or simply not evolved enough to take it (the "young ones.") But let's face it, folks. The vast majority of SRF members love the propaganda and the smiling faces in ochre cloth. They are getting what they pay for. And a few devotees like Chuckle Chela who want to look at the truth won't make a bit of difference. Until SRF gets hit in the pocketbook like the Catholics and is profiled by legitimate, respected journalists all will be reassuringly, lullingly, the same. And they will love it. Because life without SRF has become unthinkable for them.
chuckle chela Registered User (4/30/02 10:23 pm) Reply	Some thoughts for a Vulcan thinker and X Insider & Wily A few comments. I hope, Wily 1080, that you�ve gotten the feedback you were hoping for. I�d be interested in your thoughts. I think the Vulcan thinker makes a valuable point: when the organization is ignoring and silencing and criticizing the very ones whose job it is to provide feedback, then you know you�ve got serious problems. While the SRF leaders might argue that �ordinary� lay members shouldn�t or needn�t be involved in these issues, when they start slandering and driving out those they asked to critique or whose job it is to be concerned about these issues, then you�re dealing with a potentially dangerous organization. The use of the MMPI or other personality inventories doesn�t surprise me. In and of itself the careful and considered use of such tools can be valuable (although such tests can be misused even by those with good intentions, and the MMPI has its share of detractors). For example, you wouldn�t want people who are paranoid coming into the ashram environment, and the MMPI or other such tests can help identify people with such tendencies. (Yes, I can hear the fizzing of the irony meters. I�m sorry I caused them to redline in the �beyond extreme irony� range. After writing about screening people with paranoid tendencies, I realized the incredible irony and began howling with laughter. I hope I�ve at least brought a smile, however rueful, to your day. So�do you think the BOD and other senior monastics have had to take the MMPI? Wouldn�t that be interesting?). But this testing begs the question: for whose benefit are they doing the testing. Is it for the monastics� and potential monastics� best interests, or is it as I suspect, for the sole interests of SRF, Inc.? I remain boggled at the treatment of those monastics who leave the ashram. If I recall correctly (and this goes back to the 70s), my reading of the �Give Me Thy Heart� booklet led me to believe that it wasn�t until you took your final vows and became a Brother or Sister that you promised to live as a renunciant in the SRF ashrams for the rest of your life. So, you�d think that postulants, novices, and Brahmachari(ni)s who decided to leave would be, at a minimum, understood, assisted, and thanked for their years of dedicated, selfless service. And, as you alluded, helped in the transition to a nonmonastic life (and this should even apply to those who took final vows and later changed their minds; nobody�s perfect, and I�m not aware of any other monastic orders that treat their exes so shabbily, although there probably are some). Geez, didn�t you guys all have to give rather substantial dowries when you entered the ashram? If I�m not mistaken, SRF now asks for dowries amounting to over $10,000. The treatment of departing monastics by both the organization and some lay members goes beyond callous. It can only be described as cruel. Alas, as time goes on I suspect you�re right that those of us who are concerned won�t make much difference. Walrus (or anyone else), do you get any indication that any sort of activism is emerging out of the Walrus board? I realize it has fulfilled and is fulfilling a number of valuable roles, but I�m wondering if any concerted, integrated efforts are in the offing. Our individual efforts�letters, speaking to ministers, withholding donations�while morally correct will probably have little or no effect, beyond getting us blacklisted, unless there are thousands of us. The Walrus has mentioned that there have been thousands of hits to the site. Whether this will translate into a sufficient number of devotees who are willing to, for example, suspend giving donations so that a significant drop in income for SRF results remains to be seen. Ultimately, I think it will take a drop in income to cause the SRF leaders to take notice. Regarding media exposure, the only two respected outlets I can think of would be the LA Times and Yoga Journal. I don�t know whether the LA Times would be interested. The Yoga Journal would probably be interested, but they�d require convincing: if I�m not mistaken, SRF is a regular advertiser. In the case of either outlet, a number of ex-monastics and employees and members would need to come forward. It would present challenges since the media wouldn�t want just anonymous sources and the ex-monastics in particular wouldn�t be able to divulge their identities for fear of legal reprisals. A lawsuit was mentioned in another thread. This could draw the needed media attention, but, as Pig Ma pointed out, it could have undesirable consequences. If there is a former monastic who is currently suing SRF (as was alluded), the media�s attention could be drawn to this. I get the impression, though, that many who�ve been burned and have come to the Walrus have simply moved on and have left SRF far behind; they couldn�t care less what happens or doesn�t happen to SRF. I�m deeply saddened (and somewhat frightened) to think that most SRF members wouldn�t or couldn�t look behind the curtain, but it seems to be the case. To think that we could ignore the sufferings of others is saddening, even though I understand the psychology. In the end are we going to have to admit that SRF failed in its attempts to raise its members above the ordinary? Edited by: chuckle chela at: 4/30/02 10:24:53 pm
crogman24 Registered User (5/1/02 6:44 am) Reply	Re: Some thoughts for a Vulcan thinker and X Insider & W I believe that Master is going to take care of "correcting" his organization. The pitiful crew just promoted by Mother Center is evidence that the correction is not far off. I suspect SRF is going to be much smaller in the next 10 to 20 years. The mistaken belief that SRF is the new Catholic Church is not the direction God and Master intend! See pub78.ezboard.com/fsrfwal...=100.topic Recent promotions: pub78.ezboard.com/fsrfwal...D=32.topic
AumBoy Registered User (5/1/02 7:37 pm) Reply ezSupporter	Re: Some thoughts for a Vulcan thinker and X Insider & W The MMPI testing is only for new applicants, not existing persons. It would be too embarrassing for the organization. The testing is to protect the organization not the applicant. With some of the spiritual life committee work and the consultants that were hired, SRF realized that there were serious potential problems that existed. Yes, many have moved on, Chuckle Chela. Some don't even do Kriya anymore. I don't blame them. Some are in counseling, too. As to stopping donations, SRF is in a financial pinch now. I do not know why but I don't think SRF understands why. I do not think they would really understand the posts on this board and how to really communicate. They are protecting the teachings and the Guru's organization. They may not be able to see further than that. Such is life.
aumguru Registered User (5/3/02 9:38 am) Reply	Re: Some thoughts for a Vulcan thinker and X Insider & W *Quote:* As to stopping donations, SRF is in a financial pinch now. Aumboy, how is this possible? I've always thought that their arrogance is based, in part, on the fact that they don't need the members and their money. Thus they can treat members however they want. I've heard (speculation only) that the SRF assets run into the hundreds of millions, maybe more. Is that not true? Does anyone here know?
Daya Yama Registered User (6/22/02 10:29 am) Reply	Newcomer infallibility after serious disappointments? Preserving oneself is a good aim too, and not to be overlooked and forgotten. As it is pointed out elsewhere, too strict ascetism fails, and if one forgets the aim of educating oneself, one goes amiss in one significant way as well. In trying to favour others, being called a complainer or worse, or perhaps blacklisted, there ARE worse aims than preserving oneself. Daya Yama
A voice in the supermarket Registered User (1/14/03 9:58 am) Reply	Re: Newcomer infallibility after serious disappointments? Right, Daya. A voice in the supermarket

<< Prev Topic | Next Topic >>

Add Reply

Email This To a Friend

Email This To a Friend
Topic Control Image

Topic Control Image

Click to receive email notification of replies

Click to stop receiving email notification of replies

jump to:

- SRF Walrus - I need advice -

Powered By ezboard� Ver. 7.32
Copyright �1999-2005 ezboard, Inc.